Shooting at U S Capitol

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There are States that allow citizens to resist an unlawful arrest. However, in the following situation - a man had his home invaded by 6 Officers, decided to run to his room, with a gun, and the Officers shot over 30 times (and it turned out to be the wrong house too):

7/17/98 Houston Chronicle Article on Pedro Oregon Navarro Shooting

Harris County District Attorney John B. Holmes Jr. said Thursday that the six Houston police officers involved in a Sunday raid in which a man was killed could have been within their rights to shoot him - even if they had no right to be in his home.

"I don't know of any authority at this point that gave them the right to be in that residence," Holmes said. "But that doesn't make the shooting a crime."

The six suspended officers, assigned to the gang task force at the Southwest patrol division, reportedly fired about 30 shots after breaking into Pedro Oregon Navarro 's apartment at 6711 Atwell at 1:30 a.m. Sunday in southwest Houston.

Relatives of Oregon , 23, who died from multiple bullet wounds, have retained attorney Paul Nugent to investigate his death.

Nugent said family members told him that even after Oregon was shot, the officers tried to bully them into saying he had been dealing drugs. He said they had denied it.

Police acknowledged that no drugs were found in the apartment.
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In my State, citizens are allowed to intervene if they witness an Officer UNLAWFULLY detaining someone (such as the following situation shows):

Deputy fired after trying to arrest soldier at bar - FOX Carolina 21
 
Steinhauer said:
There are States that allow citizens to resist an unlawful arrest. However, in the following situation - a man had his home invaded by 6 Officers, decided to run to his room, with a gun, and the Officers shot over 30 times (and it turned out to be the wrong house too):

7/17/98 Houston Chronicle Article on Pedro Oregon Navarro Shooting



In my State, citizens are allowed to intervene if they witness an Officer UNLAWFULLY detaining someone (such as the following situation shows):

Deputy fired after trying to arrest soldier at bar - FOX Carolina 21
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If you want to kill the police officer so you better prepare for unusual scenario - death penalty or life sentence in state prison. If my life is in threat by law enforcement officers, I will not want to kill the police officers and try to get through, because I don't want deal with huge legal mess with life sentence or death penalty, and it is very hard to win or acquitted, even if you obviously know that you were in self defense.
 
It depends, sometimes doing nothing can let cops get away with it because they would hand down, nothing happens. No evidence, then your SOL But because of shooting out then the PD would have to deal with it and they might have to fight hard with chance of losing the case. No evidence = no case = no merit. Talking is not considered as evidence, discharged firearm is hard evidence.

Foxrac said:
If you want to kill the police officer so you better prepare for unusual scenario - death penalty or life sentence in state prison. If my life is in threat by law enforcement officers, I will not want to kill the police officers and try to get through, because I don't want deal with huge legal mess with life sentence or death penalty, and it is very hard to win or acquitted, even if you obviously know that you were in self defense.
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Steinhauer said:
There are States that allow citizens to resist an unlawful arrest. However, in the following situation - a man had his home invaded by 6 Officers, decided to run to his room, with a gun, and the Officers shot over 30 times (and it turned out to be the wrong house too):

In my State, citizens are allowed to intervene if they witness an Officer UNLAWFULLY detaining someone….
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Legally being allowed is one thing; getting in the middle of a physical altercation or shoot out is another. During the confrontation sometimes it's more prudent to cooperate. The legal ramifications are usually what get sorted out after the fact.
 
CrazyPaul said:
That's what I am talking about. Cops shouldn't shoot to kill if someone is complying with cop's order (dropping the gun).
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right. in this case - he didn't comply.
 
Reba said:
Legally being allowed is one thing; getting in the middle of a physical altercation or shoot out is another. During the confrontation sometimes it's more prudent to cooperate. The legal ramifications are usually what get sorted out after the fact.
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I know.

We had a Pastor from Toccoa, Georgia, get shot and killed at a gas station by two undercover Officers.

They initially claimed, that they had gotten out of their vehicle to apprehend the pastor, but he fled and struck one of them with his vehicle, so they opened fire.

Except .... that isn't what happened. The owner of the gas station released the video of the event. They looked like two random dudes trying to rob the pastor at gunpoint. They jumped out of an unmarked pickup truck, waving guns at him.

The court proceeding afterwards excused the two Officers. They dragged the Pastor through the gutter - made claims he was a drug dealer soliciting prostitutes. This made everyone who knew about it angry. Including the so called prostitute he had solicited.

She was a friend of his from high school, had a baby she could not support, and asked the Pastor for help (part of his outreach ministry). He took her groceries and gas money. After that, he was followed to the gas station by the undercover Officers - where they attempted to apprehend him.

So .. the local population put enormous pressure on the GBI to do an investigation. Turns out, one of the Officers was not supposed to even be working. He had failed several certification exams - including his firearms training. He had no arrest powers.
 
Steinhauer said:
I know.

We had a Pastor from Toccoa, Georgia, get shot and killed at a gas station by two undercover Officers.

They initially claimed, that they had gotten out of their vehicle to apprehend the pastor, but he fled and struck one of them with his vehicle, so they opened fire.

Except .... that isn't what happened. The owner of the gas station released the video of the event. They looked like two random dudes trying to rob the pastor at gunpoint. They jumped out of an unmarked pickup truck, waving guns at him.

The court proceeding afterwards excused the two Officers. They dragged the Pastor through the gutter - made claims he was a drug dealer soliciting prostitutes. This made everyone who knew about it angry. Including the so called prostitute he had solicited.

She was a friend of his from high school, had a baby she could not support, and asked the Pastor for help (part of his outreach ministry). He took her groceries and gas money. After that, he was followed to the gas station by the undercover Officers - where they attempted to apprehend him.

So .. the local population put enormous pressure on the GBI to do an investigation. Turns out, one of the Officers was not supposed to even be working. He had failed several certification exams - including his firearms training. He had no arrest powers.
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[UPDATE] Rev. Jonathan Ayers Shot by Police in Georgia Drug Sting - True Crime Report - Strange But True Crime Stories from Across America.

Police defend killing of Baptist pastor

OMG, the witnesses thought those guys were robbers as well. That means the police officers didn't yell "Police" and in the video, I notice that they were wearing a black ski mask which robbers usually wear.

Ayers claims her lawsuit that the GBI didn’t talk to witnesses who report a different version of what happened than the one put forward by the police.
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Jiro said:
are you saying we should be allowed to shoot at cops if they were in the wrong?
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A better question would be . . . are cops exempt from murder charges if they kill an innocent person?
 
Steinhauer said:
A better question would be . . . are cops exempt from murder charges if they kill an innocent person?
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incorrect. you're asking about something completely different.

and to answer your question - cops have always been prosecuted for murders. period. some cops may have gotten away with it.... and so do civilians.
 
Jiro said:
incorrect. you're asking a completely different question.

and to answer your question - cops have always been prosecuted for murders. period. some cops may have gotten away with it.... and so do civilians.
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The first example I posted in post #182 contradicts what you just said.

6 Officers invaded an INNOCENT man's home, without a warrant, and murdered him. The agency is claiming it was a justifiable shooting.

The fact that the INNOCENT man decided to arm himself, in his own home, and protect himself, did not make him a criminal. I think I am beginning to understand now why you called me a traitor - it is because I do not support the Communist Manifesto of this Socialist President when it comes to gun control and the shredding of the Bill of Rights.

That actually makes him a traitor.
 
Steinhauer said:
The first example I posted in post #182 contradicts what you just said.

6 Officers invaded an INNOCENT man's home, without a warrant, and murdered him. The agency is claiming it was a justifiable shooting.

The fact that the INNOCENT man decided to arm himself, in his own home, and protect himself, did not make him a criminal. I think I am beginning to understand now why you called me a traitor - it is because I do not support the Communist Manifesto of this Socialist President when it comes to gun control and the shredding of the Bill of Rights.

That actually makes him a traitor.
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You are traitor because you want to destroy our government by shutdown and default.

Some police officers made mistake, so they are perfect person? No, not at all.
 
Yup, like I said all along. This will get worse until we stand up tall on all US constitution including 1A and 2A.


Steinhauer said:
The first example I posted in post #182 contradicts what you just said.

6 Officers invaded an INNOCENT man's home, without a warrant, and murdered him. The agency is claiming it was a justifiable shooting.

The fact that the INNOCENT man decided to arm himself, in his own home, and protect himself, did not make him a criminal. I think I am beginning to understand now why you called me a traitor - it is because I do not support the Communist Manifesto of this Socialist President when it comes to gun control and the shredding of the Bill of Rights.

That actually makes him a traitor.
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If you are distrust with city police department so why not disband them and let sheriff department takeover to patrol the city?
 
Steinhauer said:
The first example I posted in post #182 contradicts what you just said.

6 Officers invaded an INNOCENT man's home, without a warrant, and murdered him. The agency is claiming it was a justifiable shooting.
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which goes back to my question - "are you saying we should be allowed to shoot at cops if they were in the wrong?"

and IMO about the incident you've mentioned... that is clearly wrong. they should be held accountable for it.

Steinhauer said:
The fact that the INNOCENT man decided to arm himself, in his own home, and protect himself, did not make him a criminal. I think I am beginning to understand now why you called me a traitor - it is because I do not support the Communist Manifesto of this Socialist President when it comes to gun control and the shredding of the Bill of Rights.

That actually makes him a traitor.
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incorrect. I called you a traitor because you wanted to subvert the Constitution regarding Obamacare and government shutdown... nothing to do with this unfortunate shooting death.
 
He DOES have point, BUT he forgot there are two sides of Americans, one refused to support health care by forcing to pay for it which our constitution outlined that they have their rights, and at the same time the other part of America gets fed up by forcing to pay the other half for their medical expenses, those people DO have right to demand the money or refuse to pay for them which would be breaking the law. Health care as we know, I do see conflict, and I do support Obamacare for this reason and it was my right to make them pay for medical expenses and I have the right refuse paying for them like Steinhauer. This is the conflict I'm seeing. I only see Obamacare as first step in major health care overhaul. We really need overhaul for sure, but the question is HOW? Nobody knows the answer, unless we start something we will never find out, hence this is why I support Obamacare.

About Gun rights, I am all for it because I DO see the benefit of having everybody involved to keep our country in peace and safe. Without them (Firearms), there won't be any peace here and more crazy people will be jumping like crazy.

Foxrac said:
You are traitor because you want to destroy our government by shutdown and default on debt.

Some police officers made mistake, so they are perfect person? No, not at all.
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diehardbiker said:
Yup, like I said all along. This will get worse until we stand up tall on all US constitution including 1A and 2A.
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you still haven't answered my question.

are you saying we should be allowed to shoot at cops if they were in the wrong?
 
Foxrac said:
If you are distrust with city police department so why not disband them and let sheriff department takeover to patrol the city?
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I doubt a sheriff department can ever take over a city police department like NYC.... the job's extremely enormous.

I would prefer that we law-abiding citizens be able to defend ourselves with guns.
 
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