So, will the deaf culture be there?

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Banjo said:
faire_jour said:
IT IS NOT DURING ACADEMICS, IT IS A PULL OUT SPEECH THERAPY SESSION. If I was asking for an oral program, I would be wrong.

So, you are saying all AV therapy is cruel? :hmm:
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Why cannot they just go to state-funded AV therapist? Pulling the students out of the classroom while it's in session... that's interfering with the learning environment. I was never a fan of having to leave the classroom for speech therapy.
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My speech therapy in my hometown was an afterschool program.

Never had pullouts until my parents moved up north out in the boonies when stepdad made a careerr advancement choice; mom's still mad at the district for making that choice.
 
souggy said:
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My speech therapy in my hometown was an afterschool program.

Never had pullouts until my parents moved up north out in the boonies when stepdad made a careerr advancement choice; mom's still mad at the district for making that choice.
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That is the way it should be done. After school. After all, it isn't academics. It should be treated as extracurricular.
 
jillio said:
That is the way it should be done. After school. After all, it isn't academics. It should be treated as extracurricular.
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Yeah, it's not as if they give out classroom awards for having the best speech skill.
 
jillio said:
Yep. And then they want to complain that deaf students are not reading above a 4th-5th grade level. What do they expect when it is standard practice to sacrifice academics to speech therapy? It just means that you end up with a kid that can say "undereducated", but can't read.
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Banjo said:
and these sessions often would last 30 to 45 minutes, even an hour at a time... which is somewhat a considerate loss of time when added up over the years.
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Yeah.

Also, It was part of processing into the classrom were often interrupted that messed up my mind. I was confused as to why I had to go to the speech therapy while the classroom were being taught the important part that I had to miss it. I hated it so much! I even cried in front of teachers and kids. :giggle:
 
faire_jour said:
I'll revive this thread in 5 years when 10 more Deaf schools have closed and 20 more have switched to ASL-spoken English through audition Dual Language programs. Then we'll see who is right!
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So u advocate for the idea of shutting down deaf schools and putting productive hard working deaf people out of jobs? Nice
 
jillio said:
Yep. And then they want to complain that deaf students are not reading above a 4th-5th grade level. What do they expect when it is standard practice to sacrifice academics to speech therapy? It just means that you end up with a kid that can say "undereducated", but can't read.
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In my daughter's school, it's called "Communication" and some sessions are devoted to spoken language, some are devoted to ASL instruction. Some schools have penmanship and writing exercises to hone communication skills. I do see the value in formal instruction in how to communicate, as well as in other academic topics.
 
Banjo said:
That's not what I was referring to.
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I was sort of joking, Banjo, but still -- isn't it just like honing your writing and signing skills? And if the child is newly auditory, whether via HAs or CIs, it's sort of like ASL bootcamp, getting you comfortable with the basics (handshapes or alphabet) so you can use the language to express yourself.
 
jillio said:
Pull out, schmull out. Still provided through the bi-bi program. The entire school operates under the same philosophy.:roll:

It is the same thing as demanding the Catholic Church, for example, abandon confession. Don't want to participate in confession, go to another denomination. Don't demand that an entire organization alter it's basic philosophy just because you don't agree with it.
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Well, the oral school was willing to allow sign and pull out ASL services, so who is ANTI-the other side and insulated and who is willing to do whatever it takes to meet the needs of the kids? :hmm:
 
jillio said:
I say the methods employed in ATV are cruel, yes. They impede the ability to comprehend fully, and thus are damaging in a number of ways educationally, socially, and psychologically. My opinion.
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And what about the kids who CAN comprehend?
 
jillo, I am not a fan of AVT myself. The whole exclusive focusing on listening and learning how to go boo be bah really well, is too ....I mean it doesn't even include SPEECHREADING!!!! (and that is FUCKED UP)
It seems too much like a speech therapy version of those "cram schools" in Korea and Japan, that inspired Kumon and those other programs.
That said, I do think that oral training can be a part of a bi-bi program.
Grendel..that sounds really cool!! It sounds more like LEARNING ...like the way you would learn how to speak French in a French class, rather then an speech therapy session.
 
deafdyke said:
jillo, I am not a fan of AVT myself. The whole exclusive focusing on listening and learning how to go boo be bah really well, is too ....I mean it doesn't even include SPEECHREADING!!!! (and that is FUCKED UP)
It seems too much like a speech therapy version of those "cram schools" in Korea and Japan, that inspired Kumon and those other programs.
That said, I do think that oral training can be a part of a bi-bi program.
Grendel..that sounds really cool!! It sounds more like LEARNING ...like the way you would learn how to speak French in a French class, rather then an speech therapy session.
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AV does NOT do "boo bah bee". The philosophy specifically teaches thaat you do not teach sound without meaning, it is always language focused.
 
faire_jour said:
That is speech therapy, working on pitch, duration and intensity.
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yes, and it is usually part of AVT/oral school

btw, my speech therapy worked with phonics so I can speak it correctly and it is part of spoken words. My son is recieving the same type of therapy as I did.
 
First of all, if speech (and language) therapy is indicated on the IEP, then pull-outs are required. I mean, the IEP is a CONTRACT between the participants on the IEP team. If the parents and/or the student don't want the pull-outs, just take off speech (and/or) language therapy.

I'm not an SLP, but from what I've seen, speech therapy consists of 30 minutes per week on a pull-out basis. In Deaf-center schools, the SLP goes into the self-contained classroom. Language therapy runs for another 30 minutes per week. So, if a student has speech/language therapy, that's 1 hour per week on a pull-out basis.

The Deaf/HH student still has roughly 24 hours per week in his/her educational environment. The benefits accorded to speech and language therapy outweighs the risks of pull-outs, IMO, as the student still has full benefits of his/her eductional environment. Still, the parents and the IEP team need to decide on such services on an individualized basis.

I'm just curious; several commentators talked about being pulled out of class for such services. How did you feel about the pull-outs? Were they helpful? Beneficial? When did you first start to 'dislike' pull-outs? In middle school? High school? I've noticed that Deaf/HH students in elementary and middle schools are amenable to educational services on a pull-out basis, but not high school students.

Maybe the stakes and the dynamics in high schools are so much different for Deaf/HH students, and educational pull-out services should be viewed in this light.
 
Most of us stop having speech therapy around high school. I stopped in 7th grade (there was not much more they could do. My speech is kinda permanent, I guess. I did ask for another later in high school, but she act like there is not much for her to do for me... she kinda act bored or something) . But I do remember being pulled out.. I just don't remember how often. And I remember not liking the pull out speech therapy, and I think I rather if I stayed after school or go early in the morning. I doubt it will happen because speech therapists don't want to work late or early for everyone anyway. 9-5pm is what they prefer.
 
deafgal001 said:
yes, and it is usually part of AVT/oral school

btw, my speech therapy worked with phonics so I can speak it correctly and it is part of spoken words. My son is recieving the same type of therapy as I did.
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Speech therapy is different than AV therapy.
 
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