who do you think that really killed Jesus?

[Cheri]

I am afraid no.

Jesus was crucified under Roman authorities, not under relgious leaders's authorities.

Jews insisted what they want to but they can't sentence him to death without the confirmation/permission from Roman authorities.

You don't even understand me. Let me explain this one more time in a different way.

Who arrested Jesus? The servants of Jewish Religious Leaders.

Who wanted Jesus crucified? The Jewish Religious Leaders, and the accusers of Jews.

Who said that Jesus broke the temple laws? The Jewish Religious Leaders.

Who convinced the people that Jesus was a blasphemer and that He deserved death? The Jewish Religious Leaders

Who tried to release Jesus after He got whipped by the Roman's servants? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who had the power over life and death? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who found no faults in Jesus? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who was convinced of Jesus’s innocence? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who kept the Jewish Religious leaders happy, and to prevent a dangerous rebellion? Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who gave the Jewish Relgious Leaders and the people their wishes to crucified Jesus? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

I rest my case.

 

[Reba]

... I really don't care who made any movies but interest to know what they beleive in when they made the movies of any relgious/bible historicals.

Does that mean you've changed your attitude about Tom Cruise making the movie in Germany? You were against his movie because of his Scientologist beliefs.

 

[Secretblend]

I am afraid no.

Jesus was crucified under Roman authorities, not under relgious leaders's authorities.

Jews insisted what they want to but they can't sentence him to death without the confirmation/permission from Roman authorities.

If Jews killed Jesus which mean is stone him to death accord Jew's law. Crucifixion is not Jew's law but Roman's law.

Pilate thought he is not responsible for Jesus's death but he does because he gave relgious leaders his permission to do what they want with Jesus. If he don't want to be part of his responsible for Jesus's death then he would say NO to relgious leaders and the crowd.

Relgious leader gave Judas money to find Jesus. Relgious leader send Roman soliders to find and arrest Jesus and then brought Jesus to Reglious leaders for questions. Therefore Judas didn't know that Relgious leaders handed Jesus to Roman authorities for their permission to sentence him to death. Judas was very regretted and end his life himself.

Yes that right, Jesus was being caused by Relgious leaders for
committing blasphemy but they don't killed him without Roman authorities's permission because they are not allowed to.

Yes, that's right Pilate was coward and ended his life because he KNEW he was reponsibile for Jesus's death because he is the one who gave his permission.

Liebling, For the first time you have stated things that I agree with.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You don't even understand me. Let me explain this one more time in a different way.

You said the same thing what I said many times in my previous posts. *shrug*

I can see that you confirmed my point at last...

Who arrested Jesus? The servants of Jewish Religious Leaders.

Relgious Leaders sent Roman soliders to arrest Jesus.

Who wanted Jesus crucified? The Jewish Religious Leaders, and the accusers of Jews.

Who said that Jesus broke the temple laws? The Jewish Religious Leaders.

Who convinced the people that Jesus was a blasphemer and that He deserved death? The Jewish Religious Leaders

Who tried to release Jesus after He got whipped by the Roman's servants? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Yes, I know. I already stated in my posts MANY times.

Who had the power over life and death? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Yes, Pilate is a Roman governor under Roman authorities.

Who found no faults in Jesus? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who was convinced of Jesus’s innocence? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Again, Yes, I know. I already stated in my posts MANY times.

Who kept the Jewish Religious leaders happy, and to prevent a dangerous rebellion? Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who gave the Jewish Relgious Leaders and the people their wishes to crucified Jesus? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Yes, Pilate gave relgious leaders the permission to do what they want with Jesus.

I rest my case.

we said the same thing... I feel that you missed my many posts.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling, For the first time you have stated things that I agree with.

I did said many times... for convince my post at last!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Secretblend]

What seems to be the case Liebling is that you may have been wording things in a way that we thought you were saying the opposite when in fact we were thinking the same way.

 

[Cheri]

You said the same thing what I said many times in my previous posts. *shrug*

Then why did you misunderstood my post? My post has never been changed, You just did not understood me.

Relgious Leaders sent Roman soliders to arrest Jesus.

Nope, Jesus was arrested in the middle of the night, Mary informed the Roman soldiers that Jesus was arrested secretly in the middle of the night, and the one of the Roman solider went and informed the The Roman Leader Pontius Pilate. Jesus was brought over to the Roman Leaders by the Jewish Religious Leaders's servants in the morning.

I feel that you missed my many posts.

Not really, You stated differently than what you stated today.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Does that mean you've changed your attitude about Tom Cruise making the movie in Germany? You were against his movie because of his Scientologist beliefs.

I really don't care because I don't mind to watch any relgious movies which we talked about Jesus in any movies. I don't mind if Scientologist made the movie about Jesus. I am curious what they beleive in...

I do not see anything in your thread that Tom Cruise played as Jesus in Germany? Can you provided me link where Tom Cruise play as Jesus accord bible historical movie in Germany? I am interesting to view what Scientology make the movie about Jesus to compare with any beliefs. I only know that Tom Cruise was being banned to use Government's property as play as Count Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg, not Jesus as bible historical in Germany.

I thought you know that Scientology is a cult, not relgious.

 

[Reba]

Some Jews do not like to hear those word "Jesus killed by Jews" because they were being suffered to listen those word "Christ killers" that's because relgious leaders were Jewish.

I've never used those phrases.

I thought to use those word "Roman's relgious leaders as general.

But to be historically accurate, we can't use "general" terms; we have to be specific or else we aren't accurate. We can't change history to fit our sensibilities.

I did not name you but stated "some of you accused Jews for killed Jesus".

If you stated, "some of you", then that does include me.

I do feel it's "race" when someone point "jew" who killed Jesus which I rather to not use those but authorities in general way... If relgious leaders living under Roman's authorities then is Roman authorities.

Well, the Jews were included, not excluded, from those who condemned Jesus. Why deny that? The religious leaders lived under the political control of the Romans but that didn't change them from Jew to Roman. They were Jews who led Jewish congregations in Jewish worship of a Jewish religion. That would make them Jewish religious leaders, NOT Roman. There is no way around that.

Example: US soliders have different races - I would consider them as US Army instead of see their races. US Army were killed by Iraq's authorities or Iranien were killed by US authorities ...... instead of see what/where they come from. I hope you understand my point what I am trying to explain.

I'm trying to understand but I don't think your comparisons are equivalent. The USA Army is made up of men and women of various races, yes, but they are still all Americans. The Roman Empire was made up of people of various races and nationalities but most of them never became Romans. Just living inside Roman Empire's borders under Roman control didn't make someone a Roman. Just like the French living under German control during WWII. The French people lived under German control but they didn't become Germans.

BTW, Americans haven't killed any Iranians; we aren't at war with them.

Okay, I only stated that "some of you" instead of accuse you for blame Jews but stated my view and feeling why I do not feel like to blame jews for killed Jesus because they were under Roman authorities that's time.

Stating historical facts is not the same as "blaming".

 

[Reba]

...I do not see anything in your thread that Tom Cruise played as Jesus in Germany? Can you provided me link where Tom Cruise play as Jesus accord bible historical movie in Germany? I am interesting to view what Scientology make the movie about Jesus to compare with any beliefs. I only know that Tom Cruise was being banned to use Government's property as play as Count Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg, not Jesus as bible historical in Germany.

The movie wasn't about Jesus. The point is, a person's religious beliefs shouldn't prevent him making a historical movie, right? And yet, you were against Tom Cruise making his movie about a German historical event just because he is a Scientologist. Isn't that hypocritical?

I thought you know that Scientology is a cult, not relgious.

It doesn't matter what you or I believe about Scientology. You said that a movie maker's religious beliefs shouldn't make a difference. Fair is fair.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Then why did you misunderstood my post? My post has never been changed, You just did not understood me.

You accused me for misunderstand your posts and then think I can't read your post when I stated very same as you... You don't know what you are saying to me here. All what I said is go and re-read my previous posts here and also my thread Reigous vs God.

Nope, Jesus was arrested in the middle of the night, Mary informed the Roman soldiers that Jesus was arrested secretly in the middle of the night, and the one of the Roman solider went and informed the The Roman Leader Pontius Pilate. Jesus was brought over to the Roman Leaders by the Jewish Religious Leaders's servants in the morning.

Never mind, Secretblend confirmed and convince my point.

Not really, You stated differently than what you stated today.

No, I stated the same... Did you read my quote post toward Reba's post #45 and #46 to my post #59 and #60. Maybe you missed my posts ?

 

[Reba]

Exactly what I questioned you about since you mentioned "political correctness".

Its about cultural historical - should we put what kind of race we have on the information? Is it discriminalistion or not?

I still don't understand how your race has anything to do with historical accuracy.

Race and ethnicity is an important factor in history. We can't pretend otherwise.

The reason I asked you because some ADers in other thread felt being offended when they saw the information which race they have and think it's not okay until the thread here...

What does the race of individual ADers have to do with history?

I was confused between other thread and the thread here that it's okay for ADers to name Jewish and said it's not problem to point which race they have here because of fact but they offended at other thread... This is a confusion.

I'm sorry that you're confused.

 

[Cheri]

You accused me for misunderstand your posts and then think I can't read your post when I stated very same as you... You don't know what you are saying to me here. All what I said is go and re-read my previous posts here and also my thread Reigous vs God.

Then explain this

I am afraid no.

sounds like you disagree with my post.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

The movie wasn't about Jesus. The point is, a person's religious beliefs shouldn't prevent him making a historical movie, right? And yet, you were against Tom Cruise making his movie about a German historical event just because he is a Scientologist. Isn't that hypocritical?



It doesn't matter what you or I believe about Scientology. You said that a movie maker's religious beliefs shouldn't make a difference. Fair is fair.

It's hypocritate of you brought this :topic: subject over Scientology which has nothing do with relgious here when you personally disagree with Scientology and want the people get away from Scientology at your thread. Why brought this subject over here when you know that Scientology is a commerical cult? *scratch my head* Anyway, Count Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg is not belongs bible/reglious historical. Please post your own thread, not here. We are here to talk about ANY Jesus movies which belongs to bible/relgious historical here.

I do not against Tom Cruise personally but I respect and agreed with Government for reject Tom Cruise to use Government's property. Tom Cruise can film anywhere in Germany, not use Government's property.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Then explain this sounds like you disagree with my post.

Because you said that Relgious leaders are the responsiblity for sentence Jesus to death which I disagreed to and explained that Jesus was crucified by Roman authorities, not relgious leaders's authorities.

Relgious leaders were not allowed to kill Jesus without Roman authorities (Roman politial/govenor etc) permission. Relgious leaders do anything powerful to get Roman authorities to agree with them for sentence Jesus to death until Piliate gave Relgious leaders his permission to do what they want with Jesus................

I said that Roman authorities were responsible for Jesus's death because Pilate gave Relgious leaders his permission.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I still don't understand how your race has anything to do with historical accuracy.

Race and ethnicity is an important factor in history. We can't pretend otherwise.



What does the race of individual ADers have to do with history?



I'm sorry that you're confused.

I can see that you missed other thread. Some ADers felt being discrimination over which kind of race when they fill out the job application or whatever...

The fact is Jesus killed by Roman authorities, no matter where they come from.

 

[Reba]

...Due with respect, I prefer to not name which race religious leaders have but Roman's religious leaders or Religious leaders who work for Roman authorities. (I should say in my early post "Roman's relgious leaders").

The religious leaders were Jewish scribes, pharisees, high priests and elders. There were no Romans in that group. So why should anyone call them "Roman"? The Romans were political and military leaders; they were governors and soldiers. They were not religious leaders of the Jewish population.

Just because you "prefer" not to name them correctly doesn't change the facts.

for confirmed my point about Jesus who was being accused for commit blasphemy by Relgious leaders in my previous posts.

Yes, the Jewish religious leaders.

Jewish laws on capital trials are found in texts almost two centuries
after the death of Jesus (M. Sanh. 4-11), so it is not known whether
they reflect first-century practice. By these norms the trial in Mark
is not legal, since according to the Mishnah capital trials could not
be held at night or on the eve of a Sabbath or feast day (M. Sanh.
4:1). The sentence of death could not be pronounced on the same day as
the trial (M. Sanh. 4:1); prior examination of witnesses, as well as
independent agreement of their testimony, was required (M. Sanh. 4:5;
cf. Deut. 19:15-18); the charge of blasphemy required the explicit
pronouncing of the divine name (M. Sanh. 7:5); and trials were to be
held in the official chamber, not in the house of the high priest (M.
Sanh. 11:2; cf. Mark 14:54). Also uncertain is whether the Sanhedrin
had the power to execute for capital offenses during Roman occupation
(see John 18:31). If so, Jesus should have been stoned, which was the
Jewish penalty for blasphemy.

Question 16.5: Did the Jews kill Jesus?

Point? Did you notice your quotation said, "Jewish laws on capital trials are found in texts almost two centuries after the death of Jesus (M. Sanh. 4-11), so it is not known whether they reflect first-century practice."? So, first of all, this is speculation. Secondly, who ever said that the leaders did everything on the up and up? Sneaky people with an agenda often do their work in the dark, and quickly, before they are stopped.

...It could be not possible that jewish are responsiblilty for Jesus's death because there're no Jewish law at Roman time.

Everyone was responsible. The Romans wouldn't have been able to crucify Jesus if the Jewish priests didn't deliver Him to them in the first place. But beyond that, Jesus wouldn't need to die for us if Adam and Eve had obeyed God. So the whole "blame game" is a waste of time.

 

[Cheri]

Because you said that Relgious leaders are the responsiblity for sentence Jesus to death which I disagreed to and explained that Jesus was crucified by Roman authorities, not relgious leaders's authorities.

No, I did not. Where on my post did I mention "death"? I said that Jewish Religion Leaders were primarily responsible for Christ’s crucifixion which meaning, They wanted him crucified from the get and go. I did not mention with the Religion Leader's authorities either.

 

[Reba]

It's hypocritate of you brought this :topic: subject over Scientology which has nothing do with relgious here when you personally disagree with Scientology and want the people get away from Scientology at your thread. Why brought this subject over here when you know that Scientology is a commerical cult? *scratch my head* Anyway, Count Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg is not belongs bible/reglious historical. Please post your own thread, not here. We are here to talk about ANY Jesus movies which belongs to bible/relgious historical here.

If you can make a point about Catholics making movies, then I can make a point about Scientologists making movies. The overall point is, the movie makers' religion (or lack of religion) should either be relevant for all movies, or not relevant for any, if you are being fair.

If you believe that The Passion of Christ should be judged only on its merits and not on who made it, then you should have the same belief about movies that are made by Scientologists. Otherwise, your opinion about The Passion is not fair.

I also find it interesting that you are sensitive to historical accuracy when it comes to a German historic figure and events but not when it applies to biblical historic figures and events.

 

[jazzy]

No! You started it and you should finish it, beside I searched through-out my whole posts and have not found of what you stated.
Then you should read those posts once again, better let me quote each one of those posts.

Cheri, I do not owe u an apology for lying to u which u accused me but I do owe u an apology for misunderstood u when u made a comment on this since so many christians have hurt me for long time. Now go ahead accuse of me to lock up this religious as for I do not care because I am so tired of people come here on Ad and say bad thing about my belief. Is this what this all about to get along and to work out or conitune to battle against. since many people here on Ad are annti-catholic and talk sh*^ about it all the time. I am so getting fed up with this. allright. I am leaving this ad since so u can have all your own posts to yourself and keep going on to trash other people's faith. sd for I do not care.