why ASL cannot credit as a foreign language?

[Interpretrator]

Sorry, I am not going to learn Spanish in my own damn country when the language is English.

Just so you know, English is not the official language of the United States. There is no official language in the United States, as opposed to many other countries.

 

[gnulinuxman]

I think the problem is that a lot of people view ASL as a constructed language (one made by scientists and/or linguists rather than developed the way natural languages are). Or they think language has to involve the tongue and vocal chords. Ah well... I wish my high school offered ASL as a language choice, but then I might not have learned Spanish too--I might only be bilingual instead of trilingual.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Just so you know, English is not the official language of the United States. There is no official language in the United States, as opposed to many other countries.

English IS the official language of the USA.

 

[Reba]

English IS the official language of the USA.

Afraid not. Not yet, anyway. There has been legislation suggested to make English the official language of the USA but it hasn't yet happened.

 

[Interpretrator]

More details:

Constitutional Topic: Official Language - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Languages of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Southern]

Sorry gnulinuxman Interpretrator and Reba are correct English isn't our official language. Since before there was a United States there have been hundreds of languages here, Native American sign language being one of them. And since the early 1800's Spanish has been part of our country once the US aquired FL. the other prominante language in our country is French, or more acurrately Creol. We have never had an official language, Engish is the common language. There are some states that have made it their offical language but on the federal level as a matter of law it is not the official one.

 

[eliotj]

English IS the official language of the USA.

the US has no official language at the federal level.

Some states have begun to move this direction but as for the US as a whole, there is no official language.

 

[eliotj]

I think the problem is that a lot of people view ASL as a constructed language (one made by scientists and/or linguists rather than developed the way natural languages are). Or they think language has to involve the tongue and vocal chords. Ah well... I wish my high school offered ASL as a language choice, but then I might not have learned Spanish too--I might only be bilingual instead of trilingual.

IT is too sad that many people do not see sign language as a language.

In the school district where I work, many don't even know that every country has its own sign language.

Thanks to forums like this one and Deaf communities - this is changing.
More and more colleges are now offering ASL

 

[armymech81]

IT is too sad that many people do not see sign language as a language.

In the school district where I work, many don't even know that every country has its own sign language.

Thanks to forums like this one and Deaf communities - this is changing.
More and more colleges are now offering ASL

It is not even school districts, I have had hundreds of people that thought that sign language was a World Sign Language. I have to point out to them that ASL is for america, while Mexico has their own, England has their own and etc. Then I also have to tell them that ASL can be different from one state to the next state too.

 

[Reba]

It is not even school districts, I have had hundreds of people that thought that sign language was a World Sign Language. I have to point out to them that ASL is for america, while Mexico has their own, England has their own and etc. Then I also have to tell them that ASL can be different from one state to the next state too.

Yeah, most hearing people think that sign language is universal.

 

[InTheGenes]

I wonder if contacting some of the organizations that accredit universities/colleges would be worthwhile. You know... instead of fighting this on a local level, perhaps if there were a nationally recognized governing body that said, "If you want to be accredited by our organization, you must meet this standard, along with all the others".

Several years ago, I worked for one such organization in Washington, DC. Here are a few organtions that might be worth contacting?:

Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) at: CHEA Home Page
American Academy for Liberal Education (AALE) at: American Academy for Liberal Education
American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA) at: Academic Program Accreditation

Or... perhaps a pre-existing advocacy group for the Deaf/HoH could establish a new accreditation program?

Just a few ideas. I think it's silly that nationwide, this isn't considered a foreign language. As previous posters have noted, this is typically the case when "those in charge" at a particular university are ignorant of the facts.

In my Deaf Culture and History class this semester, in one of our class sessions, our professor described for us (using Stokoe's model) why ASL was PROVEN to be a language, in it's own right, meeting all 16 criteria. If I can rummage up that handout, I can try to scan it and email it to you, if you'd like.

 

[Reba]

...In my Deaf Culture and History class this semester, in one of our class sessions, our professor described for us (using Stokoe's model) why ASL was PROVEN to be a language, in it's own right, meeting all 16 criteria. ...

Yes, ASL is a language. Is it a foreign language? And, if it is declared a foreign language, that still doesn't guarantee it will be taught in all colleges. There are no colleges that teach all foreign languages. Suppose a college agrees that ASL is a language but that the college doesn't need another language added to its course selections. Then what?

Also, should ASL be taught at colleges to satisfy foreign language requirements, or to satisfy ADA requirements? Those are two totally separate issues.

Just wondering.

 

[InTheGenes]

Yes, ASL is a language. Is it a foreign language? And, if it is declared a foreign language, that still doesn't guarantee it will be taught in all colleges. There are no colleges that teach all foreign languages. Suppose a college agrees that ASL is a language but that the college doesn't need another language added to its course selections. Then what?

Also, should ASL be taught at colleges to satisfy foreign language requirements, or to satisfy ADA requirements? Those are two totally separate issues.

I see the point you're making, Reba. But I think that A) the challenge for some of these colleges/universities is to get them to see that ASL is, in fact, a language, and B) schools that already offer ASL as part of its language curriculum need "help" in understanding that it does belong in the Foreign Language department. At least, that's how I read the argument (to which I also subscribe) being espoused by some posters.

As you likely already know, this debate in semantics becomes important for some high schools and post-secondary schools when you start looking at foreign language requirements needed to graduate. If schools would accept ASL as a foreign (ie., non-native to the majority of that school's/community's population) language, this would help meet those requirements.

Ultimately, it would be nice if there were consistency nationwide, which is why I suggested "attacking" this on a national level, rather than a regional one.

 

[eliotj]

The term "FOREIGN LANGUAGE" itself needs to be defined.

Is Spanish a foreign language? Absolutely not. Unless you consider that our largest minority, native spanish speakers, aren't here - and they are.

If you forget that we have more native spanish speakers than South American.

If you fail to realize we have 1/3 as many native spanish speakers as the entire country of Mexico.

ASL, in my opinion, isn't a FOREIGN language, it is a language deserving of credits in a college.

Locally, it's offered as a language to fulfill the requirements in leu of spanish or french.
It's also offered at the high school level in the same capacity.

 

[Brian]

There was an article in the yesterday's USAToday newspaper: English as official language gains support at local levels - USATODAY.com (if interested, you can still get the yesterday's newspaper almost everywhere - they will be gone by Monday morning or so.)

Here is the map of the United States where you can see which states regonise English as the official language: ProEnglish: Official Language

 

[Interpretrator]

The term "FOREIGN LANGUAGE" itself needs to be defined.

Yes, it's a problematic term, but I believe it's supposed to mean "foreign to those who are taking it" or even "foreign compared with the language of instruction," not "foreign to the U.S." Both of those cover why native Spanish speakers can't get credit for taking Spanish 1, and why native speakers of other languages can't take English as a foreign language (because it is the language of instruction in most U.S. educational institutions).

 

[Sincereheart]

ASL counted as a foreign language at my college. I'm learning ASL and I'm loving it so far.

 

[VamPyroX]

I guess it would depend on the school you're going to. I would suggest that you go to a student government meeting and bring that subject up with a formal presentation or good argument.

 

[eliotj]

Yes, it's a problematic term, but I believe it's supposed to mean "foreign to those who are taking it" or even "foreign compared with the language of instruction," not "foreign to the U.S." Both of those cover why native Spanish speakers can't get credit for taking Spanish 1, and why native speakers of other languages can't take English as a foreign language (because it is the language of instruction in most U.S. educational institutions).

HEre, we have many many people that take english - not as a foreign language but as a SECOND language. Hence the term ESL, English as a Second LAnguage.

Though I think you're probably right.

There seem to to be a lot of things wrong with the way in which we view languages.
The more languages I learn, the more I'm able to communicate in any of them because I have a better understanding of language itself independant of one particular language.

Anglos don't take "SSL" Spanish as a Second Language, yet here in deep south Texas, the incoming Mexican immigrants take ESL.

Our colleges and some high schools do offer ASL as a language course, but I don't know if the requirements refer to it as a "foreign" language.
Maybe that's just a technicality, but then again technicalities keep murderers out of prisons.

 

[me_punctured]

Yes, it's a problematic term, but I believe it's supposed to mean "foreign to those who are taking it" or even "foreign compared with the language of instruction," not "foreign to the U.S." Both of those cover why native Spanish speakers can't get credit for taking Spanish 1, and why native speakers of other languages can't take English as a foreign language (because it is the language of instruction in most U.S. educational institutions).

You're right. Native Spanish speakers cannot get credit for taking Spanish 1. However, they can get credit for taking Spanish for native speakers if they do not know how to read and write it fluently. My alma mater offered Chinese writing and reading classes for students who already spoke [Mandarin] Chinese fluently. Those classes went all the way up to the third-year university level. One doesn't accumulate that much credit from taking writing and reading classes (roughly about 3 semester credits for each class) though.