Oral school

[Lighthouse77]

Actually, I think there is some sense/truth in what Lighthouse is saying. I am severe/profoundly deaf, yet I learned to speak well. I disagree in that it is easy -- it does take time -- I had speech therapy until high school, so it is definitely a longer process than for a hearing person. But I don't see being able to speak as a "skill" either, just the same as Lighthouse was saying.

I do see the misconception that many have that if a deaf person can't speak, then they're "dumb." I see that all the time. We all know that's not true, but there's so many out there that don't realize that.

That's exactly what I mean. If I could hear, I would be speaking like everyone else with no problem. But some people sometimes treat it like it is a rare talent. like artists..An artist is a rare talent, in both hearing and deaf world. But when it comes to speaking, just about all hearing people can do it. Sure it take longer and hard work for a deaf person, but I don't consider it a skill or talent. I consider it as work. So that's why I think signers are just as intelligent as oralists.

 

[shel90]

Honestly, the only thing that bothers me is when people who were orally raised start complaining about their lives when they start learning sign. They have a right to complain about their lives if they really were miserable growing up. But if you ask them specifically, "So you didn't have a happy childhood then?", a lot of them answer "Well... at the time, yes I was happy, but now thinking back, it would have been better if I knew sign." I'm sorry but that IRRITATES me to no end. There is a difference between saying that it would have been better if you knew sign and COMPLAINING about not knowing sign, even though technically you were happy during your childhood.

I am sure people will say "Well, they were brainwashed, that's why they were happy."

Happiness is still happiness, right? Didn't anyone see Life is Beautiful?

I was miserable constantly trying to keep up with my peers, my teachers, and family gatherings trying to be like them but couldnt no matter how hard I tried to remind everyone that I couldnt catch everything, lipread, and etc etc. All those "neverminds" and "I will tell you laters" year after year took a toll on me and I just stopped trying and just was basically left out except for one-on-one situations. I couldnt understand why because everyone told me that I spoke so well, have good speech, or that I was so smart because I could talk well for a deaf person, but yet I wasnt treated as an equal. That sent me confusing messages as a child and as a result, I became so ashamed of my deafness trying to achieve that "hearing" status. Learning ASL changed everything. Sorry if that irritates u but it holds true for me and several of my friends who grew up orally. We all do not want to go back to being oral-only 24/7 ever again. The only ones that I have met who are happy with being oral are the ones who still dont know sign language like my friend in PA. I dont push it on her but rather share my experiences. She said going to Gallaudet made me like those angry Deaf people. She was so wrong...my 2 years at Gally, I never met a person who seemed angry all the time. It was the opposite. All I saw were confident and happy people who were proud to be deaf/Deaf and proud to use ASL. I had never seen that in my life growing up so it was mind blowing. I asked my friend what made her think that and she said she learned that all Gallaudet students are angry anti-hearing Deaf people from the TV show, Law and Order and the news of the protests which had nothing to do with my situation. However, I just let her think whatever she wants to believe in and dropped the subject. Her sister who is deaf had the same experiences as I did when she learned ASL. That doesnt mean u will become like us but I just see the same old pattern in real life with many of my friends who grew up orally and learned sign later. My friends who grew up with sign language cant understand why we feel the way we do about our upbringing.

If it irritates u, there is nothing I can do u change that cuz that is your view and feelings. This is my experience when I learned ASL. The quality of my life is so much better cuz for once, I dont feel disabled but just different from hearing people who is just as capable as they are of doing many things as them. Growing up, all I saw was what they could do and what I coudlnt do...now, I see that I could do it to but in a different way. If I had that growing up, I wouldnt have all these depression and self-injury problems that I developed in my early 20s.

My life is not perfect but I am very happy and content with myself. I was unhappy, not because my life wasnt perfect..it was because I never felt like I belonged anywhere.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I take back what I said. Now I think what YOU said was offensive.

I guess I must be really dumb for working too much to learn to speak. Gosh!

I can tell that you're new to the deaf world. So am I but it seems like you got a lot to learn.

I don't know,I felt this way since elementary school.I can easily remember my childhood since preschool. I thought it was ridiculous that they put me FM system and I can't benefit anything out of it. I was bored as bored can be. Honestly, I don't remember hearing a word from my teachers in classrooms. I just remember my speech therapy (I think she basically became my personal teacher). I am 32 years old and still feel this way.

I'm no new convert. I was like this since I was a child. teachers called me stubborn, but I knew why I was stubborn, they weren't listening.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I should also mention that I didn't come from a long line of successful people. most of my family are C's average type of people. Some are D's average. I am not the brightest bulb in the family. I am severe but near profound deaf since birth. I come from a long line of mountain people (which people refer as hillbillies.. I also come from a long line of Native Indians as well on my dad's side of family) . But guess what, I can speak as well as severe to profound deaf person who came from a long line of lawyers and doctors. So anyone can be oralism if they work hard at it. It doesn't matter what your background is. It just doesn't make you more intelligent than signers.

 

[shel90]

I should also mention that I didn't come from a long line of successful people. most of my family are C's average type of people. Some are D's average. I am not the brightest bulb in the family. I am severe but near profound deaf. I come from a long line of mountain people (which people refer as hillbillies.. I also come from a long line of Native Indians as well on my dad's side of family) . But guess what, I can speak as well as severe to profound deaf person who came from a long line of lawyers and doctors. So anyone can be oralism if they work hard at it. It doesn't matter what your background is. It just doesn't make you more intelligent than signers.

I dont know about the "anyone can be oral if they work hard at it" cuz my brother has the same dB loss as I do, went to the same oral preschool as I did with the same teachers. He spent 5 years in an oral-only program from when he was a baby to 5 years old and nothing worked. He was just unable to develop any oral skills whatsover. His lipreading skills are slightly better. My mom worked hard with him for 5 years with no success.

 

[Lighthouse77]

probably because your brother is not interested. like I said, I was stubborn too.

I am sure he does very well in sign language

 

[Bottesini]

probably because your brother is not interested. like I said, I was stubborn too.

I am sure he does very well in sign language

You seem to have a gift that will enable you to infuriate both the oralist and ASL camps.

 

[shel90]

probably because your brother is not interested. like I said, I was stubborn too.

I am sure he does very well in sign language

He is fluent in ASL...been in the Deaf Theatre as an actor a few times. Won several awards for ASL storytelling.

Stubborn...he was just a baby.

 

[Lighthouse77]

that's what I thought. I knew he is a successful type. stubborn people from childhood are really bright people. :P

yes, even as babies, they know what interests them and it ain't spoken languages.

 

[Bottesini]

that's what I thought. I knew he is a successful type. stubborn people from childhood are really bright people. :P

yes, even as babies, they know what interests them and it ain't spoken languages.

You are so far wrong in your thoughts that it is ludicrous..

 

[Lighthouse77]

no, people know what interests them. deaf people can be interested in oralism and that make them just as smart. They can be just as stubborn about using ASL. they know what they want and what is good for themselves.

 

[Bottesini]

no, people know what interests them. deaf people can be interested in oralism and that make them just as smart in their own way. They can be just as stubborn about using ASL. they know what they want and what is good for themselves.

You need to read up on language aquisition in profoundly deaf children.

You are so wrong about interested or not interested.

It is not a matter of intelligence either.

And obviously you are stubborn, but that is no excuse not to educate yourself before you say things that are going to hurt a lot of people.

 

[Daredevel7]

You seem to have a gift that will enable you to infuriate both the oralist and ASL camps.

It is kinda cool in a way, isn't it?

 

[shel90]

no, people know what interests them. deaf people can be interested in oralism and that make them just as smart. They can be just as stubborn about using ASL. they know what they want and what is good for themselves.

My brother was never exposed to ASL until after he was sent to the public school where I attended by being mainstreamed in which nobody was able understand him whatsover. That resulted in him to have behavior issues. An emergency IEP meeting was called at the end of the quarter, in which, someone from the team told my mom that my brother would be better off being sent to the Deaf school and learning sign language. My mom protested at first, but gave in. Finally, at the age of 5, my brother was exposed to ASL and picked up on it rapidly. He thrived at the Deaf school after not thriving in the oral-only and mainstreamed programs. I dont think at that age my brother knew what he wanted nor knew what was good for him. His language level was so delayed at that time.

 

[Lighthouse77]

You need to read up on language aquisition in profoundly deaf children.

You are so wrong about interested or not interested.

It is not a matter of intelligence either.

And obviously you are stubborn, but that is no excuse not to educate yourself before you say things that are going to hurt a lot of people.

I am certainly not going to treat them as they are not incapable of learning oralism.

Nor I'm certainly going to treat oralism are better at learning than ASL either.

 

[Daredevel7]

no, people know what interests them. deaf people can be interested in oralism and that make them just as smart. They can be just as stubborn about using ASL. they know what they want and what is good for themselves.

You've never met an "oral failure", correct? I have a family member who was one. His parents were so intent on oral only so they sent him to therapists and intensive training. And the result? Handmade signs and no speaking ability at the age of 6. I have to admit that part of it was his other problems (he was also legally blind and had ADD). However, the doctors had no way of determining either problems without any type of communication, ya know what I mean?

I am happy to say that he is caught up now.

 

[kokonut]

Circumstances vary. That is dependent on the person with hearing loss and amount and type of hearing loss. It's also a parental thing and the ultimate decision rests with them. One cannot say "yes" or "no" to this question since hearing loss range from mild to profound and how soon they are exposed to sound and words early on in their life. Secondly, technology has a come a long, long way that can address a lot of the communication gaps. It's become a more gray issue than a black and white one.

 

[Bottesini]

It is kinda cool in a way, isn't it?

United by one misguided soul?

 

[Bottesini]

I am certainly not going to treat them as they are not incapable of learning oralism.

Nor I'm certainly going to treat oralism are better at learning than ASL either.

That sentence makes absolutlly no sense.

 

[shel90]

Circumstances vary. That is dependent on the person with hearing loss and amount and type of hearing loss. It's also a parental thing and the ultimate decision rests with them. One cannot say "yes" or "no" to this question since hearing loss range from mild to profound and how soon they are exposed to sound and words early on in their life. Secondly, technology has a come a long, long way that can address a lot of the communication gaps. It's become a more gray issue than a black and white one.

I agree that it depends on each person. However, I am not too sure if I fully agree about depending on the amount and type of hearing loss. I have met HOH people who have no oral skills and yet, I have good enough oral skills to be able to communicate with almost any hearing person despite being born with a bilateral severe-profound deafness.

I have students with CIs who were implanted before school-age who have absulotely no oral skills and students with no CIs who have oral skills and vice versa.