The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

AlleyCat said:
Going back to my question about who lives in a vacuum ...

I would be interested in hearing anyone's perspective on who/how you live in a vacuum? Someone that's so sheltered - e.g. not allowed any interaction with anyone else at any time (and thus the lack of opportunity to acquire/learn language) ? How does someone get so sheltered they do not interact? I cannot think of how this could be.

Discussion?
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1. If you are a deaf child without access to sound or a hearing child in a hearing or deaf household without sign or spoken language; language isolation isn't rare
2. If you are isolated from others (rare, but there are studied cases)
 
the "vacuum" question reminds me of this movie I saw with I believe William Hurt, allegedly based on true story - about a young hearing woman "discovered" in rural Appalachia or another very rural mountain area in U.S., who was found to have been raised by her grandmother who had had a stroke and was very very isolated and possibly fearful of outsiders. So the woman's language development as a child was impacted by the great fear she learned from her grandma and by how she heard her grandmother use any spoken language she was able to maintain after her stroke. I really only recall bits and pieces of this and am not sure if a sign language was part of this movie or not, sorry about any inconsistencies...but that's this has led me to thinking about now.

and then there's all these "feral child" cases-
 
GrendelQ said:
I know what Jillio was getting at, but with some 86% of deaf kids in mainstream environments and far more deaf and hoh people on an oral track than an ASL track, I don't understand why you would want to let the majority drive where you should be going. I intend to keep bucking the trend because it's whatvworks for my child, and can't see going oral-only just because it's the majority choice.
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Well that is because you had a choice. Many of us who were mainstreamed oral only were not given a choice so were forced to go with the 'majority' in the hearing world. We now are saying the 'majority' D/dhh who were mainstreamed oral only are saying if given the choice, they wouldn't go mainstream. Big difference.
 
BecLak said:
Well that is because you had a choice. Many of us who were mainstreamed oral only were not given a choice so were forced to go with the 'majority' in the hearing world. We now are saying the 'majority' D/dhh who were mainstreamed oral only are saying if given the choice, they wouldn't go mainstream. Big difference.
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You are mixed up. Grendel is a parent making good choices for a child.

Your parents had choices too, and chose wrong. You can't keep blaming Grendel for being a better parent.
 
Bottesini said:
You are mixed up. Grendel is a parent making good choices for a child.

Your parents had choices too, and chose wrong. You can't keep blaming Grendel for being a better parent.
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I think Beclak is saying that Grenal Q has a choice because she is hearing but we, deaf people never had a choice.
 
Would making school a strictly social experience, rather than an academic challenge, provide a better life as an adult? If a deaf child has an easy ride and lowered expectations through primary and secondary school, what does day one at MIT or Harvard feel like if the cushioning is gone and expectations are the same for all students? Or at any college where he or she is going to be exposed to brilliant minds among peers and faculty alike.

It's an issue I think about with my daughter -- I tend to want to balance her experience, at least early on, making school something she looks forward to as a social experience, slipping the learning and language development into the mix without her realizing it. But as she grows older, I expect school to become far more of a rigorous academic environment, with more opportunities to drink from the firehouse rather than be spoonfed a bit of knowledge with a side of sugar
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Grendel, on the other hand...School is not just academic, a la the Asian schools. It is also very social. We're arguing for both....meaning a magnet style or regional program, so that dhh kids have both social emotional development AND academic challenge....oh and so that they don't get lumped in with a general special ed resource room.
 
shel90 said:
I think Beclak is saying that Grenal Q has a choice because she is hearing but we, deaf people never had a choice.
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I can see where BecLak might be coming from. I remember the constant requests to my parents to transfer me to another program, another school, ANYTHING OTHER than where I was situated. I was always told no. I think that is about the biggest resentment I harbor. That it wasn't understood how incredibly difficult school was, socially-wise. I'd already proven myself academically-wise with top-notch grades, why not cut me a break and let me "fit in" for once while still learning?
 
AlleyCat said:
Going back to my question about who lives in a vacuum ...

I would be interested in hearing anyone's perspective on who/how you live in a vacuum? Someone that's so sheltered - e.g. not allowed any interaction with anyone else at any time (and thus the lack of opportunity to acquire/learn language) ? How does someone get so sheltered they do not interact? I cannot think of how this could be.

Discussion?
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Absolutely zilch/nil interaction with another human being would drive a person insane - not joke. This is a proven fact.
 
Well that is because you had a choice. Many of us who were mainstreamed oral only were not given a choice so were forced to go with the 'majority' in the hearing world. We now are saying the 'majority' D/dhh who were mainstreamed oral only are saying if given the choice, they wouldn't go mainstream. Big difference.

I think Beclak is saying that Grenal Q has a choice because she is hearing but we, deaf people never had a choice.


That is exactly the point that I have been trying for many years. Why do I have to get stucked in both mainstream elementary and high school all through the years (1954-1966)? The hearing principal and the teachers all rejected my need to get to learning how to sign and to have an ASL interpreters in the hearing classrooms.

Why are hearing people so adamant or anxious to get us to hear and picking up words when we could not understand what the teachers and students are saying in the classrooms? The hearing people don't know what it is like to trying to pick up the words (listening) with the hearing aid. With the CI, it is still the same thing just like hearing aid except it is a little bit more clearer, but listening for spoken language. No way. I don't believe that.

We are being forced to do what the hearing parents and the hearing authorities like AGBell want us to be like them as hearing people. That is why it just make me angry about having the hearing people forcing me to do what they want, not me or any other deafies. They don't care about us at all. Period. :mad:
 
AlleyCat said:
I can see where BecLak might be coming from. I remember the constant requests to my parents to transfer me to another program, another school, ANYTHING OTHER than where I was situated. I was always told no. I think that is about the biggest resentment I harbor. That it wasn't understood how incredibly difficult school was, socially-wise. I'd already proven myself academically-wise with top-notch grades, why not cut me a break and let me "fit in" for once while still learning?
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:gpost: :gpost:

That is what I felt that I need to go to another school to get the education that I needed without having to struggle trying to understand what I am suppose to learn. The mainstream school is not helping me at all. I wanted to learn and I was starving to learn where I can understand what the teachers and the students are saying in the hearing classrooms. :(
 
The day I dropped out of high school (it would be months before I went to the deaf school to finish out high school) was the day it dawned on me that it was Thursday and that not one single soul that week...not a friend, teacher, janitor, cafetaria worker, bus driver...talked to me. I didn't understand them well, and thus I didn't talk much. But no one talked to me. It became too difficult to communicate. I was truly, truly alone.

And I stood up, walked out of the classroom, emptied my locker, and went in the counselor's office to announce I was leaving. Just like that, I left.

Bec, Beb, DD, Shel, Dixie, Ally...and I'm sure there's more...all in the same boat as me.

We all learned to speak, to the best of our ability, to mainstream. Why didn't anyone listen?
 
Reba said:
I know. I said it isn't acquired in a vacuum.
It is acquired but not in a vacuum.
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Yes, I understood that later. It's funny how a comma, or lack of a comma, changes context. I had initially read that as "Language isn't acquired*,* or used in a vacuum". Your post didn't have that comma, but my mind put it in there.
 
Bottesini said:
You are mixed up. Grendel is a parent making good choices for a child.

Your parents had choices too, and chose wrong. You can't keep blaming Grendel for being a better parent.
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Yes, Grendel has made some very good choices for her child. She is very blessed to be in that school. That is what I am saying. She was able to make those choices. My parents were never given any options, were not informed of the Deaf community and sign language, so I was not exposed to anything but mainstream/oral only environments. No fault of my parents. My parents were and are very understanding and supportive under the circumstances. I know that if they were given the choices Grendel had, they would have embraced sign language, had they known that it was the 'natural' language for me. My mother recently expressed, after coming the realisation of all the difficulties I faced in communication, that even at her age now, she would learn sign language for me at least as much as she could. All my life, all we were told was I was HOH, but only 2 years ago or less I discovered I was in fact severely-deaf. That came as no surprise to me as it explained a lot of things to me. As for my hearing family, it came as quite a shock to them and they are still adjusting to this 'new' revelation.
 
AlleyCat said:
Going back to my question about who lives in a vacuum ...

I would be interested in hearing anyone's perspective on who/how you live in a vacuum? Someone that's so sheltered - e.g. not allowed any interaction with anyone else at any time (and thus the lack of opportunity to acquire/learn language) ? How does someone get so sheltered they do not interact? I cannot think of how this could be.

Discussion?
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There have been cases of children being kept isolated by force from human contact. I wouldn't call it sheltered but imprisoned. There have also been stories about feral children who weren't imprisoned but were isolated from other humans.

It certainly wouldn't be a normal existence.
 
BecLak said:
Yes, Grendel has made some very good choices for her child. She is very blessed to be in that school. That is what I am saying. She was able to make those choices. My parents were never given any options, were not informed of the Deaf community and sign language, so I was not exposed to anything but mainstream/oral only environments. No fault of my parents. My parents were and are very understanding and supportive under the circumstances. I know that if they were given the choices Grendel had, they would have embraced sign language, had they known that it was the 'natural' language for me. My mother recently expressed, after coming the realisation of all the difficulties I faced in communication, that even at her age now, she would learn sign language for me at least as much as she could. All my life, all we were told was I was HOH, but only 2 years ago or less I discovered I was in fact severely-deaf. That came as no surprise to me as it explained a lot of things to me. As for my hearing family, it came as quite a shock to them and they are still adjusting to this 'new' revelation.
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My parents were told to put me in an institution and forget me. Fortunately they persevered, and I got to go to school and develop into somewhat of a human being.

The type of school they fought to have me in is somewhat immaterial to me, but I am glad they were willing to take time to help me develop, even if a lot of it was quite unpleasant.

Parents do the best they can, and hindsight is immaterial.
 
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