Old ASL signs vs New signs

ms_redcat said:
According to our ASL book, the sign for "Coke" (as in soda) involves crossing one hand over the body and touching the opposite upper arm with the L-hand. My ASL teacher very firmly told us not to do that, because people will think you're signing "heroin." He fingerspells it.

"Dog" upstate: slap thigh, snap fingers, like you're calling a dog.

"Dog" in New York: move hand behind ear, like a dog scratching itself.
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I live in New York too. And on Long Island I have never seen the second example of "dog" used.
As for the sign for "Coke" I was told to use the sign "soda-pop" The middle finger is inserted in the hole of a loosely made S handshape and then the middle finger is pulled out and the palm of the hand is placed on top of the thumb side of the S handshape.
And even that one has been 'modified' to the palm of the hand is placed on top of the thumb side of the S handshape then rises above to imitate the carbonation.
 
ms_redcat said:
Is this an old ASL versus new ASL thing, or a regional thing?

According to our ASL book, the sign for "Coke" (as in soda) involves crossing one hand over the body and touching the opposite upper arm with the L-hand. My ASL teacher very firmly told us not to do that, because people will think you're signing "heroin." He fingerspells it.

Another one of my sign teachers had to change her sign name when she moved from the South to New York. She used to sign P-O. Here, that means "post office."

I grew up about two hours from where I live now, and my aunt and uncle are both deaf. There are several signs that are done differently up there.

"Dog" upstate: slap thigh, snap fingers, like you're calling a dog.

"Dog" in New York: move hand behind ear, like a dog scratching itself.

"Cat" with both hands vs. "cat" with two hands.

And so on.
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Coke sign like a shot is followed by "drink". Is your ASL teacher deaf?

Only asking as it is one of my favorite signs and impossible to misunderstand.
 
ms_redcat said:
Is this an old ASL versus new ASL thing, or a regional thing?

According to our ASL book, the sign for "Coke" (as in soda) involves crossing one hand over the body and touching the opposite upper arm with the L-hand. My ASL teacher very firmly told us not to do that, because people will think you're signing "heroin." He fingerspells it.

Another one of my sign teachers had to change her sign name when she moved from the South to New York. She used to sign P-O. Here, that means "post office."

I grew up about two hours from where I live now, and my aunt and uncle are both deaf. There are several signs that are done differently up there.

"Dog" upstate: slap thigh, snap fingers, like you're calling a dog.

"Dog" in New York: move hand behind ear, like a dog scratching itself.

"Cat" with both hands vs. "cat" with two hands.

And so on.
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ha ha yes my mom still signs for DOG (move hand behind ear, just like a dog scratching itself.) We are from Long Island (NY) ;) I love to sign old one for dog. lol.
 
I get caught up in this. I first learned sign language back before it was generally considered a language.

BTW I've been told I have no right to these opinions on ASL because I am hearing, but I still have them, and I do consider myself part of the signing community.

Two signs we used were "and" and "that" which are both now considered to be SEE, not ASL, It is like SEE stole two perfectly good ASL signs. BTW the sign "that" meant "it" and "this" and "those" and all the other signs SEE thought it was necessary to create extra signs for. One sign did it all, and was not used all the time as in English, but was handy once in a while.

On the other hand all a sudden there are all these initialized signs. Take the sign for group, it used to be pretty much of a classifier. A football group was obviously a team of football players -- Oh no -- Now you have to initialize it with a "t" or it means "class".

You can't sign kitchen any more with "cook" and "B" shape hand classifiers -- You have to initialize the flat hand shapes with "r" for room.

I was called to task recently because I signed "freedom" with the two "s" hands breaking the chains -- Now you have to initialize whether you mean "freedom" "saved" "Liberty" -- Why? So it will be easier to understand for English speakers?

Then I was told not to use the sign "two hands on wheel" for car. The new sign is two "C" hands back to back and one pulls back to the signer. When I asked "Why would you use that?" I was told:

"We want our language to be more abstract, less iconic, and therefore more like a real language."

WTF?

That battle is over. We won. ASL is a recognized language -- With Iconic signs -- you don't have to "make" it more abstract to prove anything. It is a language, it probably will grow more abstract over time, but hey that is just the way language is. No need to push it.

I agree with Diehard biker about ASL not changing in its most significant aspects. The grammar is still the same. The only difference I find there is when I was a kid 50 years ago no one corrected someone else with "That is not true ASL" people either did their best to understand each other or they didn't.

I try to learn and use the politically correct signs, but to me also it seems silly. Either a person's eyes are slanted or they are not. If they are what can be insulting about it? It is just an easily observed feature.

If you are fat and you are insulted because someone says you are fat then to me it can only mean one thing -- You hate yourself -- And if you were skinny you would hate something else about yourself. So now I'm supposed to refrain from mentioning you have blonde hair because you don't like that about yourself/
 
You will have to think about the word "gay". It was pretty popular word back in the 40's and 50's... but language changes.
 
"Politically correct signs."

I don't view them as being politically correct-- more like borrowing signs from other country's sign languages.

Kinda like how English borrow words from the Danes and Japanese and so on.
 
souggy said:
"Politically correct signs."

I don't view them as being politically correct-- more like borrowing signs from other country's sign languages.

Kinda like how English borrow words from the Danes and Japanese and so on.
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It makes more sense put that way.
 
Juli-terp-to-be said:
As for the sign for "Coke" I was told to use the sign "soda-pop" The middle finger is inserted in the hole of a loosely made S handshape and then the middle finger is pulled out and the palm of the hand is placed on top of the thumb side of the S handshape.
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I've seen that one too -- is it "Coke" specifically or "soda" in general?
 
Bottesini said:
Coke sign like a shot is followed by "drink". Is your ASL teacher deaf?

Only asking as it is one of my favorite signs and impossible to misunderstand.
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Yes, he's Deaf. He's from Canada and went to a school for the deaf there, then went to Gallaudet. (The school I'm going to is Deaf-owned and run, and all of the teachers are Deaf.)

Now, he didn't say the sign _means_ "shooting drugs," he said it _looks like_ that's what you're saying. He might also have meant that's his personal opinion of the sign.

We're lucky to have teachers from several parts of the country, so we can get nice and confused :)

I gather there's other "differences of opinion" signs. When I was growing up, my aunt and uncle had two different signs for "shoes." One thought the sign the other did was a very rude word for something else. My cousin just did one in front of her mom and a different one in front of her dad.
 
ms_redcat said:
Yes, he's Deaf. He's from Canada and went to a school for the deaf there, then went to Gallaudet. (The school I'm going to is Deaf-owned and run, and all of the teachers are Deaf.)

Now, he didn't say the sign _means_ "shooting drugs," he said it _looks like_ that's what you're saying. He might also have meant that's his personal opinion of the sign.

We're lucky to have teachers from several parts of the country, so we can get nice and confused :)

I gather there's other "differences of opinion" signs. When I was growing up, my aunt and uncle had two different signs for "shoes." One thought the sign the other did was a very rude word for something else. My cousin just did one in front of her mom and a different one in front of her dad.
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Oh, you know it really is a pun. It is a sign that first half means "coke" the drug, then you add drink and it becomes "Coca Cola."
 
ms_redcat said:
I've seen that one too -- is it "Coke" specifically or "soda" in general?
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I was told to use the "soda-pop" sign then fingerspell Coke or Pepsi..or what ever brandname I wanted.
The other sign was thought to have a bad connotation to it.
 
Bottesini said:
Oh, you know it really is a pun. It is a sign that first half means "coke" the drug, then you add drink and it becomes "Coca Cola."
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Man I am a daring signer. I think most people just think it is funny.

Of course now, people will probably come out of the woodwork to tell me nothing about it is funny.
 
Juli-terp-to-be said:
I was told to use the "soda-pop" sign then fingerspell Coke or Pepsi..or what ever brandname I wanted.
The other sign was thought to have a bad connotation to it.
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That's because the other sign IS a sign for drugs.

At least according to the book I got on drug-use signs anyway.
 
For one thing, it seems a lot of ppl have gotten off-topic and/or misunderstand the intent of this thread. For some reason, some people started talking about syntax and grammar - which is totally off-topic for this thread. It's a discussion about new signs vs old signs.

Is this an old ASL versus new ASL thing, or a regional thing?
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Not a regional thing. This is old sign vs new sign.

Let me ask again - do you prefer new signs to old signs? For example, do you prefer to sign "car" with both hands in a C handshape being pulled apart (new sign) or do you prefer the old sign which looks like moving a car's steering wheel.

I have seen some confusion whenever young deaf people converse with older deaf people. Young people using signs which the older deaf people have never seen before. When I say "older deaf people", I don't necessary mean deaf people who are in their 80s or 90s. Older deaf people - maybe only 10 years older than the younger deaf person.
 
Bottesini said:
Man I am a daring signer. I think most people just think it is funny.
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Now knowing it's a pun, I think it's funny too!

I wonder if my sign teacher was telling us that because we're beginning signers, mostly hearing (except for me and a few other HOH/late-deafened people), and pretty clueless, so we're not likely to realize it's a pun.

He specifically said he doesn't like the "shooting drugs" sign around children, so that might be it. I see his point -- there are people in my class who have HOH, deaf or autistic kids, or who work with kids, and are learning sign for that reason.
 
Guys, I could not resist passing along this wonderful video. Yes, it is on topic.
I would consider this man, Ernest Marshall, (1910 - 1999) a deaf leader and filmaker, to be somewhat of an authority on the topic. His sign is a bit stiff at his age. Be patient.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhM_dZHjjas&feature=related"]YouTube - ernestoldsigns[/ame]
http://webbytalents.com/play.php?vid=382
I hope you enjoy a bit of his 1934 film, he is the starring character. Notice the signing. Great display of the times. This one is a real silent film titled Its Too Late.

http://webbytalents.com/play.php?vid=382
 
Bottesini said:
Oh, you know it really is a pun. It is a sign that first half means "coke" the drug, then you add drink and it becomes "Coca Cola."
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It is a pun, and I love puns, but behind this pun is a history --

When it was first invented Coke was made with a bit of The Real Thing.

And it stayed that way until laws controlling cocaine (called lauaenum at the time) went into effect.

I grow tired of societies anti humor campaign.
 
Lantana said:
I am one of the die hards. I still use the *not* politically correct geographic signs. People forget that ASL is a VISUAL language and an oriental person's eye's are different, which is very visual to us! The same as being FAT (fat cheeks) or SKINNY (using the two pinkie fingers). Our ASL was fine until hearing people jumped into it and tried to "save" us.
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I'm afraid the introduction of signed English systems in the schools as replacements for ASL has been the biggest "blow up" since the Milan Conference. :(

Awhile back I needed an interpreter for a minor eye operation and my interpreter was aware of both types of signs and asked me which I preferred. That made me happy!
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As a terp who deals with people who use signs from all over the English/ASL, geographical, chronologic, and socio-economic spectrum, I've learned that I have to be flexible with sign choices. I try to follow the lead of my clients in their sign choices.
 
... speak of the Devil. I just sent off a PM.

Anyway, I have noticed there are big differences between the older and younger generations, especially in the classifiers and technological signs.
 
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