Sign language and grammar

[jillio]

Oh okay, I will read more on Linguistics but I thought lingusitics is the scientific study of the language? I understand the definition LOL. So If I enjoy ASL and SEE , I must be PSE since it's neither ASL or SEE. I use both combination of ASL and SEE. Is that the better answer that I am using? Teach me as much as you can becaeuse My mind is a terrible thing to waste LOL. I am sure everyone is learning something new. Heck, when I came back to the states, I couldn't speak english well and my sign language was terrible! Until I met my wife and she help me learn my langauge and everything came back to me. I am just fortunate to be able to communicate in many languages. Thank you for all your replies. Hope we all learn something new from each other! Gotta have a open mind!

If you are combining ASL and English in your signing, then you are using PSE. PSE is a signing system that has evolved through cultural contact, but it is not a language in and of itself. It is another MCE.

 

[Roger]

ASL as in American Sign LANGUAGE

Languages do not come in spoken forms only and that is what's so great about the human mind.

Oh i know that language come in many forms. I guess since ASL ends with the word "language", it's a langauge but if it's ends with the word "English", it's not a language. Doens't make any sense because English is a langauge. So I am lost!

I take it that some of you are expert linguists?

This is interesting! And i find it funny that some of you try to give me a hint as "boy he is dumb!" Hey, it's alright caue My wife think I can be dumb too hahaha.

I may not have a degree in linguistics but I do have a degree in Accounting and Bibical Studies. I just want to learn as much as I can. But you gotta give me some credit for trying to learn new things. Well, at least I can write Japanese, English and Spanish. I am learning Hebrew and Greek now, boy I tell ya, My brain is fixing to blow up!

Okay, Can I say I am PSE since I combine ASL with SEE? Or that wrong way to put it?

 

[Roger]

If you are combining ASL and English in your signing, then you are using PSE. PSE is a signing system that has evolved through cultural contact, but it is not a language in and of itself. It is another MCE.

Is PSE common use in deaf world? Because I have seen that people from California and People from Chicago or Oklahoma City have their own signs. Is sign langauge varies from state to state?

 

[jillio]

Is PSE common use in deaf world? Because I have seen that people from California and People from Chicago or Oklahoma City have their own signs. Is sign langauge varies from state to state?

Yes, signs will vary some from state to state, just like oral pronunciation of words will vary from state to state, and certain idioms are common in some areas, but not in others.

Most of the deaf I know can sign either PSE or ASL. My son learned ASL as a baby, but when signing with hearing signers, he will usually switch to more of a PSE syntax and grammar. All of the students at the Deaf school he attended were very good at code switching. They use ASL when communicating with other deaf, but more PSE when communicating with hearing signers. A lot of deaf who came to ASL late after having been oral for many years will use more of a PSE syntax at first because they are so accustomed to English syntax and grammar. Very few of the deaf that I have come to know are straight ASL only, and can code switch from ASL to PSE depending on who they are communicating with and what they are comfortable with. Usually, PSE is easier receptively for hearing signers.

 

[Reba]

Oh i know that language come in many forms. I guess since ASL ends with the word "language", it's a langauge but if it's ends with the word "English", it's not a language. Doens't make any sense because English is a langauge. So I am lost!

I take it that some of you are expert linguists?

This is interesting! And i find it funny that some of you try to give me a hint as "boy he is dumb!" Hey, it's alright caue My wife think I can be dumb too hahaha.

I may not have a degree in linguistics but I do have a degree in Accounting and Bibical Studies. I just want to learn as much as I can. But you gotta give me some credit for trying to learn new things. Well, at least I can write Japanese, English and Spanish. I am learning Hebrew and Greek now, boy I tell ya, My brain is fixing to blow up!

Okay, Can I say I am PSE since I combine ASL with SEE? Or that wrong way to put it?

SEE is not itself a language. It is a manual form of English.

English is a language that can be used in many different forms or modes. It can be spoken, written, manually signed, or represented by Braille symbols, semaphore flags, or Morse codes.

When ASL is used, it is used as its own language. It does not represent English or any other language. One does not need to know English in order to use ASL. People can communicate in ASL without ever being exposed to spoken or written English.

BTW, there is no way that I think you are "dumb". I to anyone who can fathom accounting and all those other languages.

 

[jillio]

Oh i know that language come in many forms. I guess since ASL ends with the word "language", it's a langauge but if it's ends with the word "English", it's not a language. Doens't make any sense because English is a langauge. So I am lost!

I take it that some of you are expert linguists?

This is interesting! And i find it funny that some of you try to give me a hint as "boy he is dumb!" Hey, it's alright caue My wife think I can be dumb too hahaha.

I may not have a degree in linguistics but I do have a degree in Accounting and Bibical Studies. I just want to learn as much as I can. But you gotta give me some credit for trying to learn new things. Well, at least I can write Japanese, English and Spanish. I am learning Hebrew and Greek now, boy I tell ya, My brain is fixing to blow up!

Okay, Can I say I am PSE since I combine ASL with SEE? Or that wrong way to put it?

First of all, you are not dumb! I admire you for wanting to learn and understand. Actually, SEE is a system that combines ASL signs and English grammar and syntax. Every word is signed, as well as word endings, etc., and signs are initialized.

It is possible to use some features of SEE such as the initialized signs, but to omit others such as word endings, etc. To make it even more confusing, there are actually 2 systems known as SEE....SEE1 and SEE2. SEE1 is Signing Exact English, and SEE2 is Seeing Essential English. SEE2 would be more like the use of initialized signs, etc, but omitting things such as "a" or "an" or "ing", and signing in English sytax.

 

[deafskeptic]

When ASL is used, it is used as its own language. It does not represent English or any other language. One does not need to know English in order to use ASL. People can communicate in ASL without ever being exposed to spoken or written English.

That's correct. I remember when I went to the deaf club years ago, for some reason a lot of deaf Mexicans came there too. One of the Mexicans' mother came too and she hardly knew any English and I didn't know enough Spanish to talk to her so we used ASL and we understood each other via ASL. She told me she learned ASL from her son. The Deaf Mexicans wouldn't use Mexican Sign language with us but when they signed among themselves, we couldn't understand a thing.

 

[shel90]

Oh i know that language come in many forms. I guess since ASL ends with the word "language", it's a langauge but if it's ends with the word "English", it's not a language. Doens't make any sense because English is a langauge. So I am lost!

I take it that some of you are expert linguists?

This is interesting! And i find it funny that some of you try to give me a hint as "boy he is dumb!" Hey, it's alright caue My wife think I can be dumb too hahaha.

I may not have a degree in linguistics but I do have a degree in Accounting and Bibical Studies. I just want to learn as much as I can. But you gotta give me some credit for trying to learn new things. Well, at least I can write Japanese, English and Spanish. I am learning Hebrew and Greek now, boy I tell ya, My brain is fixing to blow up!

Okay, Can I say I am PSE since I combine ASL with SEE? Or that wrong way to put it?

Never crossed my mind that you are dumb. I bolded the language red cuz I that is the only way I can think of to show emphasis that ASL is its own language.

 

[InnocentOdion]

Simple way to explain it, maybe?

SEE: It's still English, but signed English and is designed to be as English as possible. "I am go-ing to the store"?
PSE: English-Sign hybrid. Uses the signs from Sign, but more English-like grammar. "I go store"?
A/B/XSL: Has its own grammar completely different and not like English at all. "Store go"?

 

[jillio]

Simple way to explain it, maybe?

SEE: It's still English, but signed English and is designed to be as English as possible. "I am go-ing to the store"?
PSE: English-Sign hybrid. Uses the signs from Sign, but more English-like grammar. "I go store"?
A/B/XSL: Has its own grammar completely different and not like English at all. "Store go"?

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[VamPyroX]

Semaphore and Morse users can follow proper English too, but I wouldn't want to carry on conversations that way.

That aside, when SEE users follow "proper English", they are using the English language. When ASL users follow "proper ASL", they are using American Sign Language. English and ASL are two separate languages, just like English and French are two separate languages.

English has various modes of transmission--spoken, printed, brailed, tapped out in Morse, signaled in semaphore, or signed manually in SEE. They are all representations of one language--English. They are NOT individual languages.

That's right.

Therefore, English should be taught properly in public schools and ASL be left at home.

It's like those Spanish-speaking families. Their kids go to school and use English, but when they go home... they use Spanish.

For ASL users, they go to school and use SEE... then go home and use ASL.

 

[Roger]

I am sure glad that you are teaching me as much. I know I am hard of hearing to where I am almost profoundly deaf. I learned so much languages because I had no choice. My mom is japanese, my dad is mexican-american so that right there were 3 langauges plus I had to learn SEE, ASL, and JSL. Learning all those languages were tough to learn all at the same time. But now I am older, and lookking back, I am very appreciative of what I have learned. I can write, and speak those langauges. I am able to acquire a degree In accounting and bibical studies. So all those exepiences I had as a military brat and living in different countries, had help me get to where I am. No matter how old I get, my mind is never to old to learn new things. So if you got wisdom you could share with me, feed me your wisdom LOL. I got alot of room in my puny little brain to absorb your wisdom LOL. THank you all and keep in touch!

 

[shel90]

That's right.

Therefore, English should be taught properly in public schools and ASL be left at home.

It's like those Spanish-speaking families. Their kids go to school and use English, but when they go home... they use Spanish.

For ASL users, they go to school and use SEE... then go home and use ASL.

Has been tried...doesnt work. Signing SEE makes the lessons too confusing for the kids especially those with language delays.