Abortion is NOT a sin

[Cheri]

do not call any individual "Jezebel" but your own description actually fits many woman in today's world. Sadly, many woman do murder their babies, prostitute themselves with men, and are enemies (against) God.

So is that what you think we were doing? Being a prostitute? We don't get paid to have sex, we make love to someone we love that a big differences. And how are we are enemies against God? Every One of us have sin and we never changed our ways to be a perfect person Only Jesus was alone a perfect human being. You know what Reba? You sound like you never did anything horrible in your lifetime? But you go on here and make us feel like crap. Is that a really a true Christen being? It isn't. I am sorry.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Exactly Cheri,

Jezebel is a different from any women here who had been through out with abortion condition and also living together etc.

Y used that name "Jezebel" to add in her post because she saw that name in the Bible. Jezebel is an evil and wicked woman of the Bible. Jezebel killed people for no reason and want to have everything etc etc etc and worship false gods, etc etc. It's what Y said is a disgusting. Jezebel has nothing do with women and abortion condition here.

Please dont listen Y and Crazymann00w's post.

 

[Reba]

So is that what you think we were doing? Being a prostitute? We don't get paid to have sex, we make love to someone we love that a big differences. And how are we are enemies against God? Every One of us have sin and we never changed our ways to be a perfect person Only Jesus was alone a perfect human being. You know what Reba? You sound like you never did anything horrible in your lifetime? But you go on here and make us feel like crap. Is that a really a true Christen being? It isn't. I am sorry.

I specifically said that I am NOT putting that label on anyone. I don't know why you want to apply to yourself. I never said it applied to you.

For the tenth time I will say, I was and am a sinner. Again I say, I never, never said I was perfect. I am a sinner. I ask God to forgive me, and help me change my sin ways. I love the Lord, and I don't want to continue in sin. If I continue in sin, I will hurt the Lord. If I continue in sin, that is against God.

I can't make anyone feel like crap. If someone did nothing wrong, then there is nothing to feel guilt about. If someone did something wrong, then guilt conviction can lead to repentence and forgiveness. I don't know what is in a person's heart, and I put no labels on any individual.

I was just saying that the name "Jezebel", as defined, could fit many women in today's world.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I honestly don't know why we're even debating this topic. Roe V Wade made abortion legal in this country, and each woman now has the right to decide for herself what happens to her body. Nobody has the right to tell her what she should or shoudln't do. Period!

This is a fact that we can't debate.

Let's all just accept this and move on. This is pointless.

:roll:

To all of you who's had abortion...



To Cheri:

You deserve an extra because, the choice wasn't yours. I am truly sorry you had to endure that.

 

[Cheri]

I specifically said that I am NOT putting that label on anyone. I don't know why you want to apply to yourself. I never said it applied to you.

For the tenth time I will say, I was and am a sinner. Again I say, I never, never said I was perfect. I am a sinner. I ask God to forgive me, and help me change my sin ways. I love the Lord, and I don't want to continue in sin. If I continue in sin, I will hurt the Lord. If I continue in sin, that is against God.

I can't make anyone feel like crap. If someone did nothing wrong, then there is nothing to feel guilt about. If someone did something wrong, then guilt conviction can lead to repentence and forgiveness. I don't know what is in a person's heart, and I put no labels on any individual.

I was just saying that the name "Jezebel", as defined, could fit many women in today's world.

It didn't sound like a defined to me, What I have seen came from you was saying that those people whoever you are talking about, are against God. It made it like you never done anything wrong in your lifetime that is why I said what I said. If you posted here and said All your sinned that you have done, I wouldn't once judged you, because I know I am not perfect myself either, But you sound like everyone done so horrible than you ever had, It is just the way I see it here from what you been posting. It is not about feeling guilt inside, It is about how you Christen preaches us and bring us down making us feeling horrible inside, like we did something far worst than any of you have because, of what we have seen in here as being preached by Chirstens. Christen thinks we have no feelings what we went through with abortion, Of course there are feelings of grieve, coping with our loss and healing, but some Christen like I see in here have not stopped rubbing that "murder" in our faces like we are really murders we aren't we are just human being just like everyone here, we made mistake in our lives and not needed to rub it in over and over. It is absolutely wrong to do. That is all I am saying here. If you were in my place you would understand how I feel but you don't.

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Reba said it all.

Y made very good point. That's all I can say.

You can hate me. You can be very angry at me. You can slap me or whatever. But I still love you anyway.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

It didn't sound like a defined to me, What I have seen came from you was saying that those people whoever you are talking about, are against God. It made it like you never done anything wrong in your lifetime that is why I said what I said. If you posted here and said All your sinned that you have done, I wouldn't once judged you, because I know I am not perfect myself either, But you sound like everyone done so horrible than you ever had, It is just the way I see it here from what you been posting. It is not about feeling guilt inside, It is about how you Christen preaches us and bring us down making us feeling horrible inside, like we did something far worst than any of you have because, of what we have seen in here as being preached by Chirstens. Christen thinks we have no feelings what we went through with abortion, Of course there are feelings of grieve, coping with our loss and healing, but some Christen like I see in here have not stopped rubbing that "murder" in our faces like we are really murders we aren't we are just human being just like everyone here, we made mistake in our lives and not needed to rub it in over and over. It is absolutely wrong to do. That is all I am saying here. If you were in my place you would understand how I feel but you don't.

I hate to say this, but Cheri's viewpoint is accurate. I'm not signalling out any one person here, but it does seem that most Christians have this type of atitude about people, and it is wrong. It's also why I'm gun shy about joining a church and getting involved in Christianity. I read by Bible and I pray, but I don't associate with anyone that is going to be judgmental. I want no part of that at all.

 

[Cheri]

Reba said it all.

Y made very good point. That's all I can say.

You can hate me. You can be very angry at me. You can slap me or whatever. But I still love you anyway.

How can you say Y made very good point? What she said was very harsh, rude and plain wrong upon God's way of preaching, You know that and I know that and everyone around us know that. Do you really believe God would approve that kind of attitude from any of you Christen believers I am absolutely positive God wouldn't allowing that kind of attitude from any of you. I am not going to say I hate you or I want to slap you because that isn't what God would want me to do. But I am leaving it in the hands of God to take care of that what you and Y have done. And How can you say " I still love you anyways" You don't even know what love means, You show no heart to care from the moment that we told our story. I feel like burst into tears It just so sad how you treated us.

 

[Vance]

It didn't sound like a defined to me, What I have seen came from you was saying that those people whoever you are talking about, are against God. It made it like you never done anything wrong in your lifetime that is why I said what I said. If you posted here and said All your sinned that you have done, I wouldn't once judged you, because I know I am not perfect myself either, But you sound like everyone done so horrible than you ever had, It is just the way I see it here from what you been posting. It is not about feeling guilt inside, It is about how you Christen preaches us and bring us down making us feeling horrible inside, like we did something far worst than any of you have because, of what we have seen in here as being preached by Chirstens. Christen thinks we have no feelings what we went through with abortion, Of course there are feelings of grieve, coping with our loss and healing, but some Christen like I see in here have not stopped rubbing that "murder" in our faces like we are really murders we aren't we are just human being just like everyone here, we made mistake in our lives and not needed to rub it in over and over. It is absolutely wrong to do. That is all I am saying here. If you were in my place you would understand how I feel but you don't.

You totally floored me with that comment. Well said!

Like Oceanbreeze, I am not going to signalling out anyone but I went thru many times with these christians (mostly conservatives, liberal christians extremely rare judge others but some percent of them do). It is getting tiresome because they are no better in other areas either so they have no way or rather, 'right' to preach me. I can label all of conservative christians, "murders" if I want to because they voted for Bush means that they are rallying for senseless deaths and murders in war which Jesus preached against. But I didn't because it is not my f**king place to judge you people. Get it yet bub? I sincerely hope so. Yes, yes, I do commit the sins but so? It is not your right to judge me so go away. I never say that I am innocent in these cases, I am guilty in some cases that I regretted that I did but I never do that again. That was between God and me. No one else.

Crazymanw00t, I don't think we do hate you.. on the contrary, it is highly possible that you people would hate us, not us at you people. I can use Ann Coulter as example, she promotes the violence and hatred, not us. That said all really. I didn't judge her, her actions did.

Again, well said, Cheri. I am glad that you stay strong no matter how and what... Never, never ever let them change your mind or destroy the real you. Never.

Back to topic, I found this veryyyyy good and thought-provoking article, I strongly suggest anyone to check this link out: http://anitraweb.org/activism/choices/whatibelieve.html -- published by progressive christian. Be sure to read the comments under "We Have Higher Ethics than the Bible" section. It is excellent.

 

[Liza]

Recently, I was truly horrified when I read the other thread that was locked by Alex because certain individuals made posts that reeked of blatant ignorance, and they hid behind religion to justify that ignorance. Normally, I do not bother reading such threads... but for some reason, I did a couple days ago. I had been thinking about it ever since....

No one deserves to be called a slut or whatever. AGHHH.
But... it doesnt help much when one rises to the bait.. one gotta rise above it, and not give those fools the satisfication. LOL

Good thread, Crusader Mag.

I'm pro choice, by the way. That means those have to take the responsibility of the consequences of choices they make, even if they were the wrong choices. They also could be the right choices.

 

[Cheri]

Thanks Oceanbreeze, Magatus and Liza

To Cheri:

You deserve an extra because, the choice wasn't yours. I am truly sorry you had to endure that.

Thank you sweetie, that means alot to me. Now you making me burst out tears. LOL!

 

[Gemtun]

It didn't sound like a defined to me, What I have seen came from you was saying that those people whoever you are talking about, are against God. It made it like you never done anything wrong in your lifetime that is why I said what I said. If you posted here and said All your sinned that you have done, I wouldn't once judged you, because I know I am not perfect myself either, But you sound like everyone done so horrible than you ever had, It is just the way I see it here from what you been posting. It is not about feeling guilt inside, It is about how you Christen preaches us and bring us down making us feeling horrible inside, like we did something far worst than any of you have because, of what we have seen in here as being preached by Chirstens. Christen thinks we have no feelings what we went through with abortion, Of course there are feelings of grieve, coping with our loss and healing, but some Christen like I see in here have not stopped rubbing that "murder" in our faces like we are really murders we aren't we are just human being just like everyone here, we made mistake in our lives and not needed to rub it in over and over. It is absolutely wrong to do. That is all I am saying here. If you were in my place you would understand how I feel but you don't.

Cheri, thank you for saying that. You summed it up brilliantly for how I feel also. The other thread burnt me out so will not go any further here but wanted you to know that Im here for ya

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Thanks Oceanbreeze, Magatus and Liza




Thank you sweetie, that means alot to me. Now you making me burst out tears. LOL!

You're welcome, Cheri.

Be good to yourself.

 

[Cheri]

Cheri, thank you for saying that. You summed it up brilliantly for how I feel also. The other thread burnt me out so will not go any further here but wanted you to know that Im here for ya

No problem Megpeachy! No women should go through that kind of preaching by strict Christens, Because I sure do know Jesus would never talk that way to us like they have. I am here for you too.

 

[Fly Free]

a round of for everybody!

 

[deafdyke]

Being a prostitute? We don't get paid to have sex, we make love to someone we love that a big differences.

I think she meant prostitute as a metaphor. Like not being true to yourself or having sex purely for pleasure instead of making love to someone.

And how are we are enemies against God? Every One of us have sin and we never changed our ways to be a perfect person Only Jesus was alone a perfect human being. You know what Reba? You sound like you never did anything horrible in your lifetime? But you go on here and make us feel like crap. Is that a really a true Christen being?

Exactly Reba! Judge ye that ye not be judged. The only person who can ultimatly judge is God. That includes judgment on things like abortion, homosexuality, and things like that! I would say that if God is as loving and understanding and caring as His followers say He is, then He will understand that my love for someone who just happens to have the same body parts down south as I do is as sacred and good as a hetrosexual pairing.....Hey did you know that some Bibical scholars and some churches accept homosexuality? They are going through exactly what many others went through over a hundred years ago trying to prove that Bible does not say that slavery/racism/ antisemitism and a lot of other "Bible-based teachings" were legitimate. You know how everyone is horrified at the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Idenity churches nowadays? Those were mainstream teachings back then. Matter of fact, I remember reading somewhere that a lot of Americans supported Hitler b/c he was getting rid of those filthy Jews! I bet you ANYTHING in thirty or forty years we'll look back in horror at how many churches used the Bible to justify anti-homosexual stuff! He will understand and forgive. If I love God and know love, then I know Him. I am not perfect, and I do sin against Him.......but if I know love then I have known God, and I do not need to accept any one as my savoiur. All I need to know is how to say "I love you" and REALLY mean it!

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Jeez, I am not bringing up the emotional with my posts or debats. I talk in black and white without emotional, do you understand that? I know what love means and I don't use it on my debates. Do you remember that I already explained my emotional side of the abortion.

You are making big deal out of the "Slut" or anything with label-ing. That is not the point that Y mad. Y are trying states the point that why do people open their legs at first place. Therefore they may be called with those labels depneds on the situations. For example, if they open their legs before marriage and they are labeled that they act aganist God's want. I am not saying that they are slut or whatever. But they are acting aganist God's want.

What if Jesus Christ approved my comments and shout that your comments are wrong? You have no idea what God will approves or not. It also applies to me. Therefore stop saying that I am judging or we are judging but in fact you are judging too.

I am looking straight down to the bible verses and use our logic common sense, that's all. I do not depends on our views or thoughts without bible support. We are sinners and our thoughts are full of evil, sinners and unholy. Therefore we gotta use bible lot to support our debates or desicions.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Jeez, I am not bringing up the emotional with my posts or debats. I talk in black and white without emotional, do you understand that? I know what love means and I don't use it on my debates. Do you remember that I already explained my emotional side of the abortion.

You are making big deal out of the "Slut" or anything with label-ing. That is not the point that Y mad. Y are trying states the point that why do people open their legs at first place. Therefore they may be called with those labels depneds on the situations. For example, if they open their legs before marriage and they are labeled that they act aganist God's want. I am not saying that they are slut or whatever. But they are acting aganist God's want.

What if Jesus Christ approved my comments and shout that your comments are wrong? You have no idea what God will approves or not. It also applies to me. Therefore stop saying that I am judging or we are judging but in fact you are judging too.

I am looking straight down to the bible verses and use our logic common sense, that's all. I do not depends on our views or thoughts without bible support. We are sinners and our thoughts are full of evil, sinners and unholy. Therefore we gotta use bible lot to support our debates or desicions.

CrazymanWoot,

How can you and others make the statements you've all made, and not expect people to get upset? That's rediculous!

I've never had an abortion, but that doesn't mean that I don't know how emotional the issue is. You say what you said was black and white according to the Bible. Well, Bud. That's the problem! The issues surrounding abortion aren't black and white. It's a gray area with many different reasons for the terminations that take place. Christians are trying to turn abortion into a black and white issue saying it's a sin/murder, ect, and that's wrong!

Christians need to step out of women's wombs and tend to their own lives.

:roll:

 

[Crazymanw00t]

CrazymanWoot,
Christians need to step out of women's wombs and tend to their own lives.

Sorry I have to disagree with it. We need to protect entrie unborn babies. What if your mother had you on the abortion. You won't be here typing. It is very sick.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Sorry I have to disagree with it. We need to protect entrie unborn babies. What if your mother had you on the abortion. You won't be here typing. It is very sick.

That is true. I wouldn't be here. But, you know...In all honesty, my Mother had the option of having an abortion when she found out she was pregnant. She chose to continue the pregnancy, and for that, I am grateful. However, I still believe and will always believe that every woman has the right to make the choice for herself.

For the record, I have discussed these issues with my Mother, and I feel for the position she was in. I have never said to her "Oh, Gosh, Mom..You considered aborting? How terrible!" No, I said... "That must have been hard for you, Mom. I'm sorry, and I understand."

See, I respect the place she was in, and I don't judge her . She made the choice she thought was right for her, and I applaud her for it. At least, she made her choice and didn't have someone screaming at her about how "wrong" she was.

The problem I have is that people want to impose their will on women, and I really don't feel they have the right. That is how I feel and I will stand by that.