So, will the deaf culture be there?

[deafgal001]

We had a long discussion about it. Look up the STAR results for CSD. Both schools were doing poorly. 85% isn't a isolated problem, it is systemic failure.

CSD is a good school. Both schools are.

 

[GrendelQ]

Achievement Gap for the Deaf - State of Education (CA Dept of Education)

That conclusion made is one very good reason why, not coming from a household that has been fluent in ASL for generations, much less one generation, for my family, it was critical that my daughter be raised with both ASL and spoken English accessed via CIs. We want her to have full access to language: including exposure to fully developed literacy and fluency in the home and in her community as well as in her schools.

If we had chosen not to implant, she would be living in a home without a sophisticated or even adequate level of vocabulary and input as we were learning basic ASL alongside her, with language gaps all around her, given that family, friends, and neighbors did not immediately begin ASL classes. If we had opted for just spoken language, we would have significantly extended an already too-long period without full language input during a very critical developmental period, and we would not have provided her with a very powerful means of communicating not only with other deaf friends and teachers, but with her family as an alternative to spoken language or when her CIs are not on, which, when you tally up bath time, swimming time, bed time, etc, is pretty significant.

If I were from a Deaf family and environment, or had no access to the ASL resources I have in my location, our decisions may have taken us in other directions. But that's not the case, literacy is critical to us, and I've read the various reports we've all seen, including Gallaudet's literacy evaluation giving 17-18 YO deaf students a median score at the level of a typical hearing 4th grader (that is, half of those 17-18 YOs scored lower than the typical hearing 4th graders, half scored higher). Which is pretty damning. I want my daughter to have the opportunity to read and write at the same level of a typical hearing child her age.

But I'm from a hearing family in which building our daughter's vocabulary and love for literature requires us as parents to be able to make the distinctions between filly, colt, stallion, mare; sea spray, seafoam, waves, shoals; grains of sand, dunes, beach, etc. (we're currently reading the Misty of Chincoteague books to the wee one) -- I simply don't have the vocabulary in ASL yet to do that, my level of horse and beach and ocean are fine for the board books, which we can read in ASL, (although my ASL instructor gave up on finding a sign for Armadillo for one of Li's favorites from last year, so that one is "lost" . I rely heavily on her school to provide the sophisticated ASL vocabulary I lack.

Closing the achievement gap takes a lot more than just getting new smart white boards into the rooms (which are very cool, by the way, I've played with those a bit).

 

[loml]

That conclusion made is one very good reason why, not coming from a household that has been fluent in ASL for generations, much less one generation, for my family, it was critical that my daughter be raised with both ASL and spoken English accessed via CIs. We want her to have full access to language: including exposure to fully developed literacy and fluency in the home and in her community as well as in her schools.

If we had chosen not to implant, she would be living in a home without a sophisticated or even adequate level of vocabulary and input as we were learning basic ASL alongside her, with language gaps all around her, given that family, friends, and neighbors did not immediately begin ASL classes. If we had opted for just spoken language, we would have significantly extended an already too-long period without full language input during a very critical developmental period, and we would not have provided her with a very powerful means of communicating not only with other deaf friends and teachers, but with her family as an alternative to spoken language or when her CIs are not on, which, when you tally up bath time, swimming time, bed time, etc, is pretty significant.

If I were from a Deaf family and environment, or had no access to the ASL resources I have in my location, our decisions may have taken us in other directions. But that's not the case, literacy is critical to us, and I've read the various reports we've all seen, including Gallaudet's literacy evaluation giving 17-18 YO deaf students a median score at the level of a typical hearing 4th grader (that is, half of those 17-18 YOs scored lower than the typical hearing 4th graders, half scored higher). Which is pretty damning. I want my daughter to have the opportunity to read and write at the same level of a typical hearing child her age.

But I'm from a hearing family in which building our daughter's vocabulary and love for literature requires us as parents to be able to make the distinctions between filly, colt, stallion, mare; sea spray, seafoam, waves, shoals; grains of sand, dunes, beach, etc. (we're currently reading the Misty of Chincoteague books to the wee one) -- I simply don't have the vocabulary in ASL yet to do that, my level of horse and beach and ocean are fine for the board books, which we can read in ASL, (although my ASL instructor gave up on finding a sign for Armadillo for one of Li's favorites from last year, so that one is "lost" . I rely heavily on her school to provide the sophisticated ASL vocabulary I lack.

Closing the achievement gap takes a lot more than just getting new smart white boards into the rooms (which are very cool, by the way, I've played with those a bit).

Excellent post!

 

[deafgal001]

.

I don't expect CI will improve literacy skills in a few years from now. I think it will still be in the same stubborn level. The only way is parental involvement, especially if the child don't like to read. As always. We'll see.

 

[faire_jour]

That conclusion made is one very good reason why, not coming from a household that has been fluent in ASL for generations, much less one generation, for my family, it was critical that my daughter be raised with both ASL and spoken English accessed via CIs. We want her to have full access to language: including exposure to fully developed literacy and fluency in the home and in her community as well as in her schools.

If we had chosen not to implant, she would be living in a home without a sophisticated or even adequate level of vocabulary and input as we were learning basic ASL alongside her, with language gaps all around her, given that family, friends, and neighbors did not immediately begin ASL classes. If we had opted for just spoken language, we would have significantly extended an already too-long period without full language input during a very critical developmental period, and we would not have provided her with a very powerful means of communicating not only with other deaf friends and teachers, but with her family as an alternative to spoken language or when her CIs are not on, which, when you tally up bath time, swimming time, bed time, etc, is pretty significant.

If I were from a Deaf family and environment, or had no access to the ASL resources I have in my location, our decisions may have taken us in other directions. But that's not the case, literacy is critical to us, and I've read the various reports we've all seen, including Gallaudet's literacy evaluation giving 17-18 YO deaf students a median score at the level of a typical hearing 4th grader (that is, half of those 17-18 YOs scored lower than the typical hearing 4th graders, half scored higher). Which is pretty damning. I want my daughter to have the opportunity to read and write at the same level of a typical hearing child her age.

But I'm from a hearing family in which building our daughter's vocabulary and love for literature requires us as parents to be able to make the distinctions between filly, colt, stallion, mare; sea spray, seafoam, waves, shoals; grains of sand, dunes, beach, etc. (we're currently reading the Misty of Chincoteague books to the wee one) -- I simply don't have the vocabulary in ASL yet to do that, my level of horse and beach and ocean are fine for the board books, which we can read in ASL, (although my ASL instructor gave up on finding a sign for Armadillo for one of Li's favorites from last year, so that one is "lost" . I rely heavily on her school to provide the sophisticated ASL vocabulary I lack.

Closing the achievement gap takes a lot more than just getting new smart white boards into the rooms (which are very cool, by the way, I've played with those a bit).

Exactly!

Even a family working HARD to learn ASL will take many years to be able to model even accurate ASL, much less fluent, expressive, varied language using it. The key is having a SHARED language with which you can communicate. One in which games can be played and information, thoughts and feeling can be shared, along with modeling of WHOLE, fluent, expressive, varied vocabulary can be used. How can that happen in a language the parents have never seen or used before? I'm not saying this for parents, but for the children! They deserve to have rich full language, that is the onky way they can learn it, through seeing it used everyday, and how can that happen when the parents can't use it?

 

[deafgal001]

Exactly!

Even a family working HARD to learn ASL will take many years to be able to model even accurate ASL, much less fluent, expressive, varied language using it. The key is having a SHARED language with which you can communicate. One in which games can be played and information, thoughts and feeling can be shared, along with modeling of WHOLE, fluent, expressive, varied vocabulary can be used. How can that happen in a language the parents have never seen or used before? I'm not saying this for parents, but for the children! They deserve to have rich full language, that is the onky way they can learn it, through seeing it used everyday, and how can that happen when the parents can't use it?

My mom probably thought the same way, which is why she didn't learn ASL and focus on speech and hearing with hearing aids. .... which I personally think it failed big time. Not always able to pick up words is like listening to someone who isn't fluent in a language. At least one language is more accessible than the other.

 

[posts from hell]

Yeah, I've seen that before. It's an old one. Here's a more recent one called "Crayon Physics." It's addictive!

YouTube - Crayon Physics Deluxe

Thank you. It's addictive - Great. That's what the kids need. Things to simulate them and draw them in while educating them.

That's exactly what CSDB will be doing.

 

[posts from hell]

We had a long discussion about it. Look up the STAR results for CSD. Both schools were doing poorly. 85% isn't a isolated problem, it is systemic failure.

Like we have told you... there ARE reasons for that. But you're not listening and choose to take it at a face value.

 

[posts from hell]

That conclusion made is one very good reason why, not coming from a household that has been fluent in ASL for generations, much less one generation, for my family, it was critical that my daughter be raised with both ASL and spoken English accessed via CIs. We want her to have full access to language: including exposure to fully developed literacy and fluency in the home and in her community as well as in her schools.

If we had chosen not to implant, she would be living in a home without a sophisticated or even adequate level of vocabulary and input as we were learning basic ASL alongside her, with language gaps all around her, given that family, friends, and neighbors did not immediately begin ASL classes. If we had opted for just spoken language, we would have significantly extended an already too-long period without full language input during a very critical developmental period, and we would not have provided her with a very powerful means of communicating not only with other deaf friends and teachers, but with her family as an alternative to spoken language or when her CIs are not on, which, when you tally up bath time, swimming time, bed time, etc, is pretty significant.

If I were from a Deaf family and environment, or had no access to the ASL resources I have in my location, our decisions may have taken us in other directions. But that's not the case, literacy is critical to us, and I've read the various reports we've all seen, including Gallaudet's literacy evaluation giving 17-18 YO deaf students a median score at the level of a typical hearing 4th grader (that is, half of those 17-18 YOs scored lower than the typical hearing 4th graders, half scored higher). Which is pretty damning. I want my daughter to have the opportunity to read and write at the same level of a typical hearing child her age.

But I'm from a hearing family in which building our daughter's vocabulary and love for literature requires us as parents to be able to make the distinctions between filly, colt, stallion, mare; sea spray, seafoam, waves, shoals; grains of sand, dunes, beach, etc. (we're currently reading the Misty of Chincoteague books to the wee one) -- I simply don't have the vocabulary in ASL yet to do that, my level of horse and beach and ocean are fine for the board books, which we can read in ASL, (although my ASL instructor gave up on finding a sign for Armadillo for one of Li's favorites from last year, so that one is "lost" . I rely heavily on her school to provide the sophisticated ASL vocabulary I lack.

Closing the achievement gap takes a lot more than just getting new smart white boards into the rooms (which are very cool, by the way, I've played with those a bit).

So basically you're discounting both yourself and myself.

My reason is: My mom is a hippie mom, stoner to the heart, born in hearing family. My real dad left us when I was 2. My mom was able to learn sign language despite knowing nobody. She went the library, and didn't use some stats that are skewed to sell more CI's because they didn't exist at the time.

To top it all off, I went to a deaf school. I actually spent 72 days in school dentition one year. I mean... I should be fully blown retard by what some people are saying in here about how to raise a kid.

My English is decent if I am allowed to think so.

CI's aren't necessary for awesomeness. Just sayin'

 

[GrendelQ]

Exactly!

Even a family working HARD to learn ASL will take many years to be able to model even accurate ASL, much less fluent, expressive, varied language using it. The key is having a SHARED language with which you can communicate. One in which games can be played and information, thoughts and feeling can be shared, along with modeling of WHOLE, fluent, expressive, varied vocabulary can be used. How can that happen in a language the parents have never seen or used before? I'm not saying this for parents, but for the children! They deserve to have rich full language, that is the onky way they can learn it, through seeing it used everyday, and how can that happen when the parents can't use it?

Yes! You said it far more effectively there, FJ !

Of course I'm taking classes and trying to learn, but those of you who are fluent need to give yourselves some credit: you worked hard and it has taken a whole lot of time to be as fluent and expressive as you are. Words that are common in reading to children -- like aardvark and bagel are not often provided in the first few levels of ASL, and so much is finger-spelled, which toddlers can't read!

 

[posts from hell]

Exactly!

Even a family working HARD to learn ASL will take many years to be able to model even accurate ASL, much less fluent, expressive, varied language using it. The key is having a SHARED language with which you can communicate. One in which games can be played and information, thoughts and feeling can be shared, along with modeling of WHOLE, fluent, expressive, varied vocabulary can be used. How can that happen in a language the parents have never seen or used before? I'm not saying this for parents, but for the children! They deserve to have rich full language, that is the onky way they can learn it, through seeing it used everyday, and how can that happen when the parents can't use it?

speaking from actual hard core experience.. my family aint dang near fluent in ASL....

Wow, I went to a deaf school (85% failure rate in English)
Wow, I spent half of a school in suspension (educational delay)
Wow, my family don't speak ASL fluently
Wow, I don't have CI
Wow, I was around drugs my entire life
Wow, I was in a crib laced with lead

I have an IQ of 143. I can figure things out super fast. Explain to me how I got to this point, please.

These who are failures... Well.. I can say there's factors. I don't think it's hearing.

 

[GrendelQ]

So basically you're discounting both yourself and myself.

My reason is: My mom is a hippie mom, stoner to the heart, born in hearing family. My real dad left us when I was 2. My mom was able to learn sign language despite knowing nobody. She went the library, and didn't use some stats that are skewed to sell more CI's because they didn't exist at the time.

To top it all off, I went to a deaf school. I actually spent 72 days in school dentition one year. I mean... I should be fully blown retard by what some people are saying in here about how to raise a kid.

My English is decent if I am allowed to think so.

CI's aren't necessary for awesomeness. Just sayin'

Yes, you are obviously one of those who throws off the curve, PFH ! And I'm not surprised you were a troublemaker in school but I am very encouraged to know that you went to a deaf school and are at the far end of that range of results Your mom seems pretty awesome, too.

I don't mean to discount you or me, but take a look at those results -- both in the link that deafgal posted and the Gallaudet reports, not from CI companies, but from legit institutions without a commercial bias -- it seems clear that a deaf child in a hearing family is at a serious risk, in terms of literacy unless somebody takes serious action. You were at risk, my daughter is at risk. I read a whole lot of posts from people who were at risk. So, both your mom and I have taken some steps that differ from what the majority does.

I wish there were studies that assessed deaf adult literacy against the learning model used as children,also including variables like CIs, HAs, family communication method. It's very tough to weigh the passion with which someone like Shel90 slams her oral education against her obvious high level of literacy. It's almost as if her words argue for an oral education every time she argues against it .

I agree, CIs are definitely not req'd for awesomeness! If my family were fluent in ASL, I'd have little reason to rely on spoken language to build my child's literacy, but as it is, this way, we can provide a fluent language environment in spoken English at home that's completely accessible to her, her school can provide a fluent language environment in ASL that's completely accessible to her. A win-win situation, never without a mans of communicating, and she gets two full languages out of the deal.

 

[Frisky Feline]

speaking from actual hard core experience.. my family aint dang near fluent in ASL....

Wow, I went to a deaf school (85% failure rate in English)
Wow, I spent half of a school in suspension (educational delay)
Wow, my family don't speak ASL fluently
Wow, I don't have CI
Wow, I was around drugs my entire life
Wow, I was in a crib laced with lead

I have an IQ of 143. I can figure things out super fast. Explain to me how I got to this point, please.

These who are failures... Well.. I can say there's factors. I don't think it's hearing.

Ha. In my opinion, is that I grew up with other 3 people who are in the SAME boat, like parents don't speak ASL fluently, same teachers, same everything or many same things. The results were that each of us are not in the same direction based on how much our concepts of understanding differently. Whoever the person who have better capable of understanding that would be more in many different ways. Like you said, theres factor in your brain, not hearing.

 

[GrendelQ]

Explain to me how I got to this point, please.

Well ... you said it: you have a genius level IQ. We're not all so gifted.

 

[posts from hell]

Yes, you are obviously one of those who throws off the curve, PFH ! And I'm not surprised you were a troublemaker in school but I am very encouraged to know that you went to a deaf school and are at the far end of that range of results Your mom seems pretty awesome, too.

I was just showing my mom this thread at the coffee roaster. She said "Yes, I am" in regards of your last sentence, I lol'd. :P

 

[KristinaB]

Yeah, I've seen that before. It's an old one. Here's a more recent one called "Crayon Physics." It's addictive!

YouTube - Crayon Physics Deluxe

This is so addictive. I downloaded the demo and had a blast. I will have to get the full version when I can. Daughter was watching me and was fascinated.

 

[deafgal001]

I think because Shel saw people who signs have the same literacy rate as she.

I still think it is the parents, especially if they know their child don't like to read. They are at risk.

 

[posts from hell]

I wish there were studies that assessed deaf adult literacy against the learning model used as children,also including variables like CIs, HAs, family communication method. It's very tough to weigh the passion with which someone like Shel90 slams her oral education against her obvious high level of literacy. It's almost as if her words argue for an oral education every time she argues against it .

I see where you're coming from. The thing that is "invisible" to the general public is the social aspect of being deaf/strong ASL....

It, honestly, is much easier to be deaf/asl than trying to spend all your time your entire life learning how to speak. (I was in all these speech classes and can speak if i wanted to but have went voice off the past 8 years, so you know)

My BIGGEST argument is this: Go and find me a deaf person that uses CI and is perfectly comfortable in a group setting where everyone is chit chatting. By "perfectly comfortable" I mean equal to their hearing peers, including yourself, bsing around and keeping up, without any delay, without any "work" contributed from the hearing peers there....

2-3 is alright, but more than that, forget about it.

In the deaf world.... You can sign and be actively involved with 20 people at once, NO PROBLEMS. That is where the happiness factor comes in... You are NOT LIMITED.

 

[shel90]

So basically you're discounting both yourself and myself.

My reason is: My mom is a hippie mom, stoner to the heart, born in hearing family. My real dad left us when I was 2. My mom was able to learn sign language despite knowing nobody. She went the library, and didn't use some stats that are skewed to sell more CI's because they didn't exist at the time.

To top it all off, I went to a deaf school. I actually spent 72 days in school dentition one year. I mean... I should be fully blown retard by what some people are saying in here about how to raise a kid.

My English is decent if I am allowed to think so.

CI's aren't necessary for awesomeness. Just sayin'

Same for my brother and I. We didn't have ASL at home. I had almost no access to my environment in the academic setting du to oralism and my brother had ASL at his school. I developed advanced literacy skills due to motivation and my love for reading. My brother didn't have the same passion for reading as I did but he was able to develop fluency in English all because of ASL.

Neither of us have CIs.

We are both freaking awesome considering that the general attitude seems to be for deaf kids to succeed they must have CIs.

 

[posts from hell]

Same for my brother and I. We didn't have ASL at home. I had almost no access to my environment in the academic setting du to oralism and my brother had ASL at his school. I developed advanced literacy skills due to motivation and my love for reading. My brother didn't have the same passion for reading as I did but he was able to develop fluency in English all because of ASL.

Neither of us have CIs.

We are both freaking awesome considering that the general attitude seems to be for deaf kids to succeed they must have CIs.

It all comes down to reading, literally.

Question though, why different schools?