Stars in a cave

[Vance]

'Delighted were archeologists to discover a prehistoric cavewall painting of the Pleiades star group, "Seven Sisters." But surprised were they that the ancient artist painted ten stars, four of which we need telescopes to see. Natural guess: stars were brighter then. Astronomers said "No." ... the artist had seen all ten stars with his naked eye.

Correct assumption: cave men had better eyesight than modern men.

By Weston A Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.


That will be nice if I can do that.

 

[VamPyroX]

Wow, that's interesting! Yeah, cavemen were physically better in a lot of things than most modern men.

 

[Levonian]

Very true. It’s well known that Homo neanderthalensis (Neanderthal Man) were larger and had bigger brains than modern man.

 

[Beowulf]

SSShhhh, shhhhh...do not upset the Creationists, the apparent Chosen People in here...

 

[Reba]

SSShhhh, shhhhh...do not upset the Creationists, the apparent Chosen People in here...

Actually, Creationists believe that God created Adam as a perfect man. After Adam sinned, each following generation was born with more imperfection. That means the opposite of evolution. Each generation becomes more defective physically.

The early generations lived for hundreds of years, had superior intelligence and strength. That would include superior eyesight.

People now depend on medications, eye glasses, hearing aids, etc.

 

[Beowulf]

I suppose that is why creationists hate science so much.
They go crazy because they cannot refute fact.
Too bad.

 

[DeafSCUBA98]

or pharaps that there's no city lights druing that time.. u notice when u're in city its barely almost impossible to see shooting star cuz of city lights .. and if you are in country farm land u can see shooting star much eaiser than in cities.. cuz no city lights. heh? that's my other theory... back druing cave times there's not much city lights...

 

[Reba]

I suppose that is why creationists hate science so much.
They go crazy because they cannot refute fact.
Too bad.

Creationists do not hate science. Many scientists are creationists. They don't "go crazy", and evolution is not fact so there is nothing to refute.

 

[Reba]

or pharaps that there's no city lights druing that time.. u notice when u're in city its barely almost impossible to see shooting star cuz of city lights .. and if you are in country farm land u can see shooting star much eaiser than in cities.. cuz no city lights. heh? that's my other theory... back druing cave times there's not much city lights...

That certainly could be an influence too. I know that many amatuer astronomers are frustrated now days because they have a hard time finding non-light-polluted areas to set up their telescopes.

 

[Vance]

Creationists do not hate science. Many scientists are creationists. They don't "go crazy", and evolution is not fact so there is nothing to refute.

Ok, let's have fun with discussing about that. In some way, you are right that evolution exactly hasn't been proved and I also believe in God & Jesus but can you prove me with hard evidences that God is real and exist?

DeafSCUBA98, your theory is interesting but what I learned from other books (I am studying to be a doctor) that cavemen can see the fires and movements (walking, running, wandering, etc) in 50 - 100 miles away during nights.

Edit: Fixed few things. Wow... I really screwed up in this post.

 

[Beowulf]

I suppose fossils are not facts, either, according to the creationists.
The fossils are there for absolutely no reason, apparently.
Evolution IS a fact and we ought to keep teaching that in schools instead of the total nonsense of Man appearing one day by a magic puff of smoke because of a God believed in only by a minority of the world.
Name one legitimate scientist who is a creationist.

 

[Reba]

...can you prove me with hard evidences that God is real and exist?

No, because if you refuse to believe, then all the facts in the world won't change your mind. Many people refused to believe in Jesus even when He lived on earth and they could see Him, talk to Him, and touch Him. So, no, I can't prove God exists to someone who refuses to believe.

For me, the proof that God exists is all around. I see it in His creation of the universe. I see it in the miracle of birth. I see Jesus in the miracle of a sinner's life transformed.

Even if a person believes that God exists, that is not enough. Satan believes (and knows) that God exists, but Satan is still doomed to the lake of fire.

I can answer specific questions about God and the Bible, or give you links to others who have more details, but I can't change your mind. Only the Holy Spirit can convince you to willingly accept the truth. Even then, YOU (or any person) must do it willingly, not thru force.

 

[Reba]

I suppose fossils are not facts, either, according to the creationists.

Fossils are facts. The interpretation of fossils is the dispute.

Evolution IS a fact and we ought to keep teaching that in schools

Which evolution? Even the evolution "experts" don't agree on their theories. So, which one would you teach as "fact"?

...instead of the total nonsense of Man appearing one day by a magic puff of smoke because of a God believed in only by a minority of the world.

I don't know anyone who teaches that. That certainly isn't the creationist viewpoint.

Name one legitimate scientist who is a creationist.

1. Dr. Thomas G. Barnes, physicist
author of Foundations of Electricity and Magnetism
former professor of physics at University of Texas, El Paso
Director of Schellenger Research Labs

2. Dr. Edward Blick, aerospace scientist
former professor of aerospace, mechanical, and nuclear engineering, and formerly Associate Dean of Engineering, University of Oklahoma
co-author of textbook, Fluid Mechanics and Heat Transfer

3. Dr. David R. Boylan, engineering administrator
former Dean of the College ofEngineering at Iowa State University
BS in Chemical Engineering, University of Kansas
PhD, Iowa State
Director of Iowa State's Engineering Research Institute

4. Larry Butler, biochemist
PhD, UCLA
former professor of biochemistry, Purdue University

5. Kenneth B. Cumming, biologist
degrees from Tufts and Harvard in biology,
PhD in ecology from Harvard University
formerly on faculty at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University as an Adjunct Professor in the Department of Forestry and Wildlife.
Chief of Program Operations, Office of Bilological Services, Washington, DC

6. Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, engineering scientist
PhD, engineering mechanics, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
associate professor, aerospace engineering, Auburn University


I am getting tired of typing, but if you want more, I will get them.

 

[Banjo]

Even if a person believes that God exists, that is not enough. Satan believes (and knows) that God exists, but Satan is still doomed to the lake of fire.

Wasn't Satan known as a fallen angel and the first angel to challenge God's will?

If Lucifer is his name, then why do they call him Satan?

 

[Reba]

Wasn't Satan known as a fallen angel and the first angel to challenge God's will?

Yes.

If Lucifer is his name, then why do they call him Satan?

Satan has many names, in all languages (including ASL).
Some are:
Lucifer
Satan
the Devil
the Accuser
the Serpent
Beelzebub
Prince of Evil
Adversary
Prince of this world
Prince of the power of the air
The Evil One

They all refer to the same being.

 

[Reba]

Yes.


Satan has many names, in all languages (including ASL).
Some are:
Lucifer
Satan
the Devil
the Accuser
the Serpent
Beelzebub
Prince of Evil
Adversary
Prince of this world
Prince of the power of the air
The Evil One

They all refer to the same being.

Very weird. When I hit the "submit reply" button, I got an error msg and had to send again. In all my many hundreds of postings, I never before got that msg. Maybe the prince of the power of the air didn't like this post!

 

[Banjo]

Interesting, thanks for telling me.

 

[Vance]

No, because if you refuse to believe, then all the facts in the world won't change your mind. Many people refused to believe in Jesus even when He lived on earth and they could see Him, talk to Him, and touch Him. So, no, I can't prove God exists to someone who refuses to believe.

For me, the proof that God exists is all around. I see it in His creation of the universe. I see it in the miracle of birth. I see Jesus in the miracle of a sinner's life transformed.

Even if a person believes that God exists, that is not enough. Satan believes (and knows) that God exists, but Satan is still doomed to the lake of fire.

I can answer specific questions about God and the Bible, or give you links to others who have more details, but I can't change your mind. Only the Holy Spirit can convince you to willingly accept the truth. Even then, YOU (or any person) must do it willingly, not thru force.

You have few interesting points. I would say that many people in different countries included America said same thing about christians. Most christians tend to not pay their respects to environment. Does that means they will cast to the hell for that? After all God created the environment and say that we have to pay our respect for his creation a.k.a. environment and told us to be caretakers. From where I stand, I don't see them paying their respects but I rather to not judge like they did.

Well, you obviously believe in God & Jesus and maybe practice what God and Jesus preach (I rather to not judge because I don't know you and I refuse to judge). But I know many christians does not. Good example: gay marriage ban. Jesus told us to not impose our beliefs on people or judge them yet many christians did by voting to ban gay marriage. Now that's interesting. Does that means they will cast to the hell because they judge and repeatedly impose their beliefs on people? 99.99999% probability but again, I don't want to judge them or impose my beliefs on them like they did to gays or women who wants to have abortion. Now, most liberals did by not judging anyone and paying their respects for gays, women who want to have abortion, God's creation a.k.a. environment, etc etc...

If we look into history of christianity, we will realize that christians or any religious groups have long, long history of 'causing' lot of bloodbath wars in different countries plus imposing their beliefs on other foreigners. While liberals... I couldn't find any references that they did 'cause' the bloodbath wars (beside the fact that Jesus shared his beliefs about social equality and etc then his own people crucified him for that. Now that's interesting). I guess because they are practicing what Jesus preach by not judge, by not impose their beliefs on others as such thing as gay marriage or abortion, by respect the environment, list go on and on? Who will cast to the hell? That's why I found your post very interesting to read.

However I do believe in God and Jesus, the best part is that I practice what they preach. That is very important part in our life, that's why I feel that I will not cast to the hell (that if there is such exist but let's not discuss about it) if I didn't go to church or whatever christians and many religious groups did. After all, I didn't impose my beliefs on gays and women who want to have abortions, I always pay my respect for God's creations a.k.a animals & environment, etc.

God told us to NOT define what's right, what's wrong... and yet larger percent of religious groups did. Let's not forget that Jesus purified his sins and fasting in the wilderness. why did he do that? Simply because wilderness is much more pure than churches ever will be since it is God's creation after all and Jesus paid his respects in there. So why did many groups not pay their respects for environment...? That's why Native Americans state that christians or whoever will be suffer greatly because they didn't pay their respects for environment. I guess they know something that many religious groups does not. Famous quote: What go around come around.

No, because if you refuse to believe, then all the facts in the world won't change your mind. Many people refused to believe in Jesus even when He lived on earth and they could see Him, talk to Him, and touch Him. So, no, I can't prove God exists to someone who refuses to believe.

Scientists may say same things about christians or any religious groups. They believe in evolution, we even could touch it, we could see it, we could smell it.. so does it mean any more real than Jesus? I want to be devil's advocate on that part. Like what I said above, God forbids us from defining what's right and what's wrong.

To sum up, yes I do believe in God & Jesus simply because I already practice what they preach. However I still didn't see any hard evidences that God is exist and yet religious groups claimed that evolution is not exist. I failed to see their points *shrugs*

Ok, I am done with ranting.

 

[Levonian]

4. Larry Butler, biochemist
PhD, UCLA
former professor of biochemistry, Purdue University

He's involved in gerontological research, isn't he?

 

[Reba]

I have to go back to work in a little while, so I will begin to answer this post but I probably won't have time to finish tonight.

Most christians tend to not pay their respects to environment.

That is a very broad, general statement that cannot be proven, so there is no way I can answer that. That sounds like an opinon, not a statistic. Give me some specifics, then I can reply.

And despite what you say, that is a very judgmental statement. Yes, you do judge.

But I know many christians does not. Good example: gay marriage ban. Jesus told us to not impose our beliefs on people or judge them yet many christians did by voting to ban gay marriage. Now that's interesting. Does that means they will cast to the hell because they judge and repeatedly impose their beliefs on people? 99.99999% probability but again, I don't want to judge them or impose my beliefs on them like they did to gays or women who wants to have abortion. Now, most liberals did by not judging anyone and paying their respects for gays, women who want to have abortion, God's creation a.k.a. environment, etc etc...

This requires a lengthy reply. I will try to answer tonight, if I get home in time.

If we look into history of christianity, we will realize that christians or any religious groups have long, long history of 'causing' lot of bloodbath wars in different countries plus imposing their beliefs on other foreigners.

There is a big difference between "religious groups" and true Christians. Real Christians know that trust in Jesus cannot be forced. False Christians can use the name Christ to support whatever action they want. There is no way to prevent false Christian groups from using the name of Christ in wrong ways. Sadly, there is no copyright or patent on "Christian".

If you want to discuss specif events, please let me know. I cannot give a specific answer to such a general question. Ask me about the Inquistion or the Crusades, or some other specific event. You are being too broad.

While liberals... I couldn't find any references that they did 'cause' the bloodbath wars...

Again, too general. I don't have time to review entire world history. Please be specific.

While liberals...are practicing what Jesus preach by not judge, by not impose their beliefs on others as such thing as gay marriage or abortion, by respect the environment, list go on and on?

Very ironic that you state that. From everything you write, it seems you (and "liberals") are very quick to judge anyone who does not agree with them. You especially judge Christians as often as possible.

Who will cast to the hell?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Do you mean who will be cast into hell? Or do you mean who will do the casting into hell? Please clarify for me.

However I do believe in God and Jesus, the best part is that I practice what they preach.

God preaches that we should live holy and obey His commandments. Jesus preaches that we must be born again. He preaches that He is the only way to the Father. Jesus preaches that we are to love the brethren (fellow Christians). Are those the things that you practice?

That is very important part in our life, that's why I feel that I will not cast to the hell (that if there is such exist but let's not discuss about it)

If you truly practice (do) what Jesus preaches, then you believe in hell, and you believe you are a sinner that deserves hell, and you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and you believe Jesus was resurrected after three days dead, and you believe that you repent your sins and accept Jesus as Savior. That is what Jesus preached, so that is what you practice. Right?

God told us to NOT define what's right, what's wrong...

We don't have to because God already defined right and wrong for us in His Bible. That is why He gave us the Ten Commandments in the Old Testatment, and Jesus gave us parables and explanation in the New Testament.

Let's not forget that Jesus purified his sins and fasting in the wilderness.

Jesus fasted in the wilderness but not for His sins. Jesus never sinned. He had no sins. None. Zero. Zip.

Simply because wilderness is much more pure than churches ever will be since it is God's creation

The church was established by God at Pentecost, which was 40 days after Jesus ascended to Heaven. When Jesus lived on earth there was no church. The church is God's creation, the same as He created the universe.
Please do not confuse God's church of believers with religious denominations.

Like what I said above, God forbids us from defining what's right and what's wrong.

Not true. I will give you the references later.

I do believe in God & Jesus simply because I already practice what they preach. However I still didn't see any hard evidences that God is exist.

Why do you believe in God and Jesus, and say that you practice what they preach if you don't see any "evidence" that they exist???