Homeschooling

[Liebling:-)))]

I believe it is parental neglect to leave children in a bad school situation.
."

Nobody judge the parents for did their children is leave them in a bad school sitauation but blame government for neglect their people and improve enviroment.

Perhaps they have their reasons why they send their children to school is near where they live?

Perhaps they dont have good strengh enough to teach their children all the day in home?

Perhaps they has to go work to earn money to support their lives?

Perhaps they have no money to acheive to choose right place to live?

Perhaps they are divorced or single parents?

Perhaps they didnt know the school is bad before put their children in school?

Perhaps they have no money to acheive homeschooling?

I would not judge the parents for neglect their children to bad school because we dont know their reasons.

 

[Opal]

I KNOW what I´m TALKING about, thank you!

We are TALKING here about HOMESCHOOLING, not like what you and I did to help our children with homework as usual. I think you misunderstand all the whole what we talking about the thread here.

Would you pull your children out of public school to teach your children FULL TIME yourself? That´s what we talking about here.

The reason, I am not support homeschooling because I beleive that the teacher who have teacher skill. All what my children bring their homework to home for us to control and support. It´s difference between homework and homeschooling.

I´m surprised that your teacher said that you are first teacher to your children? Because teacher never said this to me. All what my sons´s teacher and I do is support each other what we do with my children. Every parents and teachers must support each other to help their children. I went to parent evenings often and learn alot of tips from teachers what we can do with our children etc BECAUSE they are skill teacher and also physical skills, too. I check with teacher every week how my children get on.

Please check my post one more then you will understand:
That´s what I said in my earlier post.

Gee, take a chill pill.

Just because I talk about my experiences, etc, with my own children, you don't have to jump down my throat!!!!!!!!!!

I have the same rights as you to express my opinion.

Of course you never heard from your teacher telling you "Parents are children's first teachers because it is ILLEGAL for homeschooling in Germany!! We are lucky to have the option in Australia if we want homeschooling or not.
We are very lucky to have freedom of choice and we can investigate to make our own decisions.

You should have the right to think for yourself, not blindly believe the Government is right.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Gee, take a chill pill.

Nope, it´s you who start it to jump my post with scream red mark "FIRST". You need to take

, not me. I only give you an answer what I know because you brought the subject over homework here.

Just because I talk about my experiences, etc, with my own children, you don't have to jump down my throat!!!!!!!!!!

See above, it´s you who start it. It´s me who start to express my own opinion over not support homeschooling. It´s you who jump me with scream red mark on me.

I have the same rights as you to express my opinion.

Yes, you has the right to express your opinion but you should take other posts example instead of jump with scream on me with angry red mark "FIRST".
I do not scream them but respect their opinion. We are here to discuss, not scream with large red mark. It´s you who need

See what you did to me in first place.
http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=284603&postcount=53

Of course you never heard from your teacher telling you "Parents are children's first teachers because it is ILLEGAL for homeschooling in Germany!! We are lucky to have the option in Australia if we want homeschooling or not.
We are very lucky to have freedom of choice and we can investigate to make our own decisions.

As what you mention here, well do that!
If you support homeschooling, do that then? Give your job up to teach your children yourself. It´s your own belief and opinion. Why cant you do that?
I would never do that. I support homeschooling as illegal in Germany because I beleive it´s teacher job because they have teacher skill. I´m sure that you know yourself because you born and raise in Europe. Did you ask your teacher where/how they learn to being teacher? I bet they would tell you that they learn it from college, uvisteristy etc.

I´m very very very lucky to live in Germany and learn alot of tips from teachers about children upbringing during parent evenings. We learn alot from conference etc until I decide myself what good or bad for my children. I am agree some of their tips or not. It´s up to me. We thank them to give us the attention about children upbringing what we do with our children etc. Of course we also has freedom here in Germany, too. We can choose school what we want like everyone.

I am not my children´s teacher but mother who give them attention, love and respect and also educate them into right path. I show them into good path where they should follow to and support them with homeworks where they bring from school etc.

My teacher told me that it´s his/her education task to do with my children during lesson hour. After school time then is our education. We support each other with children education. My teacher asked me for the permission if they can punish my children with 50 line to write or stay in the school during 15 minutes break. We are for it. As far as I know that they are not allow to hurt the children but light punish. That´s what I like that.

You should have the right to think for yourself, not blindly believe the Government is right.

Me and blind? I am an adult and know what I do, thank you.
I learn alot from tips thru teachers, mother care magazine, unbringing tips etc. I thank government for take care of children-friendly enviroment.
I would do something if government neglect their people and environment etc. The reason I choose to live Germany because of environment safety which it´s good place for the children upbringing and children-friendly environment.
If you think it´s not necassary to get any tips, recommend etc from teachers, conference, children upbringing tips, etc is your own opinion. You dont have to jump on me with red mark scream on me in first place. Discuss is okay but not scream on me.

 

[Codger]

I definitely would like to see the laboratory sciences like biology, chemistry, and physics taught in middle school, although just the basics. No need to overwhelm them with quantum physics or fusion. I believe in pretty much all Canadian high schools, only one laboratory science class is required to pass Grade 12, and most take biology as an "easy way out" unless computer science is now considered a science..

They are in a lot of schools here. My daughter's school has computer lab classes too.

It is no wonder places like Europe and Asia place so far ahead of Canadians and Americans per subject exams. They start them young and require it throughout the education system...

I agree. It is one result, though unintended, of outcome based education which places more emphasis on social enginering than on education, at least here. I don't know about Canadian education.

I thought Bush enacted that law "No Child Left Behind" which required all teachers to take the Praxis examinations. A friend of mine took Praxis for Washington State teaching certification last May 2004, and she said it was a very difficult exam although she passed with high marks. This is a person that has a Bachelor of Education, a master's degree, and over 15 years of teaching in the Canadian public school system. If she found it difficult, I can't imagine a new college graduate faced with such a daunting exam to become a teacher....

That is one feature of no child left behind. Another is that the material is taught to the lowest level of the students, unless the school happens to have a "gifted" program.

It is understandable that many wonderful, well-educated, and enthusiastic teachers are no longer eligible to teach because they were unable to pass these new strignent teacher certification examinations. ....

If they cannot study the material and pass a basic competency test, SHOULD they continue to teach?

It is too bad Bush isn't putting money where his words are. The teacher salaries are dismal throughout the United States. Last fall on Oprah's annual "Top Ten Gifts" where she had an audience full of teachers. She talked about how teachers are trying to get by on salaries of under $28,000 a year and often buy school supplies for their students because there is none at the school (i.e., paper, pencils, craft supplies, etc.). Oprah gave the teachers in the audience $500 to spend at the Office Depot (or was it some other store) to buy school supplies. I never seen such excited people over paper and crayons.

Out of curiosity, how good are Canadian teacher salaries? Does the PM set them?

You evidently do not understand the U.S. political structure. No President can issue an edict to fund anything. They can only ask congress for funds. He does not set teacher salaries, nor can he raise them. Teachers are State employees, not Federal. State legislatures appropriate the funding to schools.

Many churches and civic organizations also provide teachers with materials. My own church, a small country church, provides basic materials to local public schools.

Home schooled children many times excell way past their public school counterparts. Same for private schooled children. Here at least, the educational materials and sylabus are State approved, and the students have to pass regular state tests to get grades. They can proceed at their own pace, but have to meet minimum standards for their grade level. Quite a few excellerate their learning and wind up doing college level work at age 15. I did.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

deaflibrarian, thank you for remind me about laboratory sciences like biology, chemistry, and physics.

My sons were taught about this in public school. Homeschooling? Do the parents have skill like this? That´s why I prefer public school because they have everything what homeschooling dont have.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I definitely would like to see the laboratory sciences like biology, chemistry, and physics taught in middle school, although just the basics. No need to overwhelm them with quantum physics or fusion. I believe in pretty much all Canadian high schools, only one laboratory science class is required to pass Grade 12, and most take biology as an "easy way out" unless computer science is now considered a science.

It is no wonder places like Europe and Asia place so far ahead of Canadians and Americans per subject exams. They start them young and require it throughout the education system.

Exactly, it´s same in Europe. I´m surprise that Canadian are the same as Europe. Interesting. I remember your posts from other threads sounds same as in Germany. I dont have skill like this to teach my children with physics, chemistry, biology, etc. etc. My son is interesting to learn sciences like this.

I thought Bush enacted that law "No Child Left Behind" which required all teachers to take the Praxis examinations. A friend of mine took Praxis for Washington State teaching certification last May 2004, and she said it was a very difficult exam although she passed with high marks. This is a person that has a Bachelor of Education, a master's degree, and over 15 years of teaching in the Canadian public school system. If she found it difficult, I can't imagine a new college graduate faced with such a daunting exam to become a teacher.

It is understandable that many wonderful, well-educated, and enthusiastic teachers are no longer eligible to teach because they were unable to pass these new strignent teacher certification examinations.

It is too bad Bush isn't putting money where his words are. The teacher salaries are dismal throughout the United States. Last fall on Oprah's annual "Top Ten Gifts" where she had an audience full of teachers. She talked about how teachers are trying to get by on salaries of under $28,000 a year and often buy school supplies for their students because there is none at the school (i.e., paper, pencils, craft supplies, etc.). Oprah gave the teachers in the audience $500 to spend at the Office Depot (or was it some other store) to buy school supplies. I never seen such excited people over paper and crayons.

Thank you for bring your interesting post here. I´m wondering the same as you over Reba´s post.

Because Germans must go college to get teacher degree/skill if they want to become teacher. It´s very hard examination to get certicate teacher that´s what my friends told me about. I was raised in Europe knowing that they are training in college/unvitersity for years to become certificated teacher.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Thank you for interesting information, Codger. I has to learn more about America.

I realized that I´m an European and have different view as American but I get on well with American friends because they respect me as I respect them the same.

 

[lostintexas]

I've been catching up on some reading here. For the sake of clarity, I thought I'd post a specific link to a site that talks about outcome-based education (thanks codger for reminding me of that).

http://www.theriver.com/Public/tucson_parents_edu_forum/obe1.html

It's a bit long, but definitely worth the read, if you have the time and interest.

 

[Reba]

Do you think the children are prefect as angel?

No, children are not perfect. They have a sin nature in them. But why would a parent want to feed that nature? If we feed the sin nature with more bad things, the sin nature will increase in strength. I prefer to starve the sin nature.

Do you think you would hide your children from "bad" world?

I didn't "hide" my child from the bad world, but I "protected" her from the bad world. Parents protect their children from exposure to dangerous chemicals and traffic, right? Why not protect them from dangers to their minds and souls also?

Same as Magatsu wants to protect his children from harmful food and drinks, parents want to protect their children from harmful sights and sounds.

Example about World New TV. Would you let your chlidren watch World New TV?

Yes, depending on the child's age. I don't think little children need to see violent and sexual topics on TV. Also, I wouldn't let them watch it alone, and we would discuss what we see.

The children will grow up and look something out of curiously what "bad" alike because they didnt know what it is because their parents never told them.

I never said that parents shouldn't tell their kids about the world. I definitely believe that parents should discuss the dangers of the world with their children. That is the parents discussing it with their children; that is not the same as learning things in a sneaky, uninformed way from other kids. A parent can explain the facts about smoking, and explain why they are against it. A kid's friend will not explain smoking; a kid will say, "hey, let's try these cigarettes that I found." Big difference.

My job to educate my children to not do that etc.

I agree. That is my whole point. You are the parent, so you decide what is best for your child. The government should not decide for you.

I respect your opinion but I see the different.

But I think that we agree that the parents should be allowed to teach the children about life. You do not want the government to tell you what to do about your children, do you?

Important is pick right school and which place with good enivornment where we can trust to live.

Right. The problem is some governments do not allow parents to pick the right school, whether it is a government school, a charter school, a private secular school, a Christian school, a parochial school, a Hebrew day school, a boarding school, a residential school for the Deaf, or a home school.

 

[Codger]

I've been catching up on some reading here. For the sake of clarity, I thought I'd post a specific link to a site that talks about outcome-based education (thanks codger for reminding me of that).

It's a bit long, but definitely worth the read, if you have the time and interest.

A good text on OBE, but you are right, it is a thick read. Can you find something similar that can be read by an OBE graduate?

 

[Reba]

My hubby´s question:

Whats if you have 3 children with 3 or more and less years part in your house.
Would you do with them when you want to have them homeschool? I mean: Example: 3 of children from aged 6 to 16 years. How could you teach the children with difference ages like this? Teach them all in once?

Each family sets up a program to fit their needs.
As one example, each child has an assignment appropriate to age and grade level. They can do their work individually, or sometimes the older kids can tutor the younger ones. Sometimes they work in one room, or sometimes separate rooms. Sometimes they work individually at the computer, or do independent research at the library. There are many different ways to set up a program. I know many home school families, and each one had a system that fit the specific needs of that family.

In early America, the one-room school house for all grade levels was common.

In the 1920-30s, My dad attended a one-room rural school house through high school. One teacher for all the kids, every age, every grade. After graduation, he worked for the Navy as a civilian, installing special equipment in submarines. When WWII started, he enlisted in the Navy. Because he had a rare technical skill that the Navy needed, he enlisted as an E-4 (not E-1), was issued his uniform, and reported for duty. He was not even sent to boot camp. At the end of the war, he was an E-6. The Navy offered him an officer commission as Ltjg if he wanted to stay in, but he declined. Instead, he went to college and got his four-year degree in two years, in electrical engineering (his name is posted in that engineering college's "Hall of Fame"). He worked for Bell Labs (and has patents for his inventions), Lockheed, NASA, and various Navy departments.

I only say all that to show that a student can get an excellant education even in one humble room with kids of all ages mixed together. The students were poor and barefooted in overalls. No computers or high tech equipment. Only one teacher. But they were taught the fundamentals of their subjects, and they were taught how to study and be self-disciplined. After that, they could learn any subject they took up in college.

My dad was not a special exception. Many, many of our country's best scientists, doctors, writers, entrepreneurs, etc., came from that same kind of background. Many of my friends home schooled their children, and the children went on to college, military, or successful jobs, same as other kids do.

What if parent got pregnant or unwell and cant teach their children during those situation?

It depends on the situation. I can't give an example for each family. But even government school teachers get pregnant or sick. They can get subs, and home school parents can get subs too.

I am agree with my hubby´s question because I cant see the sense why the parents teach their children ALL THE DAY when parent spend their time to consider baby like breastfed or bottlefed, etc...father goes to work to earn to support family. mother just had baby etc.... ? mother need to go shopping to buy the foods, clean the house and do garten work etc. Where is parents´s break?

Parents don't teach their children "ALL THE DAY". A home school day doesn't require as many hours per day as a government school. The mom isn't sitting for six hours a day in a room with the kids. Home schoolers don't need time for commuting to school, no car-pooling, taking attendance, getting the lunch orders, handing out papers, sending notes home to parents, parent/teacher conferences, etc. While the kids are doing their assignments, mom can throw the laundry in the washer, make phone calls, cook supper, etc. She is still there to answer questions, but she can also do other things at the same time. No big deal.

I had the feeling that it´s not good for the children to have homeschooling.

That's fine. I said, home schooling is not for everyone. If you don't want to home school, no one will force you. If you are satisfied with your kids' school, then that is great. I am not trying to persuade you to home school, no way. I am just saying that if other families want to home school, they should be allowed. I don't want anyone to force you to home school, and I don't want anyone to force other families to use government schools. I think that is fair.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, children are not perfect. They have a sin nature in them. But why would a parent want to feed that nature? If we feed the sin nature with more bad things, the sin nature will increase in strength. I prefer to starve the sin nature.

True, we do is show our children in right path like what I said in my earlier post.

I didn't "hide" my child from the bad world, but I "protected" her from the bad world. Parents protect their children from exposure to dangerous chemicals and traffic, right? Why not protect them from dangers to their minds and souls also?

Exactly, that´s what I do the same with my children.

Same as Magatsu wants to protect his children from harmful food and drinks, parents want to protect their children from harmful sights and sounds.

Yes, I do the same as Magatsu. I already share my opinion with him in some of his thread because I´m interesting to know about healthy foods, drink etc. I learn alot about foods thru conference, tips thru teachers, books, forum etc. We (parents) do is protect our children...

Yes, depending on the child's age. I don't think little children need to see violent and sexual topics on TV. Also, I wouldn't let them watch it alone, and we would discuss what we see.

Agreed. I would not let my children to watch horror film, volience movies etc etc etc. but News from the world and police information over criminals once a month. Depend what I can allow them watch or not. We discussed what they can watch or not.

I never said that parents shouldn't tell their kids about the world. I definitely believe that parents should discuss the dangers of the world with their children. That is the parents discussing it with their children; that is not the same as learning things in a sneaky, uninformed way from other kids. A parent can explain the facts about smoking, and explain why they are against it. A kid's friend will not explain smoking; a kid will say, "hey, let's try these cigarettes that I found." Big difference.

Yeah, I know what you mean. My son tried smoke out of curiously thru his friend and confide me that it´s horrible. I explained him why I think smoke is not good and told him why I dont smoke etc. etc.

I agree. That is my whole point. You are the parent, so you decide what is best for your child. The government should not decide for you.

Yes, I know what do best for my child without government tell me what to do because I did not anything to harm my children. They would do something when they found out that you are bad parent. But I thank government for take care of children-enivorment friendly. The teachers gave us their attention tips about children education/unbringing etc which we appreciate it very much and collect any tips/idea etc from teacher, conference.. All what they do is protect our children. We (parents) do everything to protect our children, too. We work together and support each other because we doing is protect our children´s safety and future.

But I think that we agree that the parents should be allowed to teach the children about life. You do not want the government to tell you what to do about your children, do you?

See above

Right. The problem is some governments do not allow parents to pick the right school, whether it is a government school, a charter school, a private secular school, a Christian school, a parochial school, a Hebrew day school, a boarding school, a residential school for the Deaf, or a home school.

Oh, it´s up to parents to choose right public schools where their children should attend to. It´s not right that government choose school for the parents.

We can choose school what we want. We applied school where we want our children attend to one year before my children goes school.
I got a letter from principal telling me if I am interesting to put my son to their school one year before my son attend. The school get information thru Kindergarden because the school is near where we live. We went to look around school with interpeter and question principal and teacher.... until we agreed and accept it. The school where my children attend is in small town in countryside, few km away from my house. My son will be 12 years old next month and hoping to go ecomincal school this September in town which it´s 5 km away from my house.

 

[Reba]

Nobody judge the parents for did their children is leave them in a bad school sitauation but blame government for neglect their people and improve enviroment.

I am not saying that home schooling is the solution for everyone. That is why I think the government should allow parents to chose the best way to educate their children. I don't believe parents should leave their children in bad schools. Parents should be allowed to remove their children from schools that don't meet their needs. If a parent doesn't care, then yes, that is negligence. If a parent just uses any school for a "baby-sitting service", then that is negligent.

Government schools and home schooling are not the only two options.

Perhaps they have their reasons why they send their children to school is near where they live?

That is not always the situation in the U.S. Many children are bused away from their neighborhoods and forced to attend government schools that are farther away. Because the government wants to "balance" the student racial percentages in schools, they bus kids to far-away schools instead of allowing the kids to attend the schools that are near their houses.

Perhaps they dont have good strengh enough to teach their children all the day in home?

re: my other post that explains about home schooling doesn't require all day.

Perhaps they has to go work to earn money to support their lives?

That is why I support tax credits for parents who home school or use private schools. That would reduce some of the financial burden for parents.

Perhaps they didnt know the school is bad before put their children in school?

Parents do need to inform themselves, look at the curriculum, visit the school, attend the meetings, etc.

 

[Reba]

post deleted
toothache made me crabby

Sorry to hear that. Do you need some Ambusol?

 

[Reba]

... My son will be 12 years old next month and hoping to go ecomincal school this September in town which it´s 5 km away from my house.

I am not familiar with "ecomincal" school. Can you please explain what that is? Sorry, I don't know about the German school system.

 

[Reba]

...Sorry but I am not quite sure what you mean about 'too much humanism'? Care to elaborate on that one?

Secular humanism from the Christian viewpoint is a religious worldview based on atheism, naturalism, evolution, and ethical relativism. In my example about school choice, I am trying to show that not just Christians want their children to get educations that fit their beliefs.
Christians want their children to get educations that support Christian beliefs.
Secular humanists want their children to get educations that support humanist beliefs.

Does that help?

 

[Opal]

Oh I see.

Here in Germany is different.
They demand teaching skill/certifcates where they visit to grammar school then college then unvitersity. It took them 3 to 5 years to train to be skill teacher. As far as I know that Germany is the same as Europe demand teacher skill.

My sons have 4 to 5 different teachers a day.

Teacher for history
Teacher for math.
Teacher for English
Teacher for German
Teacher for Scientist
Teacher for sport
Teacher for homecrafts

etc etc etc.

All what I control their hour plan sheet everyday where they has to attend then I pack things in their school bag.

As you see that they have certifcate to teach the children, not us.

All is I control their homeworks when they brought everyday and show them something/educate them/support them etc.

My son has a good report and want to go economical school this year. We are going to apply for him and make further school test. If he pass again then he will start enonomical school this September.

I know that American have elemtery school, high school and public school, private or boarding school but here in Germany is different.

We only have primary school, Secondary school, Grammar school or Enonomical school from 5th Class (5th to 7th class grade only).

That´s why we dont support homeschooling. It´s my opinion because I dont have skill like what teachers have. I do only is support my children with homework etc.

Why do you think Germany is different????

What you have written above sounds like the basic minimum anywhere for teachers!!!!

 

[Kalista]

deaflibrarian, thank you for remind me about laboratory sciences like biology, chemistry, and physics.

My sons were taught about this in public school. Homeschooling? Do the parents have skill like this? That´s why I prefer public school because they have everything what homeschooling dont have.

A little bit, topic point out:

I am intriguing if Germany offers English class for your sons at the public school or High School?

High School, they do offer foreign languages. Most Spanish language required because of popular Spanish in this area.

I know, Hong Kong school requires English class because of Chinese people tend to come to America for their colleges.

 

[Opal]

Nope, it´s you who start it to jump my post with scream red mark "FIRST". You need to take , not me. I only give you an answer what I know because you brought the subject over homework here.

Ok, I highlighted one word in a conversation I thought was important. I don't see anyone else carry on about it being screaming and if it is why escalate it by screaming back?????

I KNOW what I´m TALKING about, thank you!

We are TALKING here about HOMESCHOOLING, not like what you and I did to help our children with homework as usual.

Well for your information, I KNOW what I'm TALKING about TOO.

As what you mention here, well do that!
If you support homeschooling, do that then? Give your job up to teach your children yourself. It´s your own belief and opinion. Why cant you do that?

If you had bothered to read any of my posts properly you would understand why I think this remark is stupid.

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=283745&postcount=29

This post was made long before any of this stupidity started and it also explains how home schooling works in Aust if you look at the links. Home schooling is very important in the outback where distances between farms can take hours of driving and it is just too far too take children to school unless you go to boarding school. It used to be called schooling by radio until the internet got popular. It is run from one school for a large outback area.

Well, I appause government to control of the children because Germans are stricter about children protection law.

Anyone who applauds goverment control of children, I would say is blind. Never accept government control always question. There are too many stories of children under the "care" of the government being bought up badly.

What proof do you have that German protection laws are better than ours or anyone elses or is it just your belief?

Me and blind? I am an adult and know what I do, thank you. I learn alot from tips thru teachers, mother care magazine, unbringing tips etc. I thank government for take care of children-friendly enviroment. I would do something if government neglect their people and environment etc. The reason I choose to live Germany because of environment safety which it´s good place for the children upbringing and children-friendly environment.
If you think it´s not necassary to get any tips, recommend etc from teachers, conference, children upbringing tips, etc is your own opinion. You dont have to jump on me with red mark scream on me in first place. Discuss is okay but not scream on me.

Yep and I bet German boys will agree when they are conscipted into the German army!!!!!

Is it only Germany where it is against the law for homeschooling or are there other countries as well??

England which is part of Europe has homeschooling!!!!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, they have elemetery school and High school for the children of military families in military area where I work.

Every military casernes have elemetary and high school.

Forget to add RainBow school in my last post, Magastu.