ASL, SEE, PSE, etc.

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When I use SEE in an educational setting, I use the initialized signs and endings for "him, her, them, -ing, -ed, -s, -'s, I, we, us, have, had, has, was, is, be, will, were, are, his, its, the, a, an, of, he, she, it," etc. I also use initialized versions of ASL signs, English word order, and more "mouthing". I sometimes include the punctuation signs for commas, colons, semi-colons, periods, exclamations, and question marks.
 
Reba said:
When I use SEE in an educational setting, I use the initialized signs and endings for "him, her, them, -ing, -ed, -s, -'s, I, we, us, have, had, has, was, is, be, will, were, are, his, its, the, a, an, of, he, she, it," etc. I also use initialized versions of ASL signs, English word order, and more "mouthing". I sometimes include the punctuation signs for commas, colons, semi-colons, periods, exclamations, and question marks.
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Yeah, that's the way I learned SEE as well. The sign for "him"placed where "boy" would be but made with an "m" hand, the sign for "her" place at the chin where "girl would be but made with an "r" hand, "have" with a "v" hand, "had" with a "d" hand, and "has" with an "s" hand, etc.
 
jillio said:
Yeah, that's the way I learned SEE as well. The sign for "him"placed where "boy" would be but made with an "m" hand, the sign for "her" place at the chin where "girl would be but made with an "r" hand, "have" with a "v" hand, "had" with a "d" hand, and "has" with an "s" hand, etc.
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Yes.
 
SEE sounds good on paper and like it has the right intentions, but it doesn't take much of a genius to work out it just doesn't work well in theory.
 
InnocentOdion said:
SEE sounds good on paper and like it has the right intentions, but it doesn't take much of a genius to work out it just doesn't work well in theory.
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And trying to practice it is even worse!
 
SEE is not the worst idea to come around the Cape, but it has to be one of the poorest implimented. That is because it was done for deaf people and not with deaf people and it was done by people who had no respect for ASL.

What is needed is a bridge language between ASL and English that is easily crossed by both deaf and hearing -- SEE is not it. Back when I was still pretty good at ASL I met a deaf girl who knew only SEE and I could not communicate with her. She signed "my nose was running" using the same sign as "John run" rather than ASL "nose flow" which uses the same sign as "blood flowing."

In ASL a nose can't run, it flows, but in SEE it does. Then SEE invented signs, who knows why, and then insisted on initializing petty differences that did were not needed.

Morning eat with an added ending would have worked much better than initializing "eat" into 'b' breakfast.

Turning the "true - is" sign into the initialized mess of "is, am, are, be," etc is enough to drive anybody crazy -- You don't really need all that in English let alone sign language.

It is too bad really that something good didn't come out of the whole idea.
 
You've proven my point, Berry, What is it with you, ASLers who have that right to mock SEE signs, just because you do not understand our signs. Both basic signs for words are the same with only a few exceptions, however SEE is a sign executed for every word in a sentence, and ASL does not. What's so great about SEE signs that you could sing and sign, You can talk and sign the same time while you cannot do that with ASL.
 
i use asl or pse among my deaf family and deaf peers. but i also use gestures around some of my deaf relatives or hearing relatives.. some of deaf relatives didnt go school etc...
now i see in my boys.. they use pse/asl at school too..but same time can write a good sentence..
 
Cheri said:
You've proven my point, Berry, What is it with you, ASLers who have that right to mock SEE signs, just because you do not understand our signs. Both basic signs for words are the same with only a few exceptions, however SEE is a sign executed for every word in a sentence, and ASL does not. What's so great about SEE signs that you could sing and sign, You can talk and sign the same time while you cannot do that with ASL.
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Not to disrespect you, Cheri...

To be honest with u. One can sign with a song using ASL. I have seen it. Matter of fact, I understand it in ASL than in SEE.

By talking and signing at the same time, one language becomes compromised. It is like trying to talk Spanish and English at the same time.
 
shel90 said:
Not to disrespect you, Cheri...

To be honest with u. One can sign with a song using ASL. I have seen it. Matter of fact, I understand it in ASL than in SEE.

By talking and signing at the same time, one language becomes compromised. It is like trying to talk Spanish and English at the same time.
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Yes, I am not putting down SEE users at all. That is what they were taught. But sim com does produces a confusing linguitic environment for a deaf child, and both languages suffer.

No disrespect intended, Cheri.
 
shel90 said:
By talking and signing at the same time, one language becomes compromised. It is like trying to talk Spanish and English at the same time.
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I'm sorry but I disagree with you there, Shel. I use my voice everytime I sign.
 
Cheri said:
I'm sorry but I disagree with you there, Shel. I use my voice everytime I sign.
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I'm afraid Shel and others are right on this one.

I notice that when I use my voice, my signing will suffer. I never use the English pronouns, ings, ed or ly as it's hard for other deaf and it's cumbersome for me. I try to use ASL as much as possible but I often end up signing in PSE because I'm very English.
 
Cheri said:
I'm sorry but I disagree with you there, Shel. I use my voice everytime I sign.
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When I first starting learning ASL, I used my voice when signing until my brother told me that it wasnt ASL that I was signing. At that time, many deaf people struggled to communicate with me and I asked my brother why. He told me to turn my voice off...since then my signing has been much more fluent and made more sense to many Deaf people. As a teacher, I have to be fluent in ASL for my students. I thank my brother for making me realize that by using my voice, my ASL suffers.


However, if you are comfortable signing and talking at the same time, nothing wrong with that. I wanted to be fluent in ASL both expressively and receptively.
 
You guys are talking about ASL I'm talking about SEE. I know with ASL it's impossible to talk and use ASL the same time, But, with SEE you can.
 
Cheri said:
You guys are talking about ASL I'm talking about SEE. I know with ASL it's impossible to talk and use ASL the same time, But, with SEE you can.
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True. I have tried doing SEE ..I just cant do it. When I start signing, the ASL part of my brain takes over automatically. It is weird.

When I sign to my husband and he doesnt understand my signs, I use my voice but without realizing, I drop the signs and just use spoken English. I have tried to keep on signing while talking but I find myself doing either ASL or just spoken English.

Does it take a lot of effort for u to sign and talk at the same time or is it natural to you?
 
shel90 said:
When I first starting learning ASL, I used my voice when signing until my brother told me that it wasnt ASL that I was signing. At that time, many deaf people struggled to communicate with me and I asked my brother why. He told me to turn my voice off...since then my signing has been much more fluent and made more sense to many Deaf people. As a teacher, I have to be fluent in ASL for my students. I thank my brother for making me realize that by using my voice, my ASL suffers.


However, if you are comfortable signing and talking at the same time, nothing wrong with that. I wanted to be fluent in ASL both expressively and receptively.
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I'm going to have to agree with you there. As long as I am using my voice, I am thinking in English, and the syntax of my signing follows more of an English word order. But if I don't use my voice, it frees my brain upto think in a visual, spatial way so that I don't have to translate in my head, but simply switch to that mode of thinking.

And I agree....I know a few people who speak and sign at the same time. If that's what they are comfortable with, it doesn't bother me. I'll switch to accommodate them.
 
Cheri said:
You guys are talking about ASL I'm talking about SEE. I know with ASL it's impossible to talk and use ASL the same time, But, with SEE you can.
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Agreed...you can sim com with SEE, or even with PSE.
 
With no disrespect intended, signing songs in SEE is very awkward coompared to ASL wich is smooth-flowing, concise and graceful.

I can carry on a conversation with a SEEer if I need to but I don't try to get them to change. However, over the years, I've known a bunch who have gravitated toward ASL......I visualize a future generation who were TRULY raised Bi-Bi because those people will be English literate and ASL natives! I mean there's a bunch of those now and I hope to see the trend continue by leaps and bounds!
 
shel90 said:
Does it take a lot of effort for u to sign and talk at the same time or is it natural to you?
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The sign language used in total communication is more closely related to English, to sign and speak at the same time, I've learned it when I was in total communication program, It's different because I grew up oral then having to add signs to it, makes it confusing but it works out well at the end.
 
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