At what age do you think people should be permitted to have a driver's license?

[Liebling:-)))]

Hubby, daughter, and I paid for our car expenses thru our jobs. We didn't get allowances.

Sorry to confuse you with "money allowance" which I mean is month pocket money until the kids get jobs or training course.

http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=8481&highlight=pocket+money

How do teenage children get "unemployment benefit"?

After finish 3 year training course, they will get money from unemployment benefit if there're no job available for them. The officer from unemployment center get jobs for teenagers after finish 3 years training course... sometimes the employers want to keep them after finish 3 years training course.

We can't use bikes here because everything is too far away.

No matter how far or too far but they can do that... I did rode the bicycle for 10 miles... To me, I would not do that everyday... Yes, I rode bicycle EVERYDAY during holiday and EVERY WEEKENDS for 5 to 6 miles to town to get small things.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Thank you for share your interesting posts here...

 

[Mookie]

Oh pleaz, Liebling,

You may not have enough time for your personal leisure when you are being a chauffeur for your kids. I bet your hubby in bed is gonna to be and

How are you going to have your personal time to drive your kids to the university more than 50 miles between your home and the university when Danny will be 18 years old? I used to drive to Kansas State University from home about 50 miles (one way) almost daily for one semester. Can you manage?

After high school graduation, I got a job to the small town about 35 miles where they manufacture RV and small shuttles. There was a no public transportation between the points because of rural zone. Can your kids ride their bicycles daily to work daily?

You have to trust your kids and let them drive in your cars. Tell me how did you get your driving license and how old did you finally drive yourself?

 

[Heath]

It's important to teach children to respect... If not, then it's bad. My children grew up knowing what respect is and know my rules and limit for go out shopping... I told them that I do not go shopping everyday due gasoline expense but Saturdays...their safety is MAINLY important, no matter what.

You are setting a good example. Buy gas once a week and drive the car wisely so your kids will see the good example you have set forth. This will protect your kid's finanical upbringings to become wise and frugal with their money & put some savings aside as a good and prime example.

 

[VamPyroX]

Let's look at the numbers...

• Car crashes are the leading cause of death for American teens — more than drugs, guns, or any disease.
  Of course, the majority of people who are involved with drugs, guns, or any other disease are adults. That's a bad way of measuring.
• A teenager’s first 500 miles of driving are the most dangerous. During that time, they’re 10 times more likely to crash than an adult.
  I think it should start with "Everyone's first 500 miles of driving..."
• In 2003 alone, teens were involved in an estimated million and a half accidents.
  What about the adults?
• Two-thirds of the teenagers who died in car accidents last year were not buckled up.
  The same goes for adults.
• During the most recent five year period for which records are available, nearly 35,000 people died when a teenager was driving.
  And more died when a drunk driver was driving as well as a person on drugs.
• Teen drivers killed in motor vehicle collisions had a youth passenger in the automobile 45 percent of the time.
  Drunk drivers are more likely to survive a car accident than a sober person.
• For every 10 "close calls" in a car, there’s one crash.
  And... how is this related to teens?
• 16-year-olds crash at a rate that’s nearly one and a half times as high as 17-year-olds.
  I think it should be rephrased as "First-year drivers crash at a rate that's nearly one and a half times as high as second-year drivers."
• 15 to 20-year-olds make up 7 percent of licensed drivers, but suffer 14 percent of fatalities and 20 percent of all reported collisions.
  15 to 20 years of age is 5 years. An average person lives to be about 70 years old. Do the math... 15 to 20 = 7% and 21 to 70 = 93%. Which is worse? 21 to 70 is worse than 15 to 20. Why? If we were to divide 15 to 20 into separate percentages, we would have 1.2% per age group. If we were to divide 21 to 70 into separate percentages, we would have 1.9% per age group. Therefore, anyone older than age 20 is at higher risk than anyone under 20.
• 53 percent of teen driver deaths occur on weekends.
  Wouldn't that be the same for everyone?
• On the basis of current population trends, there will be 23 percent more 16 to 20-year-old drivers on the road in 2010 than there are today — 26.1 million.
  23% is pretty much standard for our increasing population everywhere, not just drivers.

 

[Reba]

Sorry to confuse you with "money allowance" which I mean is month pocket money until the kids get jobs or training course.

I'm not confused; I know what allowance means.
When Hubby, my daughter, and I were teens, we didn't get allowances; we worked for our money.

We got very small allowances when we were little children. We didn't get enough money to save for cars when we were kids.

We took "bag" lunches to school, so we didn't get lunch money.

No matter how far or too far but they can do that... I did rode the bicycle for 10 miles...

I mean 20-30 miles one way. In the winter time, that would include riding in the dark. Some people commute 50 miles a day. Would you ride a bike for that every day? Would you let your kids ride their bikes 20 miles in the dark?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Excellence information, Vampy.

I wish MADD should open their mind to see the fact that an alcohol is not the blame how the teens driving accidents but their own immaturily. They should see themselves that it's not alchohol because the drinking legal age was increased in 1987 which it's long time ago... but still accidents... there're no difference.

I remember ADers mentioned about improve public transportation system in America in other threads... (Unfortunlately I can't remember which exact thread few ADers mentioned during debate last 2005). I googled and found the exact same link where ADers suggest in other threads of 2005.

Should local governments spend more money to improve public transportation?

http://student-voices.org/discussions/discussion.php?DiscussionID=396

Those link remind me of few years ago, I also remember from see the New TV that Americans refused to increase the tax to support to improve public transportation. Those link saying that they want to improve public transportation instead of spend a lot of money on car gas......

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Oh pleaz, Liebling,

You may not have enough time for your personal leisure when you are being a chauffeur for your kids. I bet your hubby in bed is gonna to be and

To Europeans view, it's selfish of parents to complaint or label as "chauffeur their kids".

Our children are our responsible until they are 18 years old. The responsible parent should be happy to offer to drive their children to. What's the parents for. It's normal to make sacrifice for their children's safety than let to risk their life.

The teenagers have to be killed by car accident BECAUSE the parents complaint for "chauffeur" their kids to". :roll: .


Check this link

November 28, 2004: Sweet 16: But Not For Driving

Two weeks ago, after a 16-year-old student at Churchill High School in Montgomery County, Md., was killed while driving from a party where alcohol was being served, parents met to discuss how to stop teen drinking and driving.

As well intentioned as such forums may be, they dodge the plain fact that the surest way to reduce the number of teen traffic deaths — nearly 8,000 last year — is to reduce the number of teens on the road. The best place to start is with 16-year-olds.

In the U.S., 16-year-olds have a crash rate five times greater than that of 18-year-olds. Although the driving experience of 16- and 18- year-olds has to be taken into account, immaturity plays an even bigger role, especially among boys. The immaturity factor is so strong that, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, driver-education courses have had little or no effect on teen accidents.

Yet, in most states, teens are allowed to get a permit at 15 and a license at 16. If the permit age were pushed up to 16, and if kids were required to hold the permit for a year before getting a license, there would be a substantial reduction in the deaths of teen drivers and their passengers. In England, the driving age is 17, and in Germany, it is 18. Both countries have lower teen fatality rates than the United States. [DSA note: This is despite these countries having factors which should make matters worse, such as higher speed limits and many small cars, etc., so this article is clearly making an accurate and highly important point.]

Raising the driving age to 17 would disappoint 16-year-olds who have come to see getting a license as a rite of passage. It would foment an uproar among the growing numbers who have bamboozled their parents into thinking that they are entitled to a new car on their 16th birthday. And many parents would not be too happy to have to wait a year to stop driving their teens around or to delegate the chauffeuring of younger kids to teen drivers.

But any responsible parent would gladly make that sacrifice to avoid the grief that I witnessed last month, when one of my students was killed as she rode with a 16-year-old driver whom police have charged with reckless driving.

Laura Lynam, the best student in my senior English classes at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Va., became the 15th teenager in the Washington metropolitan area to be killed in a car accident in a three-week period....

...when it comes to cars — the biggest source of

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info section/news/news archives/2004-11.htm

How are you going to have your personal time to drive your kids to the university more than 50 miles between your home and the university when Danny will be 18 years old? I used to drive to Kansas State University from home about 50 miles (one way) almost daily for one semester. Can you manage?

As far as I see myself that EU government concern their countries to improve is public transportation system than America. I'm sure that you know that. As what I see myself how difference between British and Germany. British and France transportation system are better than Germany but Germans government take care of improve transportation system for years... of course every year... Why can't US government do the same then? It's about protect people's safety.

Here is my answer, if my children are at college, university or whatever more than 50 miles then they take train... I would be happy to offer to drive them to train station before on my way to work or if my work time is not possible to drive them to train station then they can take the bus to train station then they take train themselves to there... or stay at student homes there... If they want to travel to there and back to home everyday then they have to take bus to home after college themselves.

EU and US system are different, that's why we have no problem since we have public transportation system here to take my children to anywhere. We often take train to make our outing trip to leave our car because of gasonline expense. That's how the children grew up knowing and respect about expenses...

After high school graduation, I got a job to the small town about 35 miles where they manufacture RV and small shuttles. There was a no public transportation between the points because of rural zone.

Like what I say before, US government should improve public transportation in their country.

Can your kids ride their bicycles daily to work daily?

Yes, there're VERY common of Germans ride their bicycles to work daily during good weather. If bad weather then take the bus or drive car. Before I start family, I use to ride the bicycle to work daily (5 miles) and took the bus during bad weather until US Army caserne where I work had to move to other area which around 12 miles I check bus connection but it's bad so I made driving liescne. I really do not need driving leicsne until 1992. The city in London where I grew up, not need driving liecnse because of good public transportation system. Yes, I can ride my bicycle for 12 miles daily to my work place but I can't because I must arrive home from work by 4.20 pm before my hubby must leave at 4.45 pm for work. (It would take me over 1 hour to arrive home)... Who watch children? I has to wait patience until my children are old enough then....

u have to trust your kids and let them drive in your cars.

Legal driving age 18 accord German law. I has to raise car and tax insurance if I offer my children to take my car... which it's mean is 3 times high insurance for teenagers until 25 years old than normal insurance from 25 years old only if there're no accidents. No Way. If police found out that I offer my children to car without notify "teens" insurance then I will pay 2,000 EUR penatly fine. No Way... My children will get second handed car from us when they success to get driving liecsne. We support teens car insurance and tax for them at ONCE then they should manage themselves rest of their life............ Legal 18 years old mean is their own responsible, not our responsible...

Tell me how did you get your driving license and how old did you finally drive yourself?

I got my first driving license at age 29... I wasn't pay the attention for want drive since I know there're public transportation... then married and move to Germany... I has to learn drive because of bad bus connection to work place where they move to other area... It's impossible for my hubby to drive me there daily because his work is different direction as mine... If there're good direction/connection then he would drive me there before on his way to work

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I'm not confused; I know what allowance means.
When Hubby, my daughter, and I were teens, we didn't get allowances; we worked for our money.

We got very small allowances when we were little children. We didn't get enough money to save for cars when we were kids.

Oh I see.. Okay. Yes, it's same with British, too... I was grow up to have no money allowances to learn how to budget... until I learn from other Europe countries and began to agree with them to let the kids to have money allowance at earlier age to learn... If they want more than limit allowances then they have to work for us...

We took "bag" lunches to school, so we didn't get lunch money.

Yes, it's same with us here... we didn't get lunch money, too... we use tupperware to pack lunches for our children accord school. Paper or plastic for lunch packet is not accept due environement.

I mean 20-30 miles one way. In the winter time, that would include riding in the dark. Some people commute 50 miles a day. Would you ride a bike for that every day? Would you let your kids ride their bikes 20 miles in the dark?

See above where I answered mlds's question. A lot of Germans ride their bikes in the dark since we have bicycle lanes here in Germany which it's safe. I would not allow my children to ride their bikes during bad weather but bus... My children grew up to respect bicycle safety... they have bicycle training "liecsne" from police at school.

 

[Reba]

As far as I see myself that EU government concern their countries to improve is public transportation system than America. I'm sure that you know that. As what I see myself how difference between British and Germany. British and France transportation system are better than Germany but Germans government take care of improve transportation system for years... of course every year... Why can't US government do the same then? It's about protect people's safety.

The US is a much larger country, and places are spread far apart. That is part of the problem.

Also, many Americans prefer the freedom of hopping in their cars when they want to go somewhere; they don't want to be restricted by bus and train schedules.

Also, many Americans don't want to increase their taxes to pay for public transportation.

For some people (including my family), even if there was public transportation available, it wouldn't solve our job-related transportation needs.

... Yes, I can ride my bicycle for 12 miles daily to my work place but I can't because I must arrive home from work by 4.20 pm before my hubby must leave at 4.45 pm for work. (It would take me over 1 hour to arrive home)...

Exactly. I can't ride a bike 20 miles to work each day; it takes too much time, and I would arrive at work sweaty. In the summertime, it is always in the 90's degrees, with high humidity. I would be in awful condition if a I rode a bike to work!

I am curious about that. If you ride your bike to work, do you take a shower when you get there?

 

[Mookie]

Howdy Liebling,

You surely are stubbornly attempting to win some points on this debatable issues. First of all, please do not surf any driving and drinking articles in U.S.A. Please provide your AD readers about driving and drinking articles in Great Britain and/or Germany. We the North Americans are not much aware of your Europeon views espeically Germany in Kids' drinking and driving. All we know about Prince Harry's troubles.

As Reba said, we do not have much time to ride our bikes to work becasue of long trip and weathers. I reside in Washington Metro that does provide the public transportation. However, as I born and rised, in Kansas there are not much public transportation for the low-paid employees for the long distance between points. When I worked for RV/Shuttle company in small town in late 1980s, I have seen many poor farmers working there for additational paychecks. They still also work at their own farms extra hours. That's why they had to drive their trucks to work since they do not have much time to wait for the public transportation. Moreover, they also do not want to pay more tax on the public transportation for small towns in Kansas except big cities.

I am sure that European governments wants to support the public transportation so that they want to reduce the unemployment rates. If I want to travel to Europe or German, I will be happly to use the public transportation....

If you want to visit small towns for vacation or short trip in North America, rental car expense is more cheaper than using the public/privatetransportation.....

Is there a German law let 16 years old driver to drive with adult for practicing? What about parents that they can not drive due to their disablities? Does the German goverment permits 16 years old child to transport their parent(s) for special permit? Of course, some state governments in U.S. permits to let the 14 years old kid with special permit drive for the parent who can not drive. Some kids drive their parent who has color blind and can not drive at nights.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Howdy Liebling,

You surely are stubbornly attempting to win some points on this debatable issues.

I only answer your questions in your previous posts... I only speak out of my mind and feeling..

First of all, please do not surf any driving and drinking articles in U.S.A. Please provide your AD readers about driving and drinking articles in Great Britain and/or Germany. We the North Americans are not much aware of your Europeon views espeically Germany in Kids' drinking and driving. All we know about Prince Harry's troubles.

Yes, I have... Yes, we talked about Europe in our previous posts in my thread here until my last response post to Vampy.

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=443853&postcount=68

Yet, in most states, teens are allowed to get a permit at 15 and a license at 16. If the permit age were pushed up to 16, and if kids were required to hold the permit for a year before getting a license, there would be a substantial reduction in the deaths of teen drivers and their passengers. In England, the driving age is 17, and in Germany, it is 18. Both countries have lower teen fatality rates than the United States. [DSA note: This is despite these countries having factors which should make matters worse, such as higher speed limits and many small cars, etc., so this article is clearly making an accurate and highly important point.]

Raising the driving age to 17 would disappoint 16-year-olds who have come to see getting a license as a rite of passage. It would foment an uproar among the growing numbers who have bamboozled their parents into thinking that they are entitled to a new car on their 16th birthday. And many parents would not be too happy to have to wait a year to stop driving their teens around or to delegate the chauffeuring of younger kids to teen drivers.

But any responsible parent would gladly make that sacrifice to avoid the grief that I witnessed last month, when one of my students was killed as she rode with a 16-year-old driver whom police have charged with reckless driving.

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info section/news/news archives/2004-11.htm

As Reba said, we do not have much time to ride our bikes to work becasue of long trip and weathers. I reside in Washington Metro that does provide the public transportation. However, as I born and rised, in Kansas there are not much public transportation for the low-paid employees for the long distance between points. When I worked for RV/Shuttle company in small town in late 1980s, I have seen many poor farmers working there for additational paychecks. They still also work at their own farms extra hours. That's why they had to drive their trucks to work since they do not have much time to wait for the public transportation. Moreover, they also do not want to pay more tax on the public transportation for small towns in Kansas except big cities.

Oookayyy - What's about public bus? example about children school bus if the children lives in outside of city (farm/countryside).. What about that?

I am sure that European governments wants to support the public transportation so that they want to reduce the unemployment rates. If I want to travel to Europe or German, I will be happly to use the public transportation....

It has nothing do with unemployment rates reduction because public transportation was started long long time ago before unemployment rates go up.

If you want to visit small towns for vacation or short trip in North America, rental car expense is more cheaper than using the public/privatetransportation.....

Yes, I heard that it's cheaper to rent car in America than Europe.

Is there a German law let 16 years old driver to drive with adult for practicing? What about parents that they can not drive due to their disablities? Does the German goverment permits 16 years old child to transport their parent(s) for special permit? Of course, some state governments in U.S. permits to let the 14 years old kid with special permit drive for the parent who can not drive. Some kids drive their parent who has color blind and can not drive at nights.

Unfortunlately no, it's illegal for the parents to teach their children how to drive in Germany. It's strict forbidden. If the teenagers want to learn to drive then they have to wait until they are 18 years old then go to driving school as what I mentioned in my first thread and few posts after that to answer members's questions over Germany in one page thread.

Check my post about Germany law... and also world law, too.

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=438808&postcount=1
http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=438833&postcount=9
http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=438842&postcount=11

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=443823&postcount=67

 

[Heath]

If you want to visit small towns for vacation or short trip in North America, rental car expense is more cheaper than using the public/privatetransportation.....

Rental cars are very expensive !!!!! It adds up quickly. My God !!!! Here is the right advice.

You are better off going to the big city then for the day go to the end of the city transportation system, in a safe area of course then take the local bus , sometimes it will be a Greyhound bus to the smaller towns if you want to see the area and it is better to have a pen pal that you wrote to be able to show you around by driving their own car to show you the small towns of America which can be a neat and awesome thing. I know some many complain of the small towns having lack of transportation , limited jobs etc but .... the peace and quiet is awesome. You get to see the mountains and photograph the wildlife.

 

[Mookie]

Rental cars are very expensive !!!!! It adds up quickly. My God !!!! Here is the right advice.

You are better off going to the big city then for the day go to the end of the city transportation system, in a safe area of course then take the local bus , sometimes it will be a Greyhound bus to the smaller towns if you want to see the area and it is better to have a pen pal that you wrote to be able to show you around by driving their own car to show you the small towns of America which can be a neat and awesome thing. I know some many complain of the small towns having lack of transportation , limited jobs etc but .... the peace and quiet is awesome. You get to see the mountains and photograph the wildlife.

Heath, it is for Liebling. How is she gonna to pay for her husband and her kids when they visit to our American soil? Rental car is a better resource. They like go to shopping. Are they supposed to carry the American items many hours even many days that you told her not to use the rental car?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

The US is a much larger country, and places are spread far apart. That is part of the problem.

Also, many Americans prefer the freedom of hopping in their cars when they want to go somewhere; they don't want to be restricted by bus and train schedules.

Also, many Americans don't want to increase their taxes to pay for public transportation.

For some people (including my family), even if there was public transportation available, it wouldn't solve our job-related transportation needs.

Alot Americans are for public transportation since gasoline expense...

Should local governments spend more money to improve public transportation?
http://student-voices.org/discussions/discussion.php?DiscussionID=396

Exactly. I can't ride a bike 20 miles to work each day; it takes too much time, and I would arrive at work sweaty. In the summertime, it is always in the 90's degrees, with high humidity. I would be in awful condition if a I rode a bike to work!

I am curious about that. If you ride your bike to work, do you take a shower when you get there?

Well, there're no hot summer at 6.00 am but cool and fresh air weather or no hill but down to town thru forest... when I rode with bike to work for 5 miles. That's why I don't have sweat... but... it's too hot when I left work for go back home by 4.00 pm during hot summer... I go to shower straight to cool me down after arrive home...

As far as I know from a lot of Germans take shower after travel with bicycle for 12 miles to work place where we moved to in 1992 because there're hill and down road which it got them more exercise. They have to arrive work place 15 minutes earlier to have quick shower before work time start. I don't ride my bicycle for 12 miles to work place because of children and my hubby's work time... I will one day when my children are old enough to look after themselves.

 

[Heath]

Heath, it is for Liebling. How is she gonna to pay for her husband and her kids when they visit to our American soil? Rental car is a better resource. They like go to shopping. Are they supposed to carry the American items many hours even many days that you told her not to use the rental car?

I am sure there are family programs for German families to visit American families. I am sure the American families have a car to spare.

 

[Mookie]

I am sure there are family programs for German families to visit American families. I am sure the American families have a car to spare.

for whole 50 states?

 

[Heath]

for whole 50 states?

Yes I am sure Liebling can talk to the tourist office and see about a family sponsored program. They have them in all 50 states too. The tour operator office services can find a program. I am sure.

 

[Mookie]

Yes I am sure Liebling can talk to the tourist office and see about a family sponsored program. They have them in all 50 states too.

I do not think they would be interested in family sponsored program. Are they fluent in ASL or German sign language for whole 50 states? Prove me...

Liebling would have to make decision, and they like to visit AD people instead of talking to strangers in German Family program...

 

[Heath]

I do not think they would be interested in family sponsored program. Are they fluent in ASL or German sign language for whole 50 states? Prove me...

Liebling would have to make decision, and they like to visit AD people instead of talking to strangers in German Family program...

Use your common sense , no there is probably not a sign language exchange program, much less one for the families.

Liebling can make her own decisions and keeping her family's safety in mind. I am sure she would like to meet some of the AllDeaf readers in real life.