It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

faire_jour said:
I completly disagree. I think that many parents find the Deaf community to be closed and unwelcoming. They are told they are wrong again and again. They are told that they will scar their children by their choices, that they are "not accepting their child as deaf", and that they "want to change them into hearing". They are shunned and often looked down on, for the simple fact that they can hear. This is not always the case, but it happens a lot. Why would you continue to associate with people who treat you like that? People who tell you that you are wrong to want your child to have oral skills, that they will fail and be uneducated if you make the "wrong" choices. I wouldn't want my child around those people either.
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You are again making generalizations about a whole culture based on the opinions of a few. That is exactly what we are attempting to avoid. We are also attempting to discover why hearing parents appear to take things as criticism that were never intended as such. Rather than accusing an entire group of people of being unwelcoming and closed off, why don't you try asking yourself, "Why do I take such offense at remarks from others that were not intended that way? Why do I find it necessary to look for the "right" and the "wrong" in the situation? I don't think you will find many who will tell you that you should not try to help your deaf child develop oral skills if they are capable, nor that it is "wrong" to do so. You certainly won't find them on this forum. Perhaps you are confusing a disagreement with an oral only approach with the development of oral skills. Those are really 2 separate topics.

Perhaps you are so afraid of making the wrong choices that you project your own fear into the statements of others, and as a consequence, see criticism where there is none. You have made reference to some statements being made here that absolutely have not been made. It is simply your interpretation of what is said. No offense intended, but you react to people with a great deal of defensiveness, and your defensiveness causes you to judge and accuse others. Please try to put it aside long enough to understand what is really being said, rather than what you fear will be said.

I would much prefer it if you would stick to relating your experience and feelings, rather than speaking vaguely of "they". Lets let others speak for themselves, shall we?
 
doubletrouble said:
I have 4 Deaf schools near where I am and I wouldn't send my child to any one of those schools. I used to work in one of them and the expectations that the school had for the students was extremely low. This is from a person who's mother was the first Deaf student of one of these schools, I worked there, and my family members have attened. They no longer attend the Deaf schools as well (and their parents are Deaf themselves) and are all attending public schools. The problem around here also is that it isn't just straight deaf children. The enrollment in one of the schools for Deaf children is so low, they are now admitting children who have other disabilities- and have nothing to do with deafness - to stay open. If my child had other issues, then I would consider these programs, but his only obstacle is that his ears do not work. I want my child to be in an enviroment that he is challenged and expected to do well, and that is what I have found in our school district.
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This is a problem in many places. I also wrote about the problem with our local TC program (but then I was told I was judging all Deaf schools, even though I clearly wasn't). My daughter is in a class of 7 students, and we are very lucky that only 2 are severely handicapped. The class that is one year younger has only one normally functioning child. How is my daughter supposed to be challenged if none of the other kids have a vocab bigger than 20 words? What happens when she gets to high school and she wants to take harder classes? I took several AP classes and my husband got straight A's, we expect great things from Miss Kat and her bi-bi school will probably be unable to provide those things to her, we will probably need to eventually mainstream her. It is not because we think that she doesn't belong at the Deaf school, but because the Deaf school will be unable to educate her in the way she deserves.
 
faire_jour said:
This is a problem in many places. I also wrote about the problem with our local TC program (but then I was told I was judging all Deaf schools, even though I clearly wasn't). My daughter is in a class of 7 students, and we are very lucky that only 2 are severely handicapped. The class that is one year younger has only one normally functioning child. How is my daughter supposed to be challenged if none of the other kids have a vocab bigger than 20 words? What happens when she gets to high school and she wants to take harder classes? I took several AP classes and my husband got straight A's, we expect great things from Miss Kat and her bi-bi school will probably be unable to provide those things to her, we will probably need to eventually mainstream her. It is not because we think that she doesn't belong at the Deaf school, but because the Deaf school will be unable to educate her in the way she deserves.
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We are getting off topic again, and the unsubstantiated accusations are beginning to fly.
 
jillio said:
We are getting off topic again, and the unsubstantiated accusations are beginning to fly.
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We are also getting creepy. I know my post will probably be removed, but as one of those multi handicapped, Faire Jour feels so superior to, I protest! Vigorously.
 
I have an observation. The most emotionally charged people in AD can be classified in 2 types: Parents and the deaf who were not happy with the way they were raised. Totally understandable since one is scared of how the child will come out and the other is frustrated about how his/her life developed and wants to stop parents from doing the same thing to their child. It seems that the fights usually happen between them.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Are you getting most of the negative comments from AD or in person?
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I have never experienced that myself, but because I am a parent mentor in Hands and Voices (a parent of deaf children organazation)
I hear this experience almost everyday. I had a parent come to me in tears because they visited our bi-bi school with her CI children and had older students run to the doors of the classrooms and point and stare and laugh at them. Of course she didn't place her child in that school.
 
Bottesini said:
We are also getting creepy. I know my post will probably be removed, but as one of those multi handicapped, Faire Jour feels so superior to, I protest! Vigorously.
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That is why I have tried to pull us back on track. We are not discussing school placement as a topic in itself, but only in how it relates to a parents unwilligness to provide cultural contact to their deaf child.

Sorry you were offended, Bott.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I have an observation. The most emotionally charged people in AD can be classified in 2 types: Parents and the deaf who were not happy with the way they were raised. Totally understandable since one is scared of how the child will come out and the other is frustrated about how his/her life developed and wants to stop parents from doing the same thing to their child. It seems that the fights usually happen between them.
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Astute observation. Both are passionate positions. But if a parent is truly concerned over the way their child will make it in this world, wouldn't it make sense to listen to what those who have gone before say is beneficial or not beneficial?
 
Bottesini said:
We are also getting creepy. I know my post will probably be removed, but as one of those multi handicapped, Faire Jour feels so superior to, I protest! Vigorously.
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I never said I or my child was superior, I just said that she needs a different education than a child who is deaf, blind and severely mentally retarded. How can one teacher serve both children appropriately?
 
faire_jour said:
I have never experienced that myself, but because I am a parent mentor in Hands and Voices (a parent of deaf children organazation)
I hear this experience almost everyday. I had a parent come to me in tears because they visited our bi-bi school with her CI children and had older students run to the doors of the classrooms and point and stare and laugh at them. Of course she didn't place her child in that school.
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How do you know that the children were laughing and pointing because of the CI? Kids laugh and point at the new kids touring the school everywhere. Kids are kids. But the parents take something that would have happened if she had been touring a public school with a hearing kid, and turn it into something judgemental and cruel. That is exactly what I mean by allowing your own uncomfortableness with the situation cause you to misinterpret the actions of others and as a consequence, become defensive when there is no need for it. Chances are very good that it had nothing to do with the CI at all, but with the fact that they were new students.

And, again, let me remind everyone that this is not going to turn into a discussion on the decision to implant and the "right" and "wrong" of a CI.
 
jillio said:
You are again making generalizations about a whole culture based on the opinions of a few. That is exactly what we are attempting to avoid. We are also attempting to discover why hearing parents appear to take things as criticism that were never intended as such. Rather than accusing an entire group of people of being unwelcoming and closed off, why don't you try asking yourself, "Why do I take such offense at remarks from others that were not intended that way? Why do I find it necessary to look for the "right" and the "wrong" in the situation? I don't think you will find many who will tell you that you should not try to help your deaf child develop oral skills if they are capable, nor that it is "wrong" to do so. You certainly won't find them on this forum. Perhaps you are confusing a disagreement with an oral only approach with the development of oral skills. Those are really 2 separate topics.

Perhaps you are so afraid of making the wrong choices that you project your own fear into the statements of others, and as a consequence, see criticism where there is none. You have made reference to some statements being made here that absolutely have not been made. It is simply your interpretation of what is said. No offense intended, but you react to people with a great deal of defensiveness, and your defensiveness causes you to judge and accuse others. Please try to put it aside long enough to understand what is really being said, rather than what you fear will be said.

I would much prefer it if you would stick to relating your experience and feelings, rather than speaking vaguely of "they". Lets let others speak for themselves, shall we?
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At this point I feel like that since I disagree with the majority I am being told that I am off topic and generalizing and misinterpreting. I am the only hearing parent (other than Jillo) in this thread, and I am being told I'm wrong! Do you want to know why or not? I am giving you reason after reason, and then being told I am wrong for those reasons. Either you want to hear why or you want to pat yourselves on the back for being right and talk bad about all those awful hearing parents.
 
Random question that may or may not be related to the topic: If ALL deaf schools were standardized and were on par with hearing schools (so that you can easily mainstream if you want to after like 5th grade or something), do you this will this make a significant difference in the hearing parents' choices in exposing the child to the deaf community? I believe that it would. I truly believe that some parents looked at deaf schools in their area and did not like their ways.
 
faire_jour said:
What did I accuse? I was sharing my experience.
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There is a big difference in between sharing experiences and sharing gross generalisations.

I had a parent come to me in tears because they visited our bi-bi school with her CI children and had older students run to the doors of the classrooms and point and stare and laugh at them. Of course she didn't place her child in that school.
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This is what I define as experience.


My daughter is in a class of 7 students, and we are very lucky that only 2 are severely handicapped. The class that is one year younger has only one normally functioning child. How is my daughter supposed to be challenged if none of the other kids have a vocab bigger than 20 words? What happens when she gets to high school and she wants to take harder classes? I took several AP classes and my husband got straight A's, we expect great things from Miss Kat and her bi-bi school will probably be unable to provide those things to her, we will probably need to eventually mainstream her. It is not because we think that she doesn't belong at the Deaf school, but because the Deaf school will be unable to educate her in the way she deserves.
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After reading your post(s), this is what I define as gross generalisations. Especially this one-

I never said I or my child was superior, I just said that she needs a different education than a child who is deaf, blind and severely mentally retarded. How can one teacher serve both children appropriately?
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An excellent teacher that has been trained in both fields of education. Developmentally delayed is the appropriate term as mentally retarded is akin to hearing-impaired. It's inappropriate to use the terminology mentally retarded.

It is inappropriate as a parent to compare the learning capabilities of a child's classmates as well in a forum.
 
faire_jour said:
At this point I feel like that since I disagree with the majority I am being told that I am off topic and generalizing and misinterpreting. I am the only hearing parent (other than Jillo) in this thread, and I am being told I'm wrong! Do you want to know why or not? I am giving you reason after reason, and then being told I am wrong for those reasons. Either you want to hear why or you want to pat yourselves on the back for being right and talk bad about all those awful hearing parents.
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Again,no one has told you that you are wrong. We are asking for clarification. We are asking you to look at things from a different perspective and then honestly see if your persective might be colored by your own bias. That is not to say that you are wrong. It is only to say that your defensiveness creates a situation that is not conducive to a productive discussion.
 
faire_jour said:
What did I accuse? I was sharing my experience.
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I will not engage in nit picking with another poster in this thread. You are perfectly welcome to share your experiences, but in order to do that, you will need to use "I" statements, and not "they" statements. Anytime one uses the term "they" one is speaking for another and not for oneself, and it is usually followed by an accusation of "what they did." I am attempting to get beyond that in this thread.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Random question that may or may not be related to the topic: If ALL deaf schools were standardized and were on par with hearing schools (so that you can easily mainstream if you want to after like 5th grade or something), do you this will this make a significant difference in the hearing parents' choices in exposing the child to the deaf community? I believe that it would. I truly believe that some parents looked at deaf schools in their area and did not like their ways.
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Possibly it could make a difference, but keep in mind, as well, that cultural experience doesn't always come from a school environment. So even parents that choose to mainstream can expose their child to Deaf Culture.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
There is a big difference in between sharing experiences and sharing gross generalisations.

This is what I define as experience.




After reading your post(s), this is what I define as gross generalisations. Especially this one-



An excellent teacher that has been trained in both fields of education. Developmentally delayed is the appropriate term as mentally retarded is akin to hearing-impaired. It's inappropriate to use the terminology mentally retarded.

It is inappropriate as a parent to compare the learning capabilities of a child's classmates as well in a forum.
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Well said, Mrs. Bucket! It is just this type of judgemental language and attitude that we are attempting to remedy in this thread.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
There is a big difference in between sharing experiences and sharing gross generalisations.

This is what I define as experience.




After reading your post(s), this is what I define as gross generalisations. Especially this one-



An excellent teacher that has been trained in both fields of education. Developmentally delayed is the appropriate term as mentally retarded is akin to hearing-impaired. It's inappropriate to use the terminology mentally retarded.

It is inappropriate as a parent to compare the learning capabilities of a child's classmates as well in a forum.
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I am explaining why some parents, at least in my area, are choosing to mainstream their deaf kids instead of placing them at our bi-bi school. If those reasons are offensive, I apologize, but it doesn't make them less true.
 
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