Shooting at U S Capitol

[Jiro]

Yes, they both are related, both of these drivers didn't possess any firearms, yet police open their firearms anyway.

Point here police should return fire when suspect opens the fire first. If suspect has not open fire then there is no reason for police open fire to begin with. Whats conflict between DC cop and Ohio cop is DC police don't get disciplinary action while Ohio police gets disciplinary action. DC police should be receiving disciplinary action regardless. Neither of DC and Ohio suspect open fire at all, not even have firearm at all.

Police have not seen the actual gun, why open fire when they don't see gun in the first place?

Secondly, why discipline one department (Ohio PD) when they thought they saw the gun and let other department DC PD) get away with it when they never thought they saw the gun?

the DC driver had already posed a DEADLY threat to EVERYBODY - public and officers.

you should know that when a driver attempted to ram thru White House security barrier with a vehicle and attempting to run over several police officers.... it's automatically a deadly threat that must be taken down with extreme prejudice.

I have absolutely no problem with DC police's action in this.

 

[Jiro]

DieHardBiker - justified or not?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSQRMGmDzkM]POLICE SHOOTING: BELIEVING IS, SEEING, SOMETIMES IS BELIEVING - YouTube[/ame]

This video is of actual Detectives attempting to stop a CRIMINAL in Chicago.

 

[diehardbiker]

Not justified

DieHardBiker - justified or not?

POLICE SHOOTING: BELIEVING IS, SEEING, SOMETIMES IS BELIEVING - YouTube

 

[diehardbiker]

How can these kind of car get though these security barriers? Even my Super-duty truck won't be able to break these security barriers, 18 wheelers, maybe yes, but not cars. These security barrier were already designed to stop any cars and light trucks from going though, why need to shoot? Shoot and kill the driver only increase the chances of that vehicle becomes unmanned and kill innocent.

the DC driver had already posed a DEADLY threat to EVERYBODY - public and officers.

you should know that when a driver attempted to ram thru White House security barrier with a vehicle and attempting to run over several police officers.... it's automatically a deadly threat that must be taken down with extreme prejudice.

I have absolutely no problem with DC police's action in this.

 

[Jiro]

How can these kind of car get though these security barriers? Even my Super-duty truck won't be able to break these security barriers, 18 wheelers, maybe yes, but not cars. These security barrier were already designed to stop any cars and light trucks from going though, why need to shoot? Shoot and kill the driver only increase the chances of that vehicle becomes unmanned and kill innocent.

it's to stop them... ask any security force around the world...

"do you shoot at people when they try to get thru a security barrier?"

I'll bet you my entire retirement saving, banking account, assets, etc. that they'll say "OF COURSE!"

 

[Jiro]

Not justified

sorry to inform you...

It is important to watch the video first, then read text below.
It's short but you will catch it.

Watch The Video BEFORE You Read the Story! Pay Attention!


This video is of actual Detectives attempting to stop a CRIMINAL in Chicago.
This Video was taken by a Police Officer Videographer who, was also in harm's way.
WATCH the Video First... Two or Three Times if You Want...
(and) THEN Read TheText Below...
DON'T READ UNTIL YOU WATCH THE VIDEO!
You may need to watch this one several times.
Please remember these cops acted in real time....
THIS PERSON DOES GET SHOT BY THE DETECTIVES.
THIS IS FOR REAL. DO NOT scroll down and read until you see this 8 sec. video.

WHAT DID YOU SEE???? Officers ordered the suspect to put the assault rifle down, and that is what he is doing, Right? it appears he is complying and then they shoot him!!!

OMG, he is shot! Is that what you saw? Do you want to know what it is like to work the streets as a cop, and what risks our Officers face daily? Watch the video again... Watch the suspect's right hand while he places the rifle down with his left hand. What you don't see by facing this Criminal face to face, but the Officer behind the suspect does see, is the suspect pulling a hidden handgun from his rear pants, with his right hand. {back-up yells "Gun"
before firing}

Watch as the bad guy goes down..... the handgun is still in his right hand. This is a reminder... What you think you see at does not always tell the truth.

Watch it again, and learn! NOW, pass this on to EVERYONE on your email list, so they can do the same. It's time for Mr. and Mrs. Citizen as well as the Media have a better understanding of why people REALLY get shot and WHY our Officers are always in Jeopardy. Think I would rather try to ride a bull for 8 seconds, how about you?

 

[diehardbiker]

Still not justified, two reasons... There are two officers, one in front and other in back, do you think suspect will risk his life knowing there is cop behind him with loaded gun? Secondly suspect may mistaken reach his handgun only to lay them down. He has not pointed his handgun toward to police officer as of yet.

 

[Jiro]

Still not justified, two reasons... There are two officers, one in front and other in back, do you think suspect will risk his life knowing there is cop behind him with loaded gun?

yup. I'm surprised you're that naive... and you're assuming that the suspect was aware of officer behind him. I don't think he knew.

Secondly suspect may mistaken reach his handgun only to lay them down. He has not pointed his handgun toward to police officer as of yet.

nope. doesn't work like that.

If this happens on your property and you see he's reaching his handgun.... are you going to shoot or are you going to wait if he points a gun at you first?

 

[diehardbiker]

Me naive? I am homeowner and I do not have the luxury of full training with firearms like police officer does. I also do not have the luxury of back ups like Police officer does. Police officer is a professional, homeowner is not a professional. I *EXPECT* police officer have the highest standard of professionalism. What that means is that Police officer would have done better job than homeowner would have done.

Since police officer took the position, they KNEW the risk, they knew they could get shot, since that police officer has the back up, whats their excuse for open fire when the suspect didn't point the gun toward to him yet? If that police officer does not have the back up, then I would agree that this is justifiable.

Police officer has access to top of line training programs with firearms, and they are far better than most of suspects and they should have done better job, guess not. Sad!

yup. I'm surprised you're that naive... and you're assuming that the suspect was aware of officer behind him. I don't think he knew.


nope. doesn't work like that.

If this happens on your property and you see he's reaching his handgun.... are you going to shoot or are you going to wait if he points a gun at you first?

 

[diehardbiker]

With police officer? I don't think they will be honest with you and they would do anything to save their brotherhood's ass.

If you ask the judge of the law, they will tell you whole different perspective.

I'll bet you my entire retirement saving, banking account, assets, etc. that they'll say "OF COURSE!"

 

[Jiro]

With police officer? I don't think they will be honest with you and they would do anything to save their brotherhood's ass.

If you ask the judge of the law, they will tell you whole different perspective.

unfortunately... the judge of the law disagrees with you most of times. that's why DC police officers are not being criminally charged for the incident.

 

[Jiro]

Me naive? I am homeowner and I do not have the luxury of full training with firearms like police officer does. I also do not have the luxury of back ups like Police officer does. Police officer is a professional, homeowner is not a professional. I *EXPECT* police officer have the highest standard of professionalism. What that means is that Police officer would have done better job than homeowner would have done.

uh... in my hypothetical scenario - both of you are in exactly same situation. do you shoot or wait until the suspect points a gun at you? I see that you're avoiding this question. answer my question please.

Since police officer took the position, they KNEW the risk, they knew they could get shot, since that police officer has the back up, whats their excuse for open fire when the suspect didn't point the gun toward to him yet? If that police officer does not have the back up, then I would agree that this is justifiable.

they are not trained to get shot at... Secret Service agents are.

it has always been like this since Day 1 - when a police officer sees a gun, he shoots. simple as that. problem solved. end of discussion. nobody ain't got no problem. everybody knows that you should not put your hand on a gun if somebody's pointing a gun at you. common sense. heck... even armed private citizen knows that.

Police officer has access to top of line training programs with firearms, and they are far better than most of suspects and they should have done better job, guess not. Sad!

yep. naive. and clueless.

police officer does not have an access to top of the line training program with firearms.... only SWAT, specific federal law enforcement agencies, and military do. if police officer wants to take further training.... it's on their dime. ever wonder why most of private firearm training courses offer a discount for military/LEO?

my goodness.... I can't imagine if we taxpayers have to pay for all police officers to take top of the line training programs..... we'd be BROKE long time ago!

 

[diehardbiker]

Police officer don't have access to training? Whats point of having police academy?

I rest my case as I know you very well. hard head and won't end debate so I am ending my debate RIGHT NOW. Have a great day.

 

[Jiro]

Police officer don't have access to training?

yes they do have access to training just like we private citizens do but it's on their own dime.

Whats point of having police academy?

I rest my case as I know you very well. hard head and won't end debate so I am ending my debate RIGHT NOW. Have a great day.

Police Academy is a bare minimum training... not top of the line training. only 3 months of basic training. you know what's it like? just point and shoot... and hope you reach the minimum score to pass.

many police officers especially detectives working in dangerous areas do take further training on their own dime. Sometimes - they do get to train with SWAT or some federal agencies.

 

[CrazyPaul]

it has always been like this since Day 1 - when a police officer sees a gun, he shoots. simple as that. problem solved. end of discussion. nobody ain't got no problem. everybody knows that you should not put your hand on a gun if somebody's pointing a gun at you. common sense. heck... even armed private citizen knows that.

Are you sure that the book says a cop can shoot to kill, even though someone is not pointing a gun at him/her (ex: someone put the hands up or down with a gun)? Shouldn't a cop say "Drop the gun" first before shoot to kill?

 

[Jiro]

Are you sure that the book says a cop can shoot to kill, even though someone is not pointing a gun at him/her (ex: someone put the hands up or down with a gun)? Shouldn't a cop say "Drop the gun" first before shoot to kill?

of course. failure to comply will simply get you killed. plain and simple.

 

[Saavik]

Are you saying that the police should always wait until someone gets shot (and possibly killed) before they open fire?

In the Army, I was always told my rules of engagement were not to fire, until you are fired upon and these were rules set out for an enviroment where there are people waiting to gun you down or blow you up.

State side isn't a combat zone, so why should cops have more justification than someone in a combat zone to open fire and especially with as many rounds as they fired, the cops themselves could have easily hit someone not involved at all. I know you think they are highly trained, but even people well trained are not perfect and rounds don't always go where you intend them to.

I remember in training once "You shoot to disable, not to kill, but you still might end up killing them because there is no garantee your round will go where you were aiming, so in a report, you always list your actions as "shot to disable"."

 

[Foxrac]

Are you sure that the book says a cop can shoot to kill, even though someone is not pointing a gun at him/her (ex: someone put the hands up or down with a gun)? Shouldn't a cop say "Drop the gun" first before shoot to kill?

The cop did point the gun at me when I was 18 years old and they accused me of DUI, but breathalyzer came back with ZERO so they let me free and apologized about scared me off, but they thought I was try to flee away.

 

[Reba]

...I know you think they are highly trained…..

No, you don't know what I think. I was merely asking for a clarification of another member's post.

 

[CrazyPaul]

of course. failure to comply will simply get you killed. plain and simple.

That's what I am talking about. Cops shouldn't shoot to kill if someone is complying with cop's order (dropping the gun).