Advice please: son doesn't want to wear HAs

[Cloggy]

Oh, so she can hear perfectly? Less than perfect, she has partial hearing. It's a fact.

WOW. Where does that come from? I only hear you talk about "perfect"... interesting..

If you put it like that, then children with CI that most parents are talking about here are hearing.. But I think most deaf posters hear will disagree with you..

Groan. You have one of the worst cases of denial I've ever seen in a hearing parent. If you want to think CIs give you perfect hearing, not partial and spread that nontruth, whatever.

you said it.. Not me. Would never say that.

And yet you do everything you can to make sure she has every accommodaton and service as if she does not hear that successfully. Hmm.

Yes..hmmm. Perhaps we want her to have the best support after she has not heard for the first 2-1/2 years of her life..
We realise that one has to learn to hear, then learn to listen....
Some people think that when the have CI they are done, but it's hard work. A lot to learn..

 

[Cloggy]

 

[Cheetah]

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted

BUT, i know that the research says that the average child implanted at age 1 or earlier is fully caught up to age appropriate by age 3 or at the latest, age 5. So, do they need accomidations in the mainstream? I don't know, i don't parent that child and i wouldn't presume to have the answer. .

Then why make general statements like deaf kids with HAs and CIs CAN hear in oral classrooms if you don't know and don't have the answer? If you can only speak from experience with your own child, then do not speak for all deaf kids, with or without CIs or HAs then wonder why we argue with you and say you're mistaken.

i have interacted with greater than 60 young oral deaf kids, on a daily basis, over the last 3 years. And then another couple dozen in shorter terms, camps and the such. So, no, my chils is not the only example i have.

in fact, my child is actually considered a less than "star" user.

 

[GrendelQ]

Wirelessly posted



i have interacted with greater than 60 young oral deaf kids, on a daily basis, over the last 3 years. And then another couple dozen in shorter terms, camps and the such. So, no, my chils is not the only example i have.

in fact, my child is actually considered a less than "star" user.

Same here. I consider her a superstar 'cause she's my baby, as do her teachers and audis, but my daughter is by no means one of the superstars compared with other children implanted early these days: she may test at and above her age level on the assessments given to all children, deaf or hearing, but she sure doesn't speak exactly like a typical hearing child or even like the typical kid who has gone through AVT. And we have a significant gap in vocabulary that probably wouldn't exist if she were focusing only on one language. And if she had more sophisticated peer language models. In either language. We're working hard to build up her vocabulary and amp up discussion with peers.

 

[deafbajagal]

There will always be kids that don't want to wear their hearing aids.

Does your son know sign language?

Finally! Back to the topic!

 

[Sunshine]

because they need to catch up with hearing

Why need?? She will not die if deaf forever.

 

[rebeccalj]

Yes FJ. There are superstars, but you have to understand that there have ALWAYS been a significent number of superstars who thrive with very minimal accomodnations. Even back in the old days, in the 40's and 50's.The CI is amazing.........but as jillo says they only represent a small minority of dhh kids...AND you'll see implanted kids in ALL sorts of Deaf Ed placements, from Clarke style to Deaf School (even at TLC they have implanted kids!) to regional dhh programs.

I had *zero* accommodations. I'm a CFO.

 

[rebeccalj]

And now she can hear...partially. More truthful to say that she can hear partially than just "she can hear". If you tell hearing people that, they will assume you mean she can hear fluently and that's how misunderstandings about CIs spread.

Maybe it's hard for you to understand but from the deaf person's point of view, hearing is never perfect, it's always partial if they are able to get any hearing from auditory devices. I wear HAs and with them, I can pick up vowels in one's speech, not consonants and I require lipreading to understand the gist of what they're saying. If people ask me if I can hear with my HAs, I dont say "yes, I can hear."

Never. It's the worst thing to tell them for they leap to conclusions that I can hear well with HAs. Instead, I explain that I can hear vowels, not consonants. I never ever ever just say "I can hear" for it's not truthful and it would lead to more misunderstandings and false assumptions.

To give you a better understanding of why when you say "with HAs or CIs, she can hear" we don't accept that as is - try wearing ear plugs then sitting down with your family and have a conversation with them. Guaranteed when someone asks you if you can hear them, you're not going to say "yes, I can hear you." No no no, you are going to say "I can hear you but not that well."



Like Jazzberry said - is it really so hard to say "with CIs, she can hear most sounds" - ?

I rarely wear mine anymore (useless/uncomfortable) so when hearies ask if I can hear I say, "Yes, things that are hard to understand are still hard to understand only they're louder."

 

[Jazzberry]

It varies so very much -- and I've regularly observed so many little ones with CIs in those circumstances . In my daughter's case, she 'hears' really well in that sort of environment: lots of people spread far and wide outside. By 'really well', I mean that there's no noticeable difference in the way she interacts/communicates/detects sounds and the way a typical hearing kid does in that environment. Where I notice a big difference is when we are in a place where there's a lot of traffic sound. So, for example, rush hour in our front yard (vs. the quiet of our backyard): Li playing with a hearing child with traffic sounds = a whole lot of "what?' "I can't hear you!" that the hearing child doesn't seem to be doing. Same with at the ocean.

Lots of voices , group talking is no problem, dealing with the environmental sounds of traffic or waves is very tough.

It does sound like your daughter is getting a lot of benefit from her CI. FWIW, she is getting more benefit from her CI then some late deafened adults I know that have decided to go for that operation, including a friend that got one as recently as 3 years ago.

Still, going back to one of the earlier issues discussed in this thread, I'm still solidly in the camp that think its better for all involved to be very clear on the child's hearing status.

When people aren't clear about it -- bad things often happen.

Children at a young age often don't fully understand the effects of hearing loss, no matter how frequently its discussed, and may think that some of their difficulties are due to intelligence or personality issues instead.

Other people, even adults may think the same thing -- because after all the child with the CI or hearing aid hears! Their own parents said so!

GrendalQ, I'm not saying that this is always the case with your daughter or with all children whose families choose to simply introduce their children twith CIs or hearing aids as "hearing" -- but it does happen. I've seen it happen.

ETA: And then of course as already discussed upthread -- why send mixed messages? Obviously you and other parents of children with CIs believe that they need accommodations in school in order to do well. Asking for those accommodations and then introducing your child as "hearing" is sending a mixed message.

It also sends a message to the children that they should try to hide their hearing loss when they can. Again, not a good idea, for many reasons!

 

[rebeccalj]

How about "My child can hear well enough"?

I personally don't think it's that hard.....

I don't think the issue is being able to refrain from saying "My child can hear.", but rather that it's already been said MANY times, so they can't take it back. Hence, that's why I think there is a lot of defending going on in this thread.

I think everything has been said (mostly in a civil way, yay!) about why the statement "My child can hear." is an issue, and really, there's nothing else we can do. Anyone can do what they want. We can only hope that they can take our reasoning to heart.

The problem with, "My child can hear well enough," is that it is also problematic. My Mum said the same thing simply because I responded to loud sounds (ie: airplanes, ambulances). Fact was I did *NOT* hear well enough. Not even close.

 

[rebeccalj]

no.. She hears.. More than partially.

If you put it like that, then children with CI that most parents are talking about here are hearing.. But I think most deaf posters hear will disagree with you..

To give you a better understanding of how much Lotte hears.. She hears and understands the conversation that the family has.. Even if it's not directed to her..

that would be downplaying reality.. Just because people don't like to hear how well Lotte hears, is not a reason to cover it up.. We tell it as it is...

Obviously I do not know Lotte, and I'm not around her, so take this for what it is worth.

Deaf children learn, very early, to develop other senses, and skills, as part of their innate need to communicate and to survive. They compensate for their hearing loss in ways that hearing adults, unless *very* perceptive and observant, cannot pick up.

What you see as her 'picking up conversations' could just be a brilliant young lady who is exceptionally good at body language reading, and only needing every 3rd or 4th word via lip reading, to understand what is being said.

 

[rebeccalj]

Wirelessly posted (droid)

Life is not a race. Life is not a monoply game in which the one with the most at the end wins.

But, if I *finally* pass GO, in my own time, do I still get to collect $200?

 

[Cloggy]

Obviously I do not know Lotte, and I'm not around her, so take this for what it is worth.

Deaf children learn, very early, to develop other senses, and skills, as part of their innate need to communicate and to survive. They compensate for their hearing loss in ways that hearing adults, unless *very* perceptive and observant, cannot pick up.

What you see as her 'picking up conversations' could just be a brilliant young lady who is exceptionally good at body language reading, and only needing every 3rd or 4th word via lip reading, to understand what is being said.

If she would be able to see through walls... you might be right..

I know what you mean... and with Lotte, that's not so much the case... At least, not more than with the rest of us. I also sometimes hear part of a conversation and fill in the blanks...

 

[Cloggy]

Why need?? She will not die if deaf forever.

She won't?

 

[GrendelQ]

ETA: And then of course as already discussed upthread -- why send mixed messages? Obviously you and other parents of children with CIs believe that they need accommodations in school in order to do well. Asking for those accommodations and then introducing your child as "hearing" is sending a mixed message.

It also sends a message to the children that they should try to hide their hearing loss when they can. Again, not a good idea, for many reasons!

Jazzberry, I know so many families of children with CIs, no one introduces their child as a "hearing child" Hearing status comes up frequently when it comes to children, as part of how they communicate. Most with CIs consider and refer to their children as "deaf." Not HOH, or partly hearing. And they say, when it comes up, that with CIs on, their child can also hear. Just as someone might say he or she is deaf, but with HAs on, can hear people speaking Doesn't mean you are claiming to be a 'hearing person'.

My child attends a school for the deaf. She gets on a special van with other deaf kids. The drivers know these kids are deaf. I explain to the van driver how to communicate with my child by saying that she's deaf, she's fluent in ASL (and ask if the driver is, she knows some signs but of course is not fluent, they rarely are). So, I explain that my daughter wears CIs, and with them on, she will be able to 'hear' the driver speaking in a normal voice, no need to turn around to face her. Introducing her to the deaf mother of a child who rides along to monitor her daughter's feeding/breathing apparatus and the other kids, I introduce her by name, mention that she's deaf and fluent in ASL. I really don't see how letting the driver know that with her CIs on, she can communicate by spoken language, and with those who know ASL, she can communicate by sign language is misleading anyone or hiding anything. She's bimodally bilingual and fluent in both a spoken and sign language. I wish I were. Why would I hide or diminish her ability to communicate with ease in either language?

 

[Daredevel7]

The problem with, "My child can hear well enough," is that it is also problematic. My Mum said the same thing simply because I responded to loud sounds (ie: airplanes, ambulances). Fact was I did *NOT* hear well enough. Not even close.

I understand but aren't you projecting your own experiences onto someone? I know some CI kids have far more "hearing" capability than I would ever have. During my research upon getting a CI, a teenager boy came over and I asked him if I could test his "hearing". I didn't want others to test because they probably repeat the same thing. So I said (as my cat was walking in front of him) "How many legs does the animal in front of you have?" He immediately answered 4. He can understand not only a strangers voice but also one with a deaf accent.

Now, I have no idea if he'd do well with noisy environments. I doubt it because HOH don't even do well. Hell, my hearing friends always say HUH?!? to each other when there is loud music nearby.

Regardless, I wouldn't go so far to tell the parent "your child is going to end up just like me, not knowing jack squat what's going on around him, struggling to fit in." I personally would share my experience, and give advice such as telling the child "if you don't know what's going on, speak up. Talk to the teacher or me." or "give him some social time with other deaf kids." or something.

 

[Lissa]

No child is the exact the same, there may be kids who were implanted at the same time with the exactly same history, but will not hear the same.

I was a child who was implanted late in life(10 1/2 years old), I can hear some without lipreading but the person has to be right behind me, plus even with lipreading I miss a lot of whats going on. I think every child, even though implanted very early on, will have problems understanding people, I doubt they'd understand every single word, they are still deaf after all.

I use a lot of visual clues to give me ideas of what the speaker's saying, look at body language, read lipds, listening and maybe get them to demonstrate by using gestures.

 

[rick48]

Lissa, FJ, Grendel, Daredeveil, and Cloggy,

All very good posts and show that not only with our children/selves but based on the observations of others there is a range at which people with cis function.

For others, it is time to stop projecting your experiences onto our kids. You may not want to hear this but as so many of you are apt to claim we parents are in denial so too are you if you are seeking to project your experiences 20-40 years ago without cis onto the ci kids of today.

My daughter can talk on the phone and it does not have to be in "perfect" situations, she can carry on conversations with others from different rooms and on different floors of our house.

What bothers me is that she and so many others when we relate these stories are dismissed as "superstars" or that they are only a small minority. That is nothing more than an attempt to marginalize our/their experiences in order to avoid the reality that they are more the norm then many of you are afraid to admit. Was my daughter one of the earliest kids implanted, yes, is she a "superstar" by no means no. I have observed, witnessed, personally known 100's of kids over the past 20 years and not all of course (but that is another discussion) but the overwhelming majority of these kids are doing very well. I am totally blown away by some of the bi-lat kids.

No the ci is not a miracle, it is not a cure for deafness, it does not make a deaf child hearing (but they can hear) but it is, for those who do not get benefits from HAs, still the best choice that currently exists to give deaf children and adults access to sound. We parents are always being told how we do not "listen" well some of you should not only "listen" to the ci kids but to those ci adults who have consistently told you how it has made thier lives easier and how they wish they had had it at a younger age.

Finally, to those who keep claiming that cochlear implant decision is done for the convenience of hearing parents, if you truly believe that, then you do not know very many parents of children with cochlear implants. If, as I suspect, it is your argument de jour, then it is a very weak one and time for you to come up with a new cliche.
Rick

 

[Beowulf]

Lissa, FJ, Grendel, Daredeveil, and Cloggy,

All very good posts and show that not only with our children/selves but based on the observations of others there is a range at which people with cis function.

For others, it is time to stop projecting your experiences onto our kids. You may not want to hear this but as so many of you are apt to claim we parents are in denial so too are you if you are seeking to project your experiences 20-40 years ago without cis onto the ci kids of today.

My daughter can talk on the phone and it does not have to be in "perfect" situations, she can carry on conversations with others from different rooms and on different floors of our house.

What bothers me is that she and so many others when we relate these stories are dismissed as "superstars" or that they are only a small minority. That is nothing more than an attempt to marginalize our/their experiences in order to avoid the reality that they are more the norm then many of you are afraid to admit. Was my daughter one of the earliest kids implanted, yes, is she a "superstar" by no means no. I have observed, witnessed, personally known 100's of kids over the past 20 years and not all of course (but that is another discussion) but the overwhelming majority of these kids are doing very well. I am totally blown away by some of the bi-lat kids.

No the ci is not a miracle, it is not a cure for deafness, it does not make a deaf child hearing (but they can hear) but it is, for those who do not get benefits from HAs, still the best choice that currently exists to give deaf children and adults access to sound. We parents are always being told how we do not "listen" well some of you should not only "listen" to the ci kids but to those ci adults who have consistently told you how it has made thier lives easier and how they wish they had had it at a younger age.

Finally, to those who keep claiming that cochlear implant decision is done for the convenience of hearing parents, if you truly believe that, then you do not know very many parents of children with cochlear implants. If, as I suspect, it is your argument de jour, then it is a very weak one and time for you to come up with a new cliche.
Rick

A classic audist response.