The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

BecLak said:
Yes, Grendel has made some very good choices for her child. She is very blessed to be in that school. That is what I am saying. She was able to make those choices. My parents were never given any options, were not informed of the Deaf community and sign language, so I was not exposed to anything but mainstream/oral only environments. No fault of my parents. My parents were and are very understanding and supportive under the circumstances. I know that if they were given the choices Grendel had, they would have embraced sign language, had they known that it was the 'natural' language for me. My mother recently expressed, after coming the realisation of all the difficulties I faced in communication, that even at her age now, she would learn sign language for me at least as much as she could. All my life, all we were told was I was HOH, but only 2 years ago or less I discovered I was in fact severely-deaf. That came as no surprise to me as it explained a lot of things to me. As for my hearing family, it came as quite a shock to them and they are still adjusting to this 'new' revelation.
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Yes, LiLi is extremely fortunate to have caring and loving parents like GrendelQ and her hubby. :)
 
BecLak said:
FJ is saying Reba that a Deaf child does have full assessibility to spoken language today due to CIs.
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But not all children have access to hearing spoken language, unless you're including the use of interpreters.

1. Not all deaf children are candidates for CI.

2. Those who do get implanted are not all able to discern spoken language clearly with them.


I've interpreted for implanted children and adults in educational settings.
 
deafbajagal said:
The day I dropped out of high school (it would be months before I went to the deaf school to finish out high school) was the day it dawned on me that it was Thursday and that not one single soul that week...not a friend, teacher, janitor, cafetaria worker, bus driver...talked to me. I didn't understand them well, and thus I didn't talk much. But no one talked to me. It became too difficult to communicate. I was truly, truly alone.

And I stood up, walked out of the classroom, emptied my locker, and went in the counselor's office to announce I was leaving. Just like that, I left.

Bec, Beb, DD, Shel, Dixie, Ally...and I'm sure there's more...all in the same boat as me.

We all learned to speak, to the best of our ability, to mainstream. Why didn't anyone listen?
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Yes, I found it to be very lonely in school, but I loved to learn so I would bury myself in books. The interaction in the classroom or group settings was near to zilch. That's why I accellerated in school once I began to be homeschooled with a self-instructional curriculum. I love learning.

However, I wouldn't have been as brave as dbb to walk out of school. :P
 
was the day it dawned on me that it was Thursday and that not one single soul that week...not a friend, teacher, janitor, cafetaria worker, bus driver...talked to me. I didn't understand them well, and thus I didn't talk much. But no one talked to me. It became too difficult to communicate. I was truly, truly alone.
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Again, tears in my eyes. To this DAY I wish I could have known that Deaf Schools were and are hoh friendly, so I could have gone to one. Or at least a regional Dhh program. I wish so badly my parents could have known that deaf schools/programs weren't just for deaf voice off kids. Granted my school system was horrible, to the point where an elementary school teacher who didn't even HAVE me remembered how horrible I had it, trying to get accomondations and fitting in socially. Bear in mind I have pretty good residual hearing. I was not a kid who got SOME benifit from HAs. Matter of fact, I am an aural learner (yes, I know....that is strange)
Oh, and something that just confirmed my suspicions. Someone on another list said that the placement of kids at deaf schools is REALLY political. It's about the public schools trying to save money or claiming they're giving the students a FAPE by giving them minimal accomondations.
 
And you know......I do think we may have oral kids deciding in middle and high school to go off to Deaf School in the next few years. There are HOH kids at Deaf Schools now....you NEVER would have seen that in the old days. That proves that the Deaf Schools are beginning to get hoh friendly. Not all of them, no....but a lot of them are.
 
deafdyke said:
Again, tears in my eyes. To this DAY I wish I could have known that Deaf Schools were and are hoh friendly, so I could have gone to one. Or at least a regional Dhh program. I wish so badly my parents could have known that deaf schools/programs weren't just for deaf voice off kids. Granted my school system was horrible, to the point where an elementary school teacher who didn't even HAVE me remembered how horrible I had it, trying to get accomondations and fitting in socially. Bear in mind I have pretty good residual hearing. I was not a kid who got SOME benifit from HAs. Matter of fact, I am an aural learner (yes, I know....that is strange)
Oh, and something that just confirmed my suspicions. Someone on another list said that the placement of kids at deaf schools is REALLY political. It's about the public schools trying to save money or claiming they're giving the students a FAPE by giving them minimal accomondations.
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Politics do play a role for many decisions regarding placement, unfortunately. :(
 
deafbajagal said:
The day I dropped out of high school (it would be months before I went to the deaf school to finish out high school) was the day it dawned on me that it was Thursday and that not one single soul that week...not a friend, teacher, janitor, cafetaria worker, bus driver...talked to me. I didn't understand them well, and thus I didn't talk much. But no one talked to me. It became too difficult to communicate. I was truly, truly alone.

And I stood up, walked out of the classroom, emptied my locker, and went in the counselor's office to announce I was leaving. Just like that, I left.

Bec, Beb, DD, Shel, Dixie, Ally...and I'm sure there's more...all in the same boat as me.

We all learned to speak, to the best of our ability, to mainstream. Why didn't anyone listen?
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To the hearing parents,

seriously..what DBG said is no joke. It is a serious matter and yet, we are still being taken lightly about this issue.

It is probably you think you child wont be like us or never experience what we have been trying to share.
 
Wirelessly posted
shel90 said:
To the hearing parents,
...
It is probably you think you child wont be like us or never experience what we have been trying to share.
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Well, actually this is true: My child is not like you and -- unless you are a 5yo profoundly deaf Chinese girl living in Southern MA, attending a bibi school, with ASL as your L1, bilateral CIs, fluency in spoken English, working on mandarin and studying piano, then she is not experiencing what you experienced.
That's not to say your experience isnt valid or doesn't have important takeaways for us to learn from--it is and does.
 
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GrendelQ said:
Wirelessly posted

well, actually this is true: My child is not like you and -- unless you are a 5yo profoundly deaf Chinese girl living in Southern MA, attending a bibi school, with ASL as your L1, bilateral CIs, fluency in spoken English, working on mandarin and studying piano, then she is not experiencing what you experienced.





That's not to say your experience isnt valid or doesn't have important takeaways for us to learn from--it is and does.
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I mean not experienced anything that any of us ever experienced. That is what it seems like certain people keep saying. We all are deaf and we will share that one common factor...dealing with deafness in a hearing world.
 
GrendelQ said:
Wirelessly posted

well, actually this is true: My child is not like you and -- unless you are a 5yo profoundly deaf Chinese girl living in Southern MA, attending a bibi school, with ASL as your L1, bilateral CIs, fluency in spoken English, working on mandarin and studying piano, then she is not experiencing what you experienced.





That's not to say your experience isnt valid or doesn't have important takeaways for us to learn from--it is and does.
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She is only 5 years old. I am glad that she learns ASL. But what of her future when she might have some difficult time in the mainstream school if the school are not providing her with accommodations she need. The School will probably not listen to her at all when she want accommodations. That is what happen when the mainstream schools without the special accommodations refuse to listen to us, Deafies including HOH. That is why it is sooo wrong for parents have to make the decisions for us and we had to suffer for them. We were not happy back then. So be prepare when your daughter grows up and face the real world, whether she will be in the elementary and high school. I hope I am making myself clear on this. :wave:
 
From what I have read, G's daughter is in an awesome program. It's the kind of program, based on what she has described, I would have thrived in as a kid, and frankly, a program I would feel comfortable placing my own child in. It's an ideal placement, and she's doing a wonderful job as a parent in providing what her daughter needs. LiLi is one child I don't lay awake at night worrying about. She's in wonderful hands. I don't always agree with some of G's views (smile) but I see that she clearly puts her child's needs first and really is making the effort for her child to be well-rounded. Unfortunately, there are not many programs such as this one out there. Especially in my home state, where horrid stories are still being relived, even today. Stories that makes me cry when I think of them. I lay awake at night, with my stomach in knots, knowing that there are children who are isolated, confused, angry, bitter, and depressed. They have been cut off from the world. Humans are naturally social creatures, and one of the consequences of deafness is being shut out of that social life if there are no means of communicating.

However, regardless of where the child is placed, careful consideration of his/her social development needs to be discussed and actively monitored. It's more than books and grades. It's about having all the skills to become productive, self-sufficent adults.

For those of us who were failed by the education system, we all know too well the heavy price that we paid. I actually have been diagnosed with PTSD because of it.
It is with pure and good intentions that we continue to post our stories so others will hopefully grasp the big picture through our eyes as deaf people.
 
It is with pure and good intentions that we continue to post our stories so others will hopefully grasp the big picture through our eyes as deaf people.


:gpost: :gpost:

I agree with you on this. Well done. Then that is what we will do. Thank you. :thumb:
 
deafbajagal said:
...It is with pure and good intentions that we continue to post our stories so others will hopefully grasp the big picture through our eyes as deaf people.
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Yes. Even if not every reader, especially the parents, fully agrees with the thesis of these stories, at least they will have been exposed to them. That will give them something to think about, and put them on the alert for any red flags that pop up in their child's school experience. That's probably a lot more than many parents of ADers had when they were making decisions for their deaf children's education and language choices.
 
To the hearing parents,

seriously..what DBG said is no joke. It is a serious matter and yet, we are still being taken lightly about this issue.

It is probably you think you child wont be like us or never experience what we have been trying to share.
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Dude yes!
Grendel, you HAVE learned from what we went through. That is AWESOME!!!!!! I am beyond happy that Li Li is doing so well. But I think if you had experianced even a little of what we had experianced as solotaire kids and teens, you would understand. Heck, if Li Li was mainstreamed, I can guarentee you'd be fighting for accomondations beyond bare bones accomondations.
Stories that makes me cry when I think of them. I lay awake at night, with my stomach in knots, knowing that there are children who are isolated, confused, angry, bitter, and depressed. They have been cut off from the world. Humans are naturally social creatures, and one of the consequences of deafness is being shut out of that social life if there are no means of communicating.
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And those stories prolly aren't limited to voice off or TC deaf either. I think a lot of pro mainstreamers/ educational administrators really are almost clueless as to the horrors of middle and high school. Heck maybe they are so far removed from high school, they've forgotten how bad it is...and we're talking BAD. Very bad.
 
Politics do play a role for many decisions regarding placement, unfortunately
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Yes. The fact of the matter is that school systems want to save money. They don't want to pay out for placement at a specialized school b/c they really want the money that dhh (and other disabled kids) bring to the district. So they get away with providing minimal accomondations...sigh....I also think too that deaf schools (in the eyes of admins) are seen as akin to those autism/MR/multihandicapped schools....like " Oh why should we spend all this money to educate them? They're just going to end up on disabilty or in a day program. :roll:
 
shel90 said:
And we see many newcomers post the same story here on AD when they welcome themselves. Only a rare few do say that they are happy being in the hearing world full time.

Like Jillio said...the majority is what we need to look at, not the few exceptional ones.
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I guess I'm one of the rare few... but that doesn't mean I don't have any regrets. I do wish I had more access/spent more time in the deaf community growing up and as an adult. But I do love being in the hearing world...

I do wish I could be in on some of those silent dinners. I do have stories to share about growing up mainstreamed, lessons learned and how to deal with the trials and tribulations of being severely hearing impaired in a hearing culture.
 
But what of her future when she might have some difficult time in the mainstream school if the school are not providing her with accommodations she need. The School will probably not listen to her at all when she want accommodations.
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Beobang, VERY excellent point. On one hand, I do think that if Li Li is mainstreamed, in the future she'll do better then if she went to mainstream school right out of Deaf school/program/special needs preschool. That is how mainstreaming should work.....the kid should start out in a program specificly for their disabilty, and then gradually transisistion to the mainstream. On the other hand, I do think that it seems almost universal to have major issues(socially and acaemicly) in the mainstream especially around and after fourth grade. (for both oral and Sign users)
guess I'm one of the rare few... but that doesn't mean I don't have any regrets. I do wish I had more access/spent more time in the deaf community growing up and as an adult. But I do love being in the hearing world...
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Iceman, we're not saying that the hearing world sucks. We're not seperatists. A lot of us are glad we have oral skills and can parcipatate somewhat in the hearing world.
I think shel90 is talking about people who are REALLY well adjusted and who feel 100% comfortable in the hearing world. You wish you could have had access to ASL and the Deaf world growing up ...You're right with us. We may complain a lot about being totally mainstreamed and oral, but none of us are seperatistst or "the hearing world is teh EVIL!
 
deafdyke said:
Beobang, VERY excellent point. On one hand, I do think that if Li Li is mainstreamed, in the future she'll do better then if she went to mainstream school right out of Deaf school/program/special needs preschool. That is how mainstreaming should work.....the kid should start out in a program specificly for their disabilty, and then gradually transisistion to the mainstream. On the other hand, I do think that it seems almost universal to have major issues(socially and acaemicly) in the mainstream especially around and after fourth grade. (for both oral and Sign users)
Iceman, we're not saying that the hearing world sucks. We're not seperatists. A lot of us are glad we have oral skills and can parcipatate somewhat in the hearing world.
I think shel90 is talking about people who are REALLY well adjusted and who feel 100% comfortable in the hearing world. You wish you could have had access to ASL and the Deaf world growing up ...You're right with us. We may complain a lot about being totally mainstreamed and oral, but none of us are seperatistst or "the hearing world is teh EVIL!
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I am
 
faire_jour said:
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oh and DD, at my daughter's oral school, they don't consider a child "caught up" until their verbal IQ matches their non-verbal. That is standard practice today. If you a 50th percentile kid, then the 50th percentile is fine, but if you are a 95th kid, you aren't meeting your potential until you are in the 95th.
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Thats great because I no that my verbal IQ and my non verbal dont match I wish that did.

Heres an example:

I was able to read adult large print fiction from about 7. And able to answer questions about the chapter(that I had just read silently) correctly to show my understanding - mums favorite form of homework.

But I could not and still cant read a book targeted at 7 years olds aloud
 
I think hearing people have a hard time understand because hearing does not = fitting in. Nor does being deaf at a deaf school mean you will have a great academic experience.
 
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