Homeschooling

[Liebling:-)))]

I've been catching up on some reading here. For the sake of clarity, I thought I'd post a specific link to a site that talks about outcome-based education (thanks codger for reminding me of that).

http://www.theriver.com/Public/tucson_parents_edu_forum/obe1.html

It's a bit long, but definitely worth the read, if you have the time and interest.

wow, it's soooo long pages... I had the feeling that it's interesting information so I printed them today for evening reading.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Each family sets up a program to fit their needs.
As one example, each child has an assignment appropriate to age and grade level. They can do their work individually, or sometimes the older kids can tutor the younger ones. Sometimes they work in one room, or sometimes separate rooms. Sometimes they work individually at the computer, or do independent research at the library. There are many different ways to set up a program. I know many home school families, and each one had a system that fit the specific needs of that family.

In early America, the one-room school house for all grade levels was common.

In the 1920-30s, My dad attended a one-room rural school house through high school. One teacher for all the kids, every age, every grade. After graduation, he worked for the Navy as a civilian, installing special equipment in submarines. When WWII started, he enlisted in the Navy. Because he had a rare technical skill that the Navy needed, he enlisted as an E-4 (not E-1), was issued his uniform, and reported for duty. He was not even sent to boot camp. At the end of the war, he was an E-6. The Navy offered him an officer commission as Ltjg if he wanted to stay in, but he declined. Instead, he went to college and got his four-year degree in two years, in electrical engineering (his name is posted in that engineering college's "Hall of Fame"). He worked for Bell Labs (and has patents for his inventions), Lockheed, NASA, and various Navy departments.

I only say all that to show that a student can get an excellant education even in one humble room with kids of all ages mixed together. The students were poor and barefooted in overalls. No computers or high tech equipment. Only one teacher. But they were taught the fundamentals of their subjects, and they were taught how to study and be self-disciplined. After that, they could learn any subject they took up in college.

My dad was not a special exception. Many, many of our country's best scientists, doctors, writers, entrepreneurs, etc., came from that same kind of background. Many of my friends home schooled their children, and the children went on to college, military, or successful jobs, same as other kids do.



It depends on the situation. I can't give an example for each family. But even government school teachers get pregnant or sick. They can get subs, and home school parents can get subs too.


Parents don't teach their children "ALL THE DAY". A home school day doesn't require as many hours per day as a government school. The mom isn't sitting for six hours a day in a room with the kids. Home schoolers don't need time for commuting to school, no car-pooling, taking attendance, getting the lunch orders, handing out papers, sending notes home to parents, parent/teacher conferences, etc. While the kids are doing their assignments, mom can throw the laundry in the washer, make phone calls, cook supper, etc. She is still there to answer questions, but she can also do other things at the same time. No big deal.


That's fine. I said, home schooling is not for everyone. If you don't want to home school, no one will force you. If you are satisfied with your kids' school, then that is great. I am not trying to persuade you to home school, no way. I am just saying that if other families want to home school, they should be allowed. I don't want anyone to force you to home school, and I don't want anyone to force other families to use government schools. I think that is fair.

I understand and thank you for share your information with us here. I understand and respect you.
Yes, I'm satisfied and happy with my children's school system. I would do something if I'm not happy with it. I learn something more from American information which it's new to me.
Thank you again.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I am not saying that home schooling is the solution for everyone. That is why I think the government should allow parents to chose the best way to educate their children. I don't believe parents should leave their children in bad schools. Parents should be allowed to remove their children from schools that don't meet their needs. If a parent doesn't care, then yes, that is negligence. If a parent just uses any school for a "baby-sitting service", then that is negligent.

I understand but I'm surprised that the government in your country is not allow to let the parents to choose which school they want for their children's education.
I'm not agree to this because it's parents who choose school what they want for their children, not government.
I can look any school if I want to if I'm not happy with my kids's school.

Government schools and home schooling are not the only two options.

I know but I see the different.

That is not always the situation in the U.S. Many children are bused away from their neighborhoods and forced to attend government schools that are farther away. Because the government wants to "balance" the student racial percentages in schools, they bus kids to far-away schools instead of allowing the kids to attend the schools that are near their houses.

It's really sad.

re: my other post that explains about home schooling doesn't require all day.

Yes, I read your earlier post. It got me understand but I feel it is still burden for the parent. IMO.

That is why I support tax credits for parents who home school or use private schools. That would reduce some of the financial burden for parents.

Yes, it's same with Germany, too.

Parents do need to inform themselves, look at the curriculum, visit the school, attend the meetings, etc.

True but I cant say anything more because I didnt know anything about this. Let American answer what they think about your opinion.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I am not familiar with "ecomincal" school. Can you please explain what that is? Sorry, I don't know about the German school system.

Thank you for asking me.

Yes, I know that Germany school system is too different from English countries.

There're different translation for "Wirtschaftsschule". I thought it's Economics because German word is "Wirtschaftlich" until I found it from a large English/German dictonary. It says "Business school"/"School of Economics"/"School of business" but I has the feeling that the translation about "business" school is not right so I search "Wirtschaftsschule" into English link but it's not easy to find but I found right word at last.

http://learning.dada.at/res/pdf/ESCHOOL1.PDF

It says that it's almost similar as "Realschule" (Secondary school)

Wirtschaftsschule: In Bavaria, a school type as an alternvative to Realschule (Secondary school) with a more economic/techanical orientation.

Here explain about German school system:

http://library.thinkquest.org/10388/school.htm#uwhat

You see that my both sons have different teachers daily.

Here is career development over school system in Germany:
Career Development
http://www.ed.gov/pubs/GermanCaseStudy/chapter3a1.html

and also teacher skills, too.

This is German link but I cant find English link for "Wirtschaftsschule" (School of Economics/School of Business) from 7th Grade. That's what my son want to go this September. He will have test again this May to see either he is fit to go there this September or not.
http://www.wirtschaftsschule.de/indextest.htm

The German Education System (teacher skills are also mentioned in those link, too).

http://www.land.salzburg.at/htblha/cyber/GERMAN.HTM


I know Germany school system is different from English countries that's why I'm interesting to learn anything about America life, that's how I'm here to learn alot from Magastu's information threads..... some is same and some is not same.

I thought to myself that I would like to share German informations with you here. I thought you would interesting to know what German school system alike.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A little bit, topic point out:

I am intriguing if Germany offers English class for your sons at the public school or High School?

High School, they do offer foreign languages. Most Spanish language required because of popular Spanish in this area.

I know, Hong Kong school requires English class because of Chinese people tend to come to America for their colleges.

Really, interesting!

Yes, there're English course in public school where my sons attend to.

My first son start to learn English at 5th Grade in school, that's time the old principal was around.
New principal comes at 2 years ago after old principal pension, they offer English course at 3rd grade instead of 5th grade, that's where my 2nd son learn since last September 2004. We (parents) are for it. It start last September 2004 at 3rd grade.

Public school (Primary school) require only English course. If the children want to learn French then go to grammar school or Secondary school from 5th Grade. They offer only English and French course.

As far as I know that German school require only English and French. I will find out more about foregin languages and will back with answer. I will ask my son about this when I'm home from work.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Sorry Reba, I forget to add more of my response post to your post.

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=285422&postcount=86

Wirtschaftsschule (business school/school of Economics) from 7th grade for:
economics,
law,
management studies etc.
financial
business
budget etc.
accountance
English
French (only voluntary)
sport
cook
computer
Scentist
German,
English

Gymanasium school (Grammar school) from 5th grade:
for different list (check link) like
doctor, dentist, Scientist, French/English languages, latin, music
more etc etc.. check that link

Realschulen (Secondary school)
Salemen, lawyer, bank, English course, etc..etc... check link

primary school for everything like normal school
English
math.
German
craftswork
sport
scientist
labor
etc etc etc like what I said at an earlier post.

German dont have college like English countries after school-leaving but training course or job education up to 3 years. Up to them if they want Unvitersity after 3 years course. If German dont want training course or job education but go straight to University after Grammar school.

All what Government support the children with school system like this.

If the children who are brainy then go to grammar school which it´s very good education but very hard education.

If the children goes well with their school report then go to Realschule (Secondary school) or Wirtschaftsschule (Business school) after end of 4th grade.

That´s all what I know and check link if you are interesting.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Sabrina,

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=285424&postcount=87

I learn from my co-worker who has 18 years old son. She explained that the government support the children with foreign course is English and French only.

If the student want more than just English and French course then they have to pay by their own pocket or get support from their parents to attend evening school. If their course in evening school prove the government greatly for their future then they support them fully because they need student for policities, etc.

Here in Germany dont have high school like america. See my post to Reba with link. It´s different school system as English countries.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Why do you think Germany is different????

What you have written above sounds like the basic minimum anywhere for teachers!!!!

Go and check link where I response Reba if you are still interesting. If not, then is not my problem. Everyone would interesting to know what school system in different countries alike.

If you dont like then dont have to post it.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Ok, I highlighted one word in a conversation I thought was important. I don't see anyone else carry on about it being screaming and if it is why escalate it by screaming back?????

You dont have to scream me with red mark to get my attention because I can read every posts.

Well for your information, I KNOW what I'm TALKING about TOO.

And then...

This post was made long before any of this stupidity started

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=283745&postcount=29

This post was made long before any of this stupidity started and it also explains how home schooling works in Aust if you look at the links. Home schooling is very important in the outback where distances between farms can take hours of driving and it is just too far too take children to school unless you go to boarding school. It used to be called schooling by radio until the internet got popular. It is run from one school for a large outback area.

And....?

You told me about this years ago. You responsed my interesting questions because of your large country in 2000/01. The example over the house where the family live is middle between 100 or more miles which it´s impossible for the children travel to school everyday is a logically. You explained me that the children has to listen teacher´s voice thru radio when they start their lesson at home. How could I forget that? Up to AD members either they answer your post or not.

Your link is complete logically because Australia is a large country. Why should I disagree with you for? Did I say that I am disagree with your link of your country? Please go back and check where I am against your post? Nope. All what I saw and remember your story years ago is total logically true.

Well, we are here to share our discussion what we are agree to disagree BECAUSE our countries are not similar as your country. We can travel to school everyday with bus or walk but your country is a different. As what I see your link that you only compare your link with our countries. Nobody are against you and your link but respect you for that. You has no reason to jump and scream on me with red mark because I dont support homeschooling and have different school system in Germany. Please respect it, thank you. If you dont like then dont have to post it.

If you express your own opinion then share your agree to disagreement respectful or if you are interesting to share your discussion with us then do that respectful.

Anyone who applauds goverment control of children, I would say is blind. Never accept government control always question. There are too many stories of children under the "care" of the government being bought up badly.

What proof do you have that German protection laws are better than ours or anyone elses or is it just your belief?

okay, this is your own opinion and your own speaking.

Yep and I bet German boys will agree when they are conscipted into the German army!!!!!

Army??? What should we do with army with homeschooling, public school and teacher skill thread here? I would suggest you to create a new thread.

Is it only Germany where it is against the law for homeschooling or are there other countries as well??

Then search link to find out yourself.

England which is part of Europe has homeschooling!!!!

So and...? Most of my British friends and relatives send their children to right school where they decide right school for their children. I would say something if some of my British friends or relatives support homeschooling but they didnt. Perhaps you know more than me. Perhap your friends educate their children home themselves instead of go school. If yes, could you tell us what/how your friends did with their homeschooling children? Perhap it´s legal in England as what you claim but I never heard anything about homeschooling in England but America.

It´s okay if my friends support homeschooling because it´s their own choice. I would not jump on them like what you did to me yesterday and bashed me in your post like this "This post was made long before any of this stupidity started....." and also big red mark, too . It prove me in your some posts that you show no respect on my posts which it´s sad.

I respect anyone if they support homeschooling. Anyone respect me for not support homeschooling.

We are here to share our discuss with agreement to disagreement and also links with respectful instead of bashing and bitch each other because you dont like my posts.

Thank you for attention, Tamara

P.S. Remember that AD forum is not support bashing and bitching like other forum.

 

[Reba]

...I thought to myself that I would like to share German informations with you here. I thought you would interesting to know what German school system alike.

Thank you for all the information about the German school system. I think I am understanding most of it.

 

[Reba]

Sorry Reba, I forget to add more of my response post to your post.

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=285422&postcount=86

Wirtschaftsschule (business school/school of Economics) from 7th grade for:
economics,
law,
management studies etc.
financial
business
budget etc.
accountance
English
French (only voluntary)
sport
cook
computer
Scentist
German,
English

Gymanasium school (Grammar school) from 5th grade:
for different list (check link) like
doctor, dentist, Scientist, French/English languages, latin, music
more etc etc.. check that link

Realschulen (Secondary school)
Salemen, lawyer, bank, English course, etc..etc... check link

primary school for everything like normal school
English
math.
German
craftswork
sport
scientist
labor
etc etc etc like what I said at an earlier post.

German dont have college like English countries after school-leaving but training course or job education up to 3 years. Up to them if they want Unvitersity after 3 years course. If German dont want training course or job education but go straight to University after Grammar school.

All what Government support the children with school system like this.

If the children who are brainy then go to grammar school which it´s very good education but very hard education.

If the children goes well with their school report then go to Realschule (Secondary school) or Wirtschaftsschule (Business school) after end of 4th grade.

That´s all what I know and check link if you are interesting.

It looks like the children are put into specific career tracks while still young (7th grade). Is that correct? Does that mean they are trained for certain jobs while they are still in school?

 

[Reba]

Leibling,

I am trying to understand the links you posted. I can't copy and paste from the pdf link but I will use the other one for some questions.

"At the moment it is very hard to get a place at a kindergarten because there aren't enough kindergartens for all of the little children. That is why many parents start asking for a place after the birth of the children.
In Germany children can attend the kindergarten from the age of three on until the beginning of elementary school which is at the age of approximately six years. At the beginning of 1995 there were 500,000 kindergarten places and those places were about 46,000 teachers short. So, as you can see, it is not easy to get your child in a kindergarten."
Is that still the situation, or is that old information?

"German Elementary School:
After kindergarten at age six the children start elementary school. Elementary school consists of four years. The children usually have one main teacher who teaches many subjects and about two or three others for other subjects which the main teacher doesn't teach."
American elementary school is five or six years, depending on the community. The rest of the above excerpt is similar to American school.

"They learn to read and write, do basic math and social standards and values required to live in a group. They also have religious education (R.E.) in elementary school and music as well as P.E. and a subject called HSU. HSU means "Heimat und Sachunterricht" and combines history, local geography and biology into it."

What do they teach in "social standards and values required to live in a group" and "religious education"?

"After elementary school the system differs enormously from the American way of education. For many years there have always been three traditional different school types after elementary school: These three schools are separated after the speed of learning, intelligence and/or choice of the students. There are the so-called "Hauptschule", "Realschule" and the "Gymnasium".
The Hauptschule is the lowest level of education. It lasts from the 5th grade up to the 9th grade and after the 9th grade they achieve the lowest certificate of education.
In the Realschule there are those who learn faster and they are taught until the 10th grade. They have the medium level of education after the 10th grade comparable to the General Certificate of Secondary Education (G.C.S.E.) in Great Britain.
In the Gymnasium they can leave after the 10th grade with an equivalent certificate of the G.C.S.E., but according to their marks and engagement they can go on until the 13th grade (in a few states up to the 12th grade) and pass the A-levels afterwards. That is the highest level of education.
A very good thing about the German school system is that the students always have the opportunity to reach a higher level of education if they WANT to. For example: Somebody who has achieved the G.C.S.E. after the 10th grade can attend a so-called "Fachgymnasium" and try to pass the A-levels. So everybody can improve his or her certificate."

This is extremely different from American schools.

"German Comprehensive School:
Beside these three main traditional schools types there are the comprehensive schools as well which comprise of all the above mentioned school forms and offer the students to switch between the schools without changing to a different building. In recent years those schools are faced with serious problems as the number of students is enormously high which makes it difficult to establish social values and standards."

I wonder what it means "makes it difficult to establish social values and standards"?

"German Berufsschule:
There is also another school type. The vocational schools called "Berufsschule" in Germany. The Berufsschule teaches apprentices the basics of their jobs. So a plumber for example works three and a half days a week in his shop and learns the practical things and in the other one and half days the vocational schools provide knowledge, skills and competences about the theoretical parts of the job. The apprentices are paid low wages which will increase during the three years of apprenticeship."

How old are the students at the Berufsschule?

"For the male students there is a special year in Germany where they either have to join the Army for 10 months or if they refuse they have to work for social businesses for a year..."

Is that the same as a draft?

Can everyone attend university if they pass an entrance exam?

Thank you for your patience with my questions.

 

[Reba]

Leibling,

http://www.wirtschaftsschule.de/indextest.htm

Sorry, I am not fluent in German.

Another question:

Do the German schools have student diversity? In America, many schools are very diverse in race, nationality, language, culture, and religion. The schools your children attend, do they have classmates of various racial, religious, and national backgrounds?

 

[Reba]

For all ADers:

Suppose you are not satisfied with your child's government school. What would you do?

Would you move to another town?
Would you put your child into a private or religious school?
Would you home school?
Would you hire a tutor?
Would you campaign to establish a charter school in your neighborhood?
Would you ....?

What is your solution?

 

[Vance]

Secular humanism from the Christian viewpoint is a religious worldview based on atheism, naturalism, evolution, and ethical relativism. In my example about school choice, I am trying to show that not just Christians want their children to get educations that fit their beliefs.
Christians want their children to get educations that support Christian beliefs.
Secular humanists want their children to get educations that support humanist beliefs.

Does that help?

Yes, that does help alot but one thing that I'd like to know... for now, I will leave it alone until the right time.

For all ADers:

Suppose you are not satisfied with your child's government school. What would you do?

Would you move to another town?
Would you put your child into a private or religious school?
Would you home school?
Would you hire a tutor?
Would you campaign to establish a charter school in your neighborhood?
Would you ....?

What is your solution?

Two choices: Homeschooling or move to Sweden.

 

[Gemtun]

For all ADers:

Suppose you are not satisfied with your child's government school. What would you do?

Would you move to another town?
Would you put your child into a private or religious school?
Would you home school?
Would you hire a tutor?
Would you campaign to establish a charter school in your neighborhood?
Would you ....?

What is your solution?

I am not satisfied with Portland Public Schools. Some of my friends have children there and I am appalled by their education and social skills. They are much more rough and crude than my girls. In fact, some taught my girls bad words, etc.

Fortunately, I did not have to worry about that because my ex agreed with me about placing our daughters in Catholic schools. Yes there are pros and cons about Catholic schools but they are FAR better than what Portland Public Schools have to offer.

I would homeschool but I do not have sufficient income to stay home full time and do that as I am a single mom.

 

[Vance]

I do not have sufficient income to stay home full time and do that as I am a single mom.

Ask ravensteve to babysitting/tutoring your kids? Since there will be no tax in babysitting/tutoring so I think he would be glad to accept that tax-free 'job'

 

[Gemtun]

Ask ravensteve to babysitting/tutoring your kids? Since there will be no tax in babysitting/tutoring so I think he would be glad to accept that tax-free 'job'

HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You impossible funny, Magastu and Meg!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

German time in the office: 7.55am

Thank for question, Reba.

I printed your post for me and will read your post during lunch time. I will answer after lunch time.