It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

you can't discuss CI with out the technology, it is technology

I am discussing deaf children and hearing parents, vallee. CI is secondary to the discussion. The topic is deaf children, hearing parents, and the emotional and psycho-social reasons that hearing parents deny deaf chldren bicultural exposure and contact. I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that. If the CI gets mentioned as a reason that parents deny exposure and contact, then we need to address the reasons that a parent would use a CI as justification for that, not the CI itself. If any more posts attempt to reduce this to a judgement on CI implantation, I will request that the posts be removed.
 
jillio said:
How exactly, was your mother rejected by the deaf community? You did not, by your own admission, even use hearing aids at the age, so you would not have been using any technology that would have created rejection. IF, indeed, whe was rejected, there has to be another explantion.
And, no, technology is not the issue. Not in this thread. You will need to visit the CI and HA thread if you wish to focus on the technology. The issues in this thread are cultural and psycho-social-emotional in nature.

vallee said:
Why is it so hard to believe my mother was rejected by the Deaf Community? Why are you questioning the rejection? I also explained it to you many months ago. I was not using technology because the dr believed I had nerve damaged and a hearing aid was not usable. The doctor suggested deaf school and when mom reached out, she was rejected.

I have got a question at this point. What is deaf community? Everybody makes it sound like there is one big organization called deaf community that regulates everything. Isnt it true when somebody says I have got a good relationship with deaf community, they mean I am getting along with deaf people around me, or in my area. So everybody's experience differs from area to area, people to people. Saying deaf community would do this or would never do that , dismisses the all other experiences people have in their local surrounding.

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I know that, Vallee. That is why it is very important for a deaf child to have that connection with the deaf community for the reasons you so stated. No matter which device they use, they will always be deaf and a deaf child should have the best of both worlds.

Having speech skills is good, but many parents stop there. They don't go that extra mild to learn ASL themselves or find role models for the child, so that child learns his or her native language. I've heard parents on this forum question.... "What if the parent doesn't know ASL?" Well, then that is where the deaf community comes in. If you expose your child to his or her language from an early age, they will learn it irrespective of his or her access to sound.

The child's well being doesn't begin and end with the ears or what's on them. The child's well being encompasses a whole list of things that parents don't always account for.

Exactly. And those are the issues that need to be discussed here. Not just the child's development, but the parents' inability to deal with their own issues.
 
I have got a question at this point. What is deaf community? Everybody makes it sound like there is one big organization called deaf community that regulates everything. Isnt it true when somebody says I have got a good relationship with deaf community, they mean I am getting along with deaf people around me, or in my area. So everybody's experience differs from area to area, people to people. Saying deaf community would do this or would never do that , dismisses the all other experiences people have in their local surrounding.

-

Agreed. Which is why I use Deaf Culture to describe a specific group membership, and deaf
community to refer to deaf people in general.
 
To answer your question Jillio, yes, I have encountered such Deaf people being closed minded and extremely judgemental. I have had strangers come up to me in supermarkets where I am shopping with my children sign away that I was ashamed to my child and I should be embarassed to have him implanted. My mother's funeral last August, some Deaf people I didn't even know, expressed their "grave concerns" over my decision to implant my child. My son is now at an age where he understands all that has gone (and is going) all around him. He even looks at these individuals with distain, contempt, just because we decided to give him an assistive device. I have never once said in his presence that the CI was a miracle or a cure, but he at the age of 10 has written essays, poems about how much he loves his CI's and is glad that he has them. This being said, he has members of the Deaf community right in his own family- from grandparents, to aunts and uncles, and cousins. He has been exposed to both communites and schools and has made it clear to me that he would never want to attend a school for the Deaf. Yes, we have made it very clear to my son that he is still deaf- regardless if he has implants on, but for him- his deafness does not define him - like in the instance of my parents et al. Instead, it's just a part of who is is, along with many other wonderful qualities that he has.
 
Jillio, are you writing essays??? :)

I think my parents are a good example in the differences in parents' reactions. Both of them were very upset when they found out that I was deaf. My dad took it really hard, he didn't even want to tell anyone in the family that I was deaf. My mom quickly got over it and went into "practical" mode, gathering as much information as she could, took me to a deaf school to get assessed, etc. If I learned ASL, I am pretty sure my dad would be against it. I doubt he'd try to learn to sign, but my mom definitely would have. It just so happened that I was able to communicate well with speech reading at a young age, so my mom was happy that I could develop language at a normal rate and my dad was happy that I could talk and "be normal". I've personally known two different type of parents, and if I try to imagine what they would say here in AD. My dad would probably have ignored everyone, basically saying "You don't know anything". My mom is pretty level headed, so she would talk to people about things. However, she doesn't take people's crap easily. If someone was being an ass, she will refrain from talking to that person. If enough people are being asses, she will eventually stop going on AD or at least get an email address from one or two people she found who have similar conditions as me and personally ask them questions. So in either case, AD isn't very appealing to them if those few "ass-y" people keep monopolizing the thread/conversation.


Yup, my parents probably would have done the same thing, especially my dad.
 
I am discussing deaf children and hearing parents, vallee. CI is secondary to the discussion. The topic is deaf children, hearing parents, and the emotional and psycho-social reasons that hearing parents deny deaf chldren bicultural exposure and contact. I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that. If the CI gets mentioned as a reason that parents deny exposure and contact, then we need to address the reasons that a parent would use a CI as justification for that, not the CI itself. If any more posts attempt to reduce this to a judgement on CI implantation, I will request that the posts be removed.

Since you posted this thread I will keep from posting anything on this thread.
 
To answer your question Jillio, yes, I have encountered such Deaf people being closed minded and extremely judgemental. I have had strangers come up to me in supermarkets where I am shopping with my children sign away that I was ashamed to my child and I should be embarassed to have him implanted. My mother's funeral last August, some Deaf people I didn't even know, expressed their "grave concerns" over my decision to implant my child. My son is now at an age where he understands all that has gone (and is going) all around him. He even looks at these individuals with distain, contempt, just because we decided to give him an assistive device. I have never once said in his presence that the CI was a miracle or a cure, but he at the age of 10 has written essays, poems about how much he loves his CI's and is glad that he has them. This being said, he has members of the Deaf community right in his own family- from grandparents, to aunts and uncles, and cousins. He has been exposed to both communites and schools and has made it clear to me that he would never want to attend a school for the Deaf. Yes, we have made it very clear to my son that he is still deaf- regardless if he has implants on, but for him- his deafness does not define him - like in the instance of my parents et al. Instead, it's just a part of who is is, along with many other wonderful qualities that he has.

And that is what I am suggesting we all attempt to do for all of our deaf children. I am sorry that you have had to encounter more of the militant attitude than I have. I have run into a few hearing people that have made rude comments regarding my use of sign with my son. There are rude deaf people and rude hearing people. It is not acceptable coming from either, nor is it productive.

Your son has a Deaf family of birth. I gave my son a Deaf family by culture. We both did the same thing.
 
Just wanted to thank the thread creator for starting a wonderful and healthy debate about culture, diversity and society.

I'd just love to share a wonderful short story that relates to this.

A shepherd had so many coloured sheep but noticed the sheep would only stick with their kind. Their kind, you ask? Their colour.

The shepherd had none of this and would lump the sheep together and his wife would shave them all to make beautiful & intricate sweaters.

Moral of this story- You can choose your path or allow others to choose your path.
 
Let me jump in here with a question...

Btw, I agree with you both about atitudes and what not, but having said that...

Where does that atitude start? Does it start with a pre-conceived notion that the parent wants their child to be apart of the hearing world, and therefore they seek out advice from that vantage point or does it start with the medical professional that says if you want your child to fit in, you must do this, that, or the other, to ensure your child's success in the hearing world?

You ask a very good question here. :hmm:

My father is a retired M.D. so he clearly sees it from a pathological view. He's a firm believer in doing what most people do... Since most people speak and most don't sign, the logical conclusion for him was to get me to confirm to the norm as much as possible. He's like that with everything not just deafness but I won't go into details here as they aren't revelant to this thread. My least favorite phrase is "Most people blah blah blah". :roll: I'm not "most people". Many hearing have that attitude if not to the same extent as my father.

From what I see with hearing parents of deaf children want their children to be part of the hearing world. To many of them -if not all, a child who is unable to speak is somehow less human and more like a brute. I remember a book that had a title that states it all: "The deaf mute howls" by Albert Balin which pretty much sums up the hearing parents' worst fears. It's a pro sign book btw. I don't know if it's just my imagination but I'd think a lot of deaf blacks bear the brunt of hearing fears.

Most of them tend not to question other people especially when they're dealing with matters that they've never had to deal with before. So they turn to those they deem to be the supreme authorities. Enter the doctors and audiologists who inform the parents that if they allow the child to sign, it will hurt their chances to function in society and that they must not be allowed to sign or it'll hurt their ability to speak well.

It's a vicious cycle that feeds on both the medical view of deafness and the bias toward speech. Just my :2c:
 
I must say, this is an excellent thread to begin with.

I think the word "rejection" can come on as a strong thing but aside from that, its about how both sides generalizes the attitude for each other.

From what I see, it is also about instilling the fear itself for both sides because when that happens, both sides are asking to get the bigger picture of how one can possibly fit in. When that does not happen, that also gets to a point where everybody feels they are not able to meet halfway or better yet, to set a parallel line.

I'm on the sidekick at the moment and will bring some more insight to this later on to continue this discussion.

As I said I'd be continuing to step in and put my thoughts out on the board.

This is in no way to be comparable with finding how I reacted when I learned my son was autistic but in a sense, I could see where the hearing parents are coming from when they found out their child was deaf. It was more of like coming into a shock and disbelief. That alone is scary when you have NO idea of what could be coming up next or whatever would be down the road.

Sure, It is natural to have these reactions but u know, by stepping out of the zone only can help make it progress a bit better. In some cases, it does not always work. When someone comes into a defensive mechanism, thus the denial part comes in play as well. I don't think there's ever one parent that has felt the denial at the beginning. They are vastly clueless when it comes to their child. As time goes along, the more they know, the more they become scared because it's like they feel they have "lost" their child.

Now I'm not saying it is for every parents out there but in most case, I've seen where there are some who are very supportive, and some aren't.

I think in a diplomatic manner, You'd think by stepping out of the horizons - That can also open a lot of aspects/perspective. Some of them may not be willingly to be open about it but then, some are.
 
It's really too bad that we can't get more hearing parents here to discuss. I am under the impression that there is only a handful of hearing parents of deaf children on AD. I am not surprised though. I mean, not everyone, especially the older generation, is proficient in internet forums. I am sure it does not occur to some people to go to online forums to talk to deaf people for research. First thing my mom did was to assess me at a deaf school (Clarke), so she talked to the teachers and audiologists and took a tour of the school. She was willing to put me in a school with the deaf, so it was not that she had a problem with me being with other deaf people. She just had a problem with the school itself (didn't think it was consistent or structured) plus it helped that the school DID reject me (sniff sniff). It wasn't a cultural rejection, they felt that I'd do better in a private school. Anyway, just saying that my mom was willing to move to Boston to enroll me in Clarke, but did not like how the school was. Nothing to do with "eww! deaf people!". :)
 
Also, I want to add, my mom DID try to get me deaf friends. Aside from going to deaf conventions, she would introduce me to other deaf children that she knew through people (I don't remember how) and the clients of my speech therapist. I remember there was a woman who had 2 deaf boys, and I know she asked them to come over and play with me. Plus another girl who I actually played with often. I don't have many deaf friends but I DO have them. However, I'm wondering what people think about this? Is this "enough" exposure to the deaf community? If not, then that means the only option is that I'd have to go to a deaf school. What I am asking is, would my mom be considered one of those people who "rejects" the deaf community because she felt I'd do better in a private school, not a deaf school, even though she has tried to get me to meet other deaf children?
 
Just wanted to thank the thread creator for starting a wonderful and healthy debate about culture, diversity and society.

I'd just love to share a wonderful short story that relates to this.

A shepherd had so many coloured sheep but noticed the sheep would only stick with their kind. Their kind, you ask? Their colour.

The shepherd had none of this and would lump the sheep together and his wife would shave them all to make beautiful & intricate sweaters.

Moral of this story- You can choose your path or allow others to choose your path.

You are welcome. I hope that you will feel free to contribute as we move along.
 
I have one question...is it bad to send children to Deaf schools? *If they are nearby* since I can undy about not wanting to send the child to a school that is so far but if one is nearby and you (parents) dont want to send them or yourself (deaf people) dont want to go?

I have seen so many Deaf schools and they arent all that different from public schools ..only smaller but many families pay high prices for private schools due to the small number of students in each classroom so the Deaf schools offer that but FREE?

What's so terrible about Deaf schools?
 
Also, I want to add, my mom DID try to get me deaf friends. Aside from going to deaf conventions, she would introduce me to other deaf children that she knew through people (I don't remember how) and the clients of my speech therapist. I remember there was a woman who had 2 deaf boys, and I know she asked them to come over and play with me. Plus another girl who I actually played with often. I don't have many deaf friends but I DO have them. However, I'm wondering what people think about this? Is this "enough" exposure to the deaf community? If not, then that means the only option is that I'd have to go to a deaf school. What I am asking is, would my mom be considered one of those people who "rejects" the deaf community because she felt I'd do better in a private school, not a deaf school, even though she has tried to get me to meet other deaf children?

No, absolutely not. It sounds as if your mother made every effort to insure that you had peers and friendships with kids you could relate to. You also stated earlier that she took you to conventions where there were deaf signers. From what you have told me, your mother did not allow any of her personal bias enter into what decisions she made on your behalf.
 
I know this.

I disagree that it's all about language access. The CI is all about language access, too. I have seen many success in this route, too. I have met so many deaf people that thrived in the hearing world born deaf or not. That's why I do not believe that all deaf children should be only secluded to deaf education. Deaf schools should be a tool to help you mainstream to the local district school.



It's all about support and being in the right school system deaf or not. I have seen many children using sign language that have poor language. I have seen a few deaf children who sign and have poor speech skills. Do I know why their speech skills is poor? No. Do I know if the parent are doing everything with full support to help their children thrive? No. Do I know why the children with sign language/no CI have poor language skills? No. Do we fully know their life enought to blame it that it's only because ASL is not in their household? No. Does this sound like sign language is helping bridge the gap with language problems, doesn't seem so. This is what parents don't want.

I am sure that poor support system applies to all children with disabilities. Deafness is not different to other disabilities.

I disagree with that.
 
A split placement like this is a great solution to the issue of education, as well as the psycho-social needs of children. I wish we saw more of them.

I agree...I would love to see more of those.
 
I know that, Vallee. That is why it is very important for a deaf child to have that connection with the deaf community for the reasons you so stated. No matter which device they use, they will always be deaf and a deaf child should have the best of both worlds.

Having speech skills is good, but many parents stop there. They don't go that extra mild to learn ASL themselves or find role models for the child, so that child learns his or her native language. I've heard parents on this forum question.... "What if the parent doesn't know ASL?" Well, then that is where the deaf community comes in. If you expose your child to his or her language from an early age, they will learn it irrespective of his or her access to sound.

The child's well being doesn't begin and end with the ears or what's on them. The child's well being encompasses a whole list of things that parents don't always account for.

:gpost:
 
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