It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

Byrdie714 said:
Uh....kids do get into fights at school.
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I've had my share of fights

To be honest I have been into more fights in a mainstreamed school than I have been in a deaf school. :hmm:
 
Byrdie714 said:
I think it's because some of us still have concerns about the CI's.

For an example: what if you daughter gets into a fight with another girl and she rips out the CI? Then what?
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You can't rip out the internal parts of the CI. You can possible knock off the processor and do some damage to the outer parts, but that's it. The most damage that will occur is probably financial. If warranties run out, you'll have to pay for replacements.

The only way you're going to damage the internal peice is if the person takes a direct hit right over where the magnet is and it would have to be ONE HELL of a hit to damage it. It's unlikely to happen, though. You're not going to do that kind of damage in a fight; especially if the fighters are two 5-6 yrs olds.
 
Daredevel7 said:
This thread is not really about why CI is awesome/not so awesome, but rather how and why hearing/deaf people reject each other. However, you and Buffalo just showed a perfect example of rejecting each other. Buffalo "rejected" faire jour for her actions towards the child because she feels that a surgery on a baby is not worth the risk especially when she has seen deaf people thrive without CI. Faire jour, in another thread, has noticed that people are giving her shit for implanting her child, and Buffalo is one of them, so Buffalo added fuel to the fire, even though s/he is simply showing his/her own opinion in a diplomatic way. Parents (hearing or not) are more sensitive about their choices towards a child, so several comments from a community about how they think that the parents are doing the "wrong thing" may be enough for the parents to reject the community. (Not faire though because she IS teaching her child ASL and plans to make the deaf community a big part of her daughters life.)
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My recent post in here is not aimed at Faire Jour but at the general hearing people whose aim is to "restore" hearing to the deaf people. If you look thru my old posts, you will see that I don't think CI is worth the risk because of the deaths caused indirectly by CI surgeries. One death is too many for me, especially when it happened to an infant/child. In combination with what I've read - "When the Mind Hears" by Harlan Lane talked of Dr. Itard, in early 19th century, attempted to find a way to restore hearing to the deaf students, some of the students had died under his care - also the eugenics movement - they all are telling me that they view deaf people as subhuman and something like lab rats. That is why I think the deaf community is reacting to whatever the hearing people are doing to the deaf community. I have heard of "deaf militants" but I don't hear of "hearing militants" at all and I know there are such as hearing militants. I don't like the fact that whatever the label is on the deaf, it is very negative but when there is a label on the hearing, it is not negative.

It seems to me that the hearing people want CI for their deaf child even there is a slim possiblity of death. That is what I can't fathom. I just am tired of all that abuses coming from the hearing people in form of poor education, total lack or near lack of family relationships, no promotions or very few promotions in one's job, heath insurance refusals (Some health insurers have turned me down as they think I would ask for CI and then drop the insurance after the surgery) and so on. All because they don't accept ASL as a solution. I want the abuses stopped for good. I want the hearing people see the deaf people as real humans and that ASL is the solution - not only for the deaf but for the hearing also, especially when the hearing person lose bit of hearing in old age. I am tired of all that misery at the hands of hearing people. I am tired of hearing people thinking that they are helping us via CI and the likes but they are actually made things much worse. I am just fed up with the stituation the hearing people put us in.
 
faire_jour said:
I do not desire to turn my child "hearing" but I do want her to have access to sound. Because she is progressivly becoming profoundly deaf, a CI is the only way. I have no idea why it is "barbaric" to want my child to be able to hear a fire alarm or a car coming up behind her.
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I have heard of hearing people sleeping thru fire alarm and being run over by a car.
 
Buffalo said:
My recent post in here is not aimed at Faire Jour but at the general hearing people whose aim is to "restore" hearing to the deaf people. If you look thru my old posts, you will see that I don't think CI is worth the risk because of the deaths caused indirectly by CI surgeries.
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Yes, you're reinforcing what I'm saying. You are "rejecting" the hearing parents who are implanting their child because you don't think its worth the risk, among the many other reasons you just stated. Same thing as hearing parents rejecting you for implying that they are wrong to do this to their own child. And it's possible that they consider "you" to be a representative of the Deaf community, especially if this happens only a few times from other people.
 
Buffalo said:
My recent post in here is not aimed at Faire Jour but at the general hearing people whose aim is to "restore" hearing to the deaf people. If you look thru my old posts, you will see that I don't think CI is worth the risk because of the deaths caused indirectly by CI surgeries. One death is too many for me, especially when it happened to an infant/child. In combination with what I've read - "When the Mind Hears" by Harlan Lane talked of Dr. Itard, in early 19th century, attempted to find a way to restore hearing to the deaf students, some of the students had died under his care - also the eugenics movement - they all are telling me that they view deaf people as subhuman and something like lab rats. That is why I think the deaf community is reacting to whatever the hearing people are doing to the deaf community. I have heard of "deaf militants" but I don't hear of "hearing militants" at all and I know there are such as hearing militants. I don't like the fact that whatever the label is on the deaf, it is very negative but when there is a label on the hearing, it is not negative.

It seems to me that the hearing people want CI for their deaf child even there is a slim possiblity of death. That is what I can't fathom. I just am tired of all that abuses coming from the hearing people in form of poor education, total lack or near lack of family relationships, no promotions or very few promotions in one's job, heath insurance refusals (Some health insurers have turned me down as they think I would ask for CI and then drop the insurance after the surgery) and so on. All because they don't accept ASL as a solution. I want the abuses stopped for good. I want the hearing people see the deaf people as real humans and that ASL is the solution - not only for the deaf but for the hearing also, especially when the hearing person lose bit of hearing in old age. I am tired of all that misery at the hands of hearing people. I am tired of hearing people thinking that they are helping us via CI and the likes but they are actually made things much worse. I am just fed up with the stituation the hearing people put us in.
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There has never been a death from a CI, but there has from meningitis. It is still exceedingly rare. I think the risk is individual, and needs to be evaluated by each doctor and family. My daughter is very low risk because of the reason for her deafness and her medical history. Other children have much higher risks because of physical abnormalities linked with their hearing loss.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Yes, you're reinforcing what I'm saying. You are "rejecting" the hearing parents who are implanting their child because you don't think its worth the risk, among the many other reasons you just stated. Same thing as hearing parents rejecting you for implying that they are wrong to do this to their own child. And it's possible that they consider "you" to be a representative of the Deaf community, especially if this happens only a few times from other people.
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You are exactly right. If this is all the parents hear from the Deaf community they are going to feel pushed away. They are going to feel judged and unwelcome, and they are going to choose to not associate with the Deaf community.
So far on this thread there are at least 2 people rejecting hearing parents. How many does it have to be to be considered wide spread?
 
faire_jour said:
There has never been a death from a CI, but there has from meningitis. It is still exceedingly rare.
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I said "deaths caused indirectly by CI surgeries" which included meningitis. I didn't said directly from a CI but indirectly by CI surgeries. Any injury to the head either by accident or by surgery can lead to meningitis. So yes there are deaths from CI indirectly.
 
Buffalo said:
I said "deaths caused indirectly by CI surgeries" which included meningitis. I didn't said directly from a CI but indirectly by CI surgeries. Any injury to the head either by accident or by surgery can lead to meningitis.
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I just wanted things to be perfectly clear, there are many people with misinformation.
 
Good start of a thread...
Of course the answer is "No". But not because all of the examples you lay out about how hearing parents are behaving... That view is very one-sided..

The statements you make regarding hearing parents basically point where according to you the problem is.. With those parents.
Basically, you don't really ask a question, you accuse..

But, that's fine... still a good start....
 
faire_jour said:
You are exactly right. If this is all the parents hear from the Deaf community they are going to feel pushed away. They are going to feel judged and unwelcome, and they are going to choose to not associate with the Deaf community.
So far on this thread there are at least 2 people rejecting hearing parents. How many does it have to be to be considered wide spread?
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There you go. The hearing people have judged us and made us feel very unwelcome. There are some who abused the deaf people legally by putting a knife on some of us - eugenically or CI. No wonder, there are many deaf people who prefer to hang out with only deaf people. There are far more of hearing militants than there are of deaf militants. I consider doctors who suggest CI and no ASL to be part of the hearing militants. The number of deaf militants are peanuts compared to the hearing militants and will always be because of our small number of deaf people worldwide. All you are focusing is the number of the deaf militants, nevermind our feelings on oralism, CI, etc.
 
Buffalo said:
There you go. The hearing people have judged us and made us feel very unwelcome. There are some who abused the deaf people legally by putting a knife on some of us - eugenically or CI.
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There you go. "There are some who abused the deaf people legally by putting a knife on some of us" ... that kind of rhetoric is what is causing much friction.
Nobody is forcing CI against the will... For the youngest children, the parents take the decision. It is not forced against the will of the child...
That could only happen if the child is old enough to realise the procedure & implication.

Buffalo said:
No wonder, there are many deaf people who prefer to hang out with only deaf people. There are far more of hearing militants than there are of deaf militants. I consider doctors who suggest CI and no ASL to be part of the hearing militants. The number of deaf militants are peanuts compared to the hearing militants and will always be because of our small number of deaf people worldwide. All you are focusing is the number of the deaf militants, nevermind our feelings on oralism, CI, etc.
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Keep in mind that most hearing people don't have any contact with d/Deaf people, let alone a view of them.
I would say all deaf people have a view towards hearing people.
 
Buffalo said:
There you go. The hearing people have judged us and made us feel very unwelcome. There are some who abused the deaf people legally by putting a knife on some of us - eugenically or CI. No wonder, there are many deaf people who prefer to hang out with only deaf people. There are far more of hearing militants than there are of deaf militants. I consider doctors who suggest CI and no ASL to be part of the hearing militants. The number of deaf militants are peanuts compared to the hearing militants and will always be because of our small number of deaf people worldwide. All you are focusing is the number of the deaf militants, nevermind our feelings on oralism, CI, etc.
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But noone says that you must send time with those hearing people. You are not forced to spend time with a CI surgeon, hearing parents, however, are being told that they are bad parents if they do not integrate into the Deaf community.
 
jillio said:
I get where you are going. Leaning toward the new and different technology in an attempt to correct is also an attempt to prevent having to embrace a new and different way of life?
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When parents find out their child is deaf... that's the start of a new life.
No matter what choices are made.

Think about these choices:
A: Choosing for the child to be able to hear, so it can communicate fully in the already established circle of friends and family, having full access to their mode of communication.
B: Choosing for the child to stay deaf, so it cannot communicate with the established circle of friends, family, having limited acces AND looking for a new circle, totally separate from the established ones, where communication can be established, with a totally new language.
 
Cloggy said:
When parents find out their child is deaf... that's the start of a new life.
No matter what choices are made.

Think about these choices:
A: Choosing for the child to be able to hear, so it can communicate fully in the already established circle of friends and family, having full access to their mode of communication.
B: Choosing for the child to stay deaf, so it cannot communicate with the established circle of friends, family, having limited acces AND looking for a new circle, totally separate from the established ones, where communication can be established, with a totally new language.
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or C....circle of friends and family can learn sign language and make it an adventure. Is that a big no no?
 
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