Christians Sue for Right Not to Tolerate Gay Policies

[Reba]

You are judging us. Jesus said that sin should be between the person and God!

Unless it effects another person.

For some examples:

The sin of theft hurts the victim.

The sin of rape hurts the victim.

The sin of murder hurts the victim and the survivors.

The sin of gossip hurts the victim.

The sin of lying hurts the victim.

The sin of adultery hurts the family.

Individuals and society have the right and responsibility to judge these sins.

 

[Teresh]

50 percent of the 10 commandments are current laws on the books..some state level, some federal, and some both. Should these laws be stricken from the books because they are religious or moral in nature?

I can't think of any religion that disagrees with those five things, but to be fair, it's not as if coveting can really be illegal (or prosecuted, if it is).

By that line of thinking, because a church doesn't recognize same sex marriages does not mean that the states have to recognize them (or risk being in violation of seperation of church and state which is the argument here).

Some churches recognize same-sex marriages, others don't. If the state is going to confer any sort of benefits of marriage upon human couples for taxation, child-rearing, etc, it is only rational that all human couples be affored the same legal benefits. Now, if the state adopted a policy that churches would be required to recognize same-sex marriage, that would be in violation of the First Amendment, but no one is asking for that. All gay and lesbian couples want here is the same civil benefits coming from the government that straight couples have enjoyed since the government started offering such benefits.

Having same-sex marriages allowed on the civil level does not inhibit the ability of any religious individual to practice their religion, nor does it respect a particular institution. The issue that is under debate is that Fundamentalist Christians want gays and lesbians to be denied civil marriage on the basis of it being immoral by the terms of their religion--That is legislating religion, which is unconstitutional.

If you examine all of the details of the situation, opening up civil marriage to gay and lesbian couples is really the only logical solution anyone could come to. The other suggestions (banning it, "civil unions") all end up discriminating against a particular group in some way or another, which is a violation of the Constitution's equal protection clause (per interpretation of Brown vs Topeka Board of Education), and possibly a violation of the first amendment.

To take it one step further, what if I created a church that said I could do that.....wouldn't the goverment have a responsibility to come after me and charge me with a crime?

Yes According to Constitutional interpretations of the Judicial branch, one cannot start a religion with an intent of breaking the law and be protected under the first amendment.

Again, we are talking about laws based on morals...and if those in the goverment feel that homosexuality is wrong and/or immoral, then they will pass laws not recognizing those marriages. Like with any other laws, if you are not happy with what your politicians are voting for or against, you have the right (and IMO obligation) to support and elect those that have beliefs similar to yours.

I didn't question that. I simply have an issue with the hypocrisy of the people who are opposing it. They're not very nice people in general.

I vote for people who I want to run my government. The issue is that those that do run the government are often out of step with the rest of society, as we have seen with the FMA when less than 30% of Americans support it.

 

[Teresh]

Unless it effects another person.

Yeah? Homosexuality affects other people how?

 

[Taylor]

Teresh,
First, I want to say thanks for doing your research

Again, it falls back on those who are in office. The debate on same sex marriages reminds me a lot of the abortion debate. I honestly don't think it be resolved, and the gay/lesbian community has a heck of a hill to climb.

Something that came up in a recent discussion I was having about this topic was the sanctity of marriage..and the definition of marriage altogether.
It is said that homosexual relationships are not marriage. That is, they simply do not fit the minimum necessary condition for a marriage to exist--namely, the union of a man and a woman. It reminds me of Maryland state law regarding rape. In the state of Maryland, a man cannot be raped. In MD, the law specifically mentions the male body part and the female body part. A man who forces another man to have sex is a sexual assault and does not meet the definition of rape. I only mention that because most laws (both state and church) define marriage as a union between male and female...without those two, it is not a marriage...just as its not rape if it does not involve a penis and a vagina. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that definition, but that is how the law reads.

Marriage by itself was not a creation of any laws and as far as anyone can tell, marriage (union between man and woman) at one time was never regulated by any laws....it already existed before any regulation.

Additionally, a same sex relationship would have to be defined. It sounds easy, but its not. What would constitute a same sex marriage? Would a couple have to be romantically involved for it to be a union? If not, wouldn't two male roomates, with no other relationship, meet the definition of a same sex union? In order for there to be any laws, things like that would have to be taken into consideration. Under MD state law, if two roomates get into a fight, it is still a 'domestic dispute' and if there is an assault, I am required to take somebody to jail (same as if they were married). Domestic in Maryland means anyone who lives under the same roof..whether family members, roomates, or husband/wife, girlfriend/boyfriend. The same type of definitions would need to be considered for a same sex union. For years, people have been fighting over the definition of marriage....how many years will pass to define 'union'.

Something else to take into consideration is how private companies handle it. For example, lets take a husband and wife who own a second house and want to rent it out. Can you tell a deeply religious person that they must rent to a gay couple? If they don't rent, the gay couple would be discriminated against...so the option is to force somebody to rent to something that the landlords find morally wrong and detestable. So now, isn't that same landlord the one who is being descriminated against because they would be persecuted (and prosecuted under law) for not allowing a gay couple into their house? This too would have to be legislated, right? But how can the government legislate it if everyone feels that the government has no right to regulate same sex marriages (as many in the gay/lesbian community feel).

That is a single example that has no solution and is complicated. So how would you handle health insurance companies that say they will offer benefits to those in same sex unions? That too would have to be hammered out and legislated. Then suppose they are forced to offer benefits to those couples...would the rates be the same for what some consider a risky lifestyle (much like motorcycle helmet laws....those states that don't have them pay higher premiums because riding without a helmet is considered risky and more prone to injury).

Some feel that that allowing same sex marriage is a very simple change to the law. There is a lot to consider, however, because there are so many things that a simple change to the law can affect. I think that many (including myself) don't have an issue with same sex unions, but worry about the can of worms that would be opened by allowing it.

 

[Teresh]

Marriage by itself was not a creation of any laws and as far as anyone can tell, marriage (union between man and woman) at one time was never regulated by any laws....it already existed before any regulation.

Not questioning that. Why the government decided to get into the marriage business is beyond me.

Additionally, a same sex relationship would have to be defined. It sounds easy, but its not. What would constitute a same sex marriage?

Well, what defines an opposite-sex marriage? If we're going strictly for civil marriage, an opposite-sex marriage would be any two people of opposite genders who receive certain benefits and a marriage license from the government.

Yes, there is abuse of the system somewhat (people marrying people they aren't dating/in love with, people marrying people to stay in the country), but the fact of the matter is, while opening up civil marriage to same-sex couples would mean a larger volume of abuse, it would still only be proportional to the number of people getting married.

Can you tell a deeply religious person that they must rent to a gay couple?

This is a different issue. But would you tell a deeply religious white-supremacist that they must rent to a black man? If you say yes, then logically also, you should be able to tell them that they must rent to a gay man or a lesbian. If you say no, that will be your answer.

 

[EagleCherokee63]

Thanks, Eagle. Just let the Light shine and His love flows to touch the lives of the people. BIG SMILE

Welcome!

 

[EagleCherokee63]

Yes. There is *nothing* in Genesis about homosexuality.

EagleCherokee63,

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Gen 19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them


1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully;


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

[EagleCherokee63]

Teresh say:

Ah, but God said that he would never flood the world again.[/QUOTE]

EagleCherokee63 say:

Right, Bible said here,

Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which [is] between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

 

[EagleCherokee63]

Originally Posted by Taylor
50 percent of the 10 commandments are current laws on the books..some state level, some federal, and some both. Should these laws be stricken from the books because they are religious or moral in nature?



I can't think of any religion that disagrees with those five things, but to be fair, it's not as if coveting can really be illegal (or prosecuted, if it is).


yes, God's Law 10 commandments because People are rebuke against Lord. They created everyone humans. It very important obey Lord!

Bible said here;

Exd 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exd 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
Exd 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exd 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exd 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exd 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exd 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exd 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exd 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exd 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exd 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exd 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. Exd 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw [it], they removed, and stood afar off.
Exd 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
Exd 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
Exd 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God [was].
Exd 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
Exd 20:23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
Exd 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
Exd 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
Exd 20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

 

[EagleCherokee63]

Example: here read below,
Andy Rooney,
DID YOU KNOW?
As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

DID YOU KNOW?
As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall,
right above where the Supreme Court judges sit,
a display of the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.

DID YOU KNOW?
James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:

"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

DID YOU KNOW?
Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

DID YOU KNOW?
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

DID YOU KNOW?
Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

DID YOU KNOW?
Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law an oligarchy
the rule of few over many.

DID YOU KNOW?
The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said:
"Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."
How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

Let's put it around the world and let the world see and remember what this great country was built on.

Chamber, US House of Representatives

 

[Taylor]

This is a different issue. But would you tell a deeply religious white-supremacist that they must rent to a black man? If you say yes, then logically also, you should be able to tell them that they must rent to a gay man or a lesbian. If you say no, that will be your answer.

Excellent point, however, I think this is where science plays a role. Right now, it is commonly accepted in the scientific community that we are scientifically different when it comes things such as race, gender, etc. We are created this way and had no choice in the matter on what race we are or what sex we are. So, it would be common sense (and legal sense) that discrimination based on race, sex, national origin, etc should be illegal.

Many in the gay/lesbian community make the claim that they were born that way and compare it to race, gender, etc. (and I cannot agree or disagree with this statement....I am not gay therefore cannot describe those feelings). With that said, the scientific community or the world as a whole cannot agree if gays/lesbians are born that way or become that way later on (making it a choice).

I think once the scientific and world community can prove, without a doubt, and convince the rest of the world that gays/lesbians are born that way, then that is what it will take to open the door to same sex marriages.

So, until it can be proven that your sexuality was just as much of your choice as your race is, same sex marriages will not be approved and racial bias will be illegal.

 

[Teresh]

EagleCherokee63,

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Gen 19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.

None of those passages mention homosexuality at all. Yes, they say God destroyed the city. Where does it say homosexuality was the reason?

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them


1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully;

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

None of these citations are from the Tanakh (let alone the Torah). Since I don't consider your new testament to be valid canon, you're going to need find something within my accepted canon in order to say that homosexuality was the reason for the destruction of Sodom and Gemorrah. Additionally, if you do find something like that, it won't be in the Torah, so my original statement holds true.

Bible said here;

Exd 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exd 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
Exd 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exd 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exd 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exd 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exd 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exd 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exd 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exd 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exd 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exd 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. Exd 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw [it], they removed, and stood afar off.
Exd 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
Exd 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
Exd 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God [was].
Exd 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
Exd 20:23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
Exd 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
Exd 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
Exd 20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

God gave a total of 613 mitzvot in the Torah. Should we enshrine in law that people cannot eat animals with cloven hooves? That people cannot eat shellfish? No, I don't think so.

Many in the gay/lesbian community make the claim that they were born that way and compare it to race, gender, etc. (and I cannot agree or disagree with this statement....I am not gay therefore cannot describe those feelings). With that said, the scientific community or the world as a whole cannot agree if gays/lesbians are born that way or become that way later on (making it a choice).

I cite the fact that the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association all agree--There is a biological reason for homosexuality.

 

[Reba]

Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. 26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; ) 28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.


God not only commands men not to have sexual relations with each other, He also states that those sexual sins defile not just the individuals, but also entire nations. The very land is "defiled" (contaminated).

God also points out that those "abominations" were previously done by men, and their actions resulted in the defiling of the land. Such as, the homosexual sins of the men in Sodom destroyed their city, and left the land contaminated. God refers in the past tense to that event ("...as it spued out the nations that were before you").


Leviticus 20
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Again, God lists the homosexual act as a serious sin.

 

[Reba]

The truth is, it doesn't matter how many times God condemns sins in the Bible. If someone refuses to believe what God says, then it doesn't matter. People, since Adam and Eve, prefer to blame other people, their genes, society, bad translations, politics, etc. No one wants to face responsibility. That's human nature. Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the Serpent, and the Serpent misquoted Scripture. It's the same old game.

God set the standard for marriage with Adam and Eve. God was very clear about the marriage relationship. Marriage also represents the type for the relationship between Jesus (Bridegroom) and His church (Bride). Going against that type is a very serious sin.

 

[Reba]

... But would you tell a deeply religious white-supremacist that they must rent to a black man? If you say yes, then logically also, you should be able to tell them that they must rent to a gay man or a lesbian. If you say no, that will be your answer.

Taylor wrote, "gay couple", not gay individual. That could also apply to an unmarried hetero couple. Some landlords don't want to support a couple's living in sin. That's not the same as skin color.

Honestly, do landlords even ask someone their sexual preference when they apply for a rental?

 

[deafdyke]

an opposite-sex marriage would be any two people of opposite genders

How would that work if the people in the relationship are genderqueer?
Reba, how come Christians aren't against commonlaw marriage, or even the marriage of Miss Piggy to Kermit the Frog (in Muppets Take Manhatten)?

 

[deafdyke]

Oh and Levictucus only applies to MALE couples. Also what about the prohibition of eating shrimp, lobster etc? What about not wearing clothes made with mixed fabics? Why does the prohibition of homosexuality still apply when the other laws don't?

 

[jazzy]

Problems with many people, they don't like homosexuals and try to stop them and try to change them. And they use religion to destroy them. That is sin to me.

Homosexual are created by God just alike God created us to be deaf.

 

[deafdyke]

Actually Eagle Cherokee, God didn't destroy Sodom and Gomorrah b/c of homosexuality!
Isaiah 3:9
The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves
Jer 23:14

14I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
Yes, you say, but you already KNEW that Sodom was evil......here's the clincher: Ezekiel 1649 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
(notice no mention of the sin of homosexuality!!!!!!!!!)

 

[Reba]

Isaiah 3:9
The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves

The context of this verse was the prophet Isaiah proclaiming to the people of Israel the reasons for God's judgment on them. Their leadership had become weak and corrupt.

This verse shows that the people were not ashamed of their sins. Sin was so widespread and deep that the people no longer felt shame for their sins. They were proud to sin publicly, the same as Sodom did.

Jer 23:14
14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Again, God uses the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples of the worst sin communities. He compares the sins of the false prophets as being wicked to a degree, and widespread thru the communty, like it was in those cities.

Ezekiel 1649
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

First, you need to use the entire context for meaning.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

You left out an important part of the text.

Yes, Sodom was guilty of pride, material wealth, and too much free time on their hands. These things led further to sins of lack of charity, and haughtiness, and to commit abomination. Pride, materialism, and idle time began the progression (or degression) into the sin of widespread homosexuality in their cities. That sin pattern, combined with the weak leadership (as mentioned in your Isaiah reference), and lack of righteous prophets (as mentioned in your Jeremiah reference), made the environment of Sodom and Gomorrah ripe for shameless public abomination.

(notice no mention of the sin of homosexuality!!!!!!!!!)

The Ezekiel verse mentions the "abomination" that the people committed. They didn't have the English word "homosexual" back then. Also, the readers of the books of the prophets were quite familiar with the sins and judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, and understood the reference.

"Homosexuality" doesn't need to be in the same sentence every time the word "Sodom" is used in order to prove that God hated that sin.