SEE: "has become extremely popular in the schools"?

Silentwolfdog said:
Hmm, I know sometimes I will use "ing", "ly", or "ful" by accident. I think it depends on my mood I am at that day, lol. Like being shocked, I would sign "real" then "ly?" together.

I know signs for "to," "then," "so," "I," "he" and so on.

It's interesting that I know many of SEE signs but never really used it nowadays. It's too much of chore for me. I can see why ASL is better for many especially if you have to use hands to communicate.

So to me SEE does not really help with my English because I just ended up cutting it out of my sentences. As result of that I became PSE, one without a native language.
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That's a very interesting way to put that. I like it!:cool:
 
jillio said:
[/B]

That's a very interesting way to put that. I like it!:cool:
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Heh, thanks.

Yeah, that's what I was told and heck that's how I feel as well. But thankfully, I think I am well off in comparison to many who used PSE in area where I lived.

I think one of my goal is to learn all grammar rules of ASL and at least improve my English some more. So that someday, I can use both fluently.

It's never too late to learn right? ;)

I would like to be able to listen to ASL user without getting a headache, lol.
 
Silentwolfdog said:
Heh, thanks.

Yeah, that's what I was told and heck that's how I feel as well. But thankfully, I think I am well off in comparison to many who used PSE in area where I lived.

I think one of my goal is to learn all grammar rules of ASL and at least improve my English some more. So that someday, I can use both fluently.

It's never too late to learn right? ;)

I would like to be able to listen to ASL user without getting a headache, lol.
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Nope, it is never too late to learn! I agree that PSE can interfere with the elarning of proper grammar and syntax for both English and ASL because a kid doesn't get a good model of either language.

You know, I have been signing for over 20 years, and still, every now and then, a native signer will correct my grammar. That's because even though I am fluent, and have even been mistaken for deaf, it is my second language. ASL is a rich and complicated language, and it doesn't follow the rules that spoken languages follow. There are very good reasons for this, but that's another topic, lol!

You write very well...you are clear and concise, and I can see that you have a good foundation in English. Just keep learning, if that is your goal. Learning is not a goal or a destination. It is a life long journey!
 
jillio said:
Nope, it is never too late to learn! I agree that PSE can interfere with the elarning of proper grammar and syntax for both English and ASL because a kid doesn't get a good model of either language.

You know, I have been signing for over 20 years, and still, every now and then, a native signer will correct my grammar. That's because even though I am fluent, and have even been mistaken for deaf, it is my second language. ASL is a rich and complicated language, and it doesn't follow the rules that spoken languages follow. There are very good reasons for this, but that's another topic, lol!

You write very well...you are clear and concise, and I can see that you have a good foundation in English. Just keep learning, if that is your goal. Learning is not a goal or a destination. It is a life long journey!
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ASL is a rich and complicated language and so is English. For deaf or hearing people to be fluent in both is just awesome.
 
jillio said:
So true.
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I guess that is my dream for deaf children. To be our next generation of philosophers who think abstractly. I dont know what the terminologies are when it comes to deep thinkers.
 
shel90 said:
I guess that is my dream for deaf children. To be our next generation of philosophers who think abstractly. I dont know what the terminologies are when it comes to deep thinkers.
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Fluid thinkers, philosophical thinkers, creative thinkers. And deaf children have that cpapbility, if they are given the language with which to use their capabilities.
 
I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything new when I say that "trends" have continually flowed thru Deaf education over the past couple hundred years in America. Oral vs. signing, SEE vs. ASL, residential vs. mainstream, bi-bi, total communication, cued speech, and so forth.

SEE was very "popular" for a period when the developers of it pushed hard to get it into all deaf ed programs (follow the money). Then, the pendulum swung towards ASL and bi-bi for a while, especially after the DPN movement, and a surge of Deaf pride and empowerment. The public schools had a dilemma. Most of their educational interpreters used variations of SEE and PSE but to be politically correct they wanted to use ASL in their programs. What to do? Well, they can tell everyone that they promote ASL but keep using PSE until that future day when they can hire more ASL terps. Guess what? That future day never arises in some schools. :(

Or some public mainstream schools decide that if the terps say they use ASL, and tell the Deaf students that, yes, this is ASL, maybe no one will notice that it's NOT ASL!

You can't imagine how many times I'm sent on an interpreting assignment to a consumer who has specifically requested ASL interpreting only to find out that they use very English PSE signing. They know that ASL is preferred in the Deaf community, so they insist that they are using ASL. I don't argue with Deaf consumers; I just adjust my signing to fit their needs without comment. As we chat, I find out that they attended mainstream programs, and that their only signing models were the educational interpreters or an occasional fellow Deaf student.

What I'm trying to say is, SEE never really went away. It just got shuffled around, took on a pseudonym, and laid low for a while. But it was still there.

SEE will always be "popular" with public school "educators" because it's easier for the hearing people to deal with.

Is "easier" the same as "better"? Is "popular" the same as "effective"? You be the judge.
 
Just one more point (which others have also made).

ASL is its own language--it's not a "broken" or substandard version of any other language.

Just because an English speaker can't understand a French speaker, that doesn't mean the French person is speaking a "broken" language. The French person is using fluent French.


If someone signs SEE do we call it "broken ASL?"
 
Reba said:
I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything new when I say that "trends" have continually flowed thru Deaf education over the past couple hundred years in America. Oral vs. signing, SEE vs. ASL, residential vs. mainstream, bi-bi, total communication, cued speech, and so forth.

SEE was very "popular" for a period when the developers of it pushed hard to get it into all deaf ed programs (follow the money). Then, the pendulum swung towards ASL and bi-bi for a while, especially after the DPN movement, and a surge of Deaf pride and empowerment. The public schools had a dilemma. Most of their educational interpreters used variations of SEE and PSE but to be politically correct they wanted to use ASL in their programs. What to do? Well, they can tell everyone that they promote ASL but keep using PSE until that future day when they can hire more ASL terps. Guess what? That future day never arises in some schools. :(

Or some public mainstream schools decide that if the terps say they use ASL, and tell the Deaf students that, yes, this is ASL, maybe no one will notice that it's NOT ASL!

You can't imagine how many times I'm sent on an interpreting assignment to a consumer who has specifically requested ASL interpreting only to find out that they use very English PSE signing. They know that ASL is preferred in the Deaf community, so they insist that they are using ASL. I don't argue with Deaf consumers; I just adjust my signing to fit their needs without comment. As we chat, I find out that they attended mainstream programs, and that their only signing models were the educational interpreters or an occasional fellow Deaf student.

What I'm trying to say is, SEE never really went away. It just got shuffled around, took on a pseudonym, and laid low for a while. But it was still there.

SEE will always be "popular" with public school "educators" because it's easier for the hearing people to deal with.

Is "easier" the same as "better"? Is "popular" the same as "effective"? You be the judge.
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I was never exposed to SEE. My first exposure to sign language was a pure model of ASL so I dont know what it is like to sign SEE full time.

Anyways, I feel that since hearing children are getting the proper model of English and we know that spoken language is not fully accessible to deaf children like it is for hearing children so if I want an equal educational access for all deaf children like their hearing counterparts get, then the visual language should be a pure model of the language whether it is BSL, ASL, FSL and so on. That's my opinion.

As a teacher, I cant imagine delivering the same effective lessons using SEE as I do using ASL.

I worked in a TC program one time at a public school and all of the teachers and interpreters called SEE as "ASL". One of the teachers who worked there briefly used to argue with everyone about how it wasnt ASL. At the time, I was just starting to learn ASL and didnt understand it enough to be able to distinguish the 2. Looking back, that deaf teacher was right.
 
Reba said:
Just one more point (which others have also made).

ASL is its own language--it's not a "broken" or substandard version of any other language.

Just because an English speaker can't understand a French speaker, that doesn't mean the French person is speaking a "broken" language. The French person is using fluent French.


If someone signs SEE do we call it "broken ASL?"[/QUOTE]


Good point.
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Reba said:
I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything new when I say that "trends" have continually flowed thru Deaf education over the past couple hundred years in America. Oral vs. signing, SEE vs. ASL, residential vs. mainstream, bi-bi, total communication, cued speech, and so forth.

SEE was very "popular" for a period when the developers of it pushed hard to get it into all deaf ed programs (follow the money). Then, the pendulum swung towards ASL and bi-bi for a while, especially after the DPN movement, and a surge of Deaf pride and empowerment. The public schools had a dilemma. Most of their educational interpreters used variations of SEE and PSE but to be politically correct they wanted to use ASL in their programs. What to do? Well, they can tell everyone that they promote ASL but keep using PSE until that future day when they can hire more ASL terps. Guess what? That future day never arises in some schools. :(

Or some public mainstream schools decide that if the terps say they use ASL, and tell the Deaf students that, yes, this is ASL, maybe no one will notice that it's NOT ASL!

You can't imagine how many times I'm sent on an interpreting assignment to a consumer who has specifically requested ASL interpreting only to find out that they use very English PSE signing. They know that ASL is preferred in the Deaf community, so they insist that they are using ASL. I don't argue with Deaf consumers; I just adjust my signing to fit their needs without comment. As we chat, I find out that they attended mainstream programs, and that their only signing models were the educational interpreters or an occasional fellow Deaf student.

What I'm trying to say is, SEE never really went away. It just got shuffled around, took on a pseudonym, and laid low for a while. But it was still there.

SEE will always be "popular" with public school "educators" because it's easier for the hearing people to deal with.

Is "easier" the same as "better"? Is "popular" the same as "effective"? You be the judge.
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In my assessment, the answer to the above question is a decided, "No!"
 
Reba said:
Just one more point (which others have also made).

ASL is its own language--it's not a "broken" or substandard version of any other language.

Just because an English speaker can't understand a French speaker, that doesn't mean the French person is speaking a "broken" language. The French person is using fluent French.


If someone signs SEE do we call it "broken ASL?"
Click to expand...


Excellent points.
 
Reba said:
I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything new when I say that "trends" have continually flowed thru Deaf education over the past couple hundred years in America. Oral vs. signing, SEE vs. ASL, residential vs. mainstream, bi-bi, total communication, cued speech, and so forth.

SEE was very "popular" for a period when the developers of it pushed hard to get it into all deaf ed programs (follow the money). Then, the pendulum swung towards ASL and bi-bi for a while, especially after the DPN movement, and a surge of Deaf pride and empowerment. The public schools had a dilemma. Most of their educational interpreters used variations of SEE and PSE but to be politically correct they wanted to use ASL in their programs. What to do? Well, they can tell everyone that they promote ASL but keep using PSE until that future day when they can hire more ASL terps. Guess what? That future day never arises in some schools. :(

Or some public mainstream schools decide that if the terps say they use ASL, and tell the Deaf students that, yes, this is ASL, maybe no one will notice that it's NOT ASL!

You can't imagine how many times I'm sent on an interpreting assignment to a consumer who has specifically requested ASL interpreting only to find out that they use very English PSE signing. They know that ASL is preferred in the Deaf community, so they insist that they are using ASL. I don't argue with Deaf consumers; I just adjust my signing to fit their needs without comment. As we chat, I find out that they attended mainstream programs, and that their only signing models were the educational interpreters or an occasional fellow Deaf student.

What I'm trying to say is, SEE never really went away. It just got shuffled around, took on a pseudonym, and laid low for a while. But it was still there.

SEE will always be "popular" with public school "educators" because it's easier for the hearing people to deal with.

Is "easier" the same as "better"? Is "popular" the same as "effective"? You be the judge.
Click to expand...


:gpost:! Thanks for a really interesting post Reba.

When I was in total communication (TC) at a public school during my high school years, I learned to signed in SEE, I was thrilled that I understand better with signs than being oralism, After I graduate from high school, I was shocked to see how different other deaf people use in sign lauguages which was ASL, they were making fun of me simply because I signed in SEE so I decide to change it to ASL for them. I don't understand why some people can be quite picky on which signs others used. I think we should be proud that we know sign language no matter whether it's ASL, SEE or PSE.
 
Angel said:
:gpost:! Thanks for a really interesting post Reba.

When I was in total communication (TC) at a public school during my high school years, I learned to signed in SEE, I was thrilled that I understand better with signs than being oralism, After I graduate from high school, I was shocked to see how different other deaf people use in sign lauguages which was ASL, they were making fun of me simply because I signed in SEE so I decide to change it to ASL for them. I don't understand why some people can be quite picky on which signs others used. I think we should be proud that we know sign language no matter whether it's ASL, SEE or PSE and that's it.
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True...

I would rather have had SEE than oral but I got NOTHING!!! LOL!
 
Angel said:
:gpost:! Thanks for a really interesting post Reba.

When I was in total communication (TC) at a public school during my high school years, I learned to signed in SEE, I was thrilled that I understand better with signs than being oralism, After I graduate from high school, I was shocked to see how different other deaf people use in sign lauguages which was ASL, they were making fun of me simply because I signed in SEE so I decide to change it to ASL for them. I don't understand why some people can be quite picky on which signs others used. I think we should be proud that we know sign language no matter whether it's ASL, SEE or PSE.
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Amennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! :bowdown:
 
Angel said:
...After I graduate from high school, I was shocked to see how different other deaf people use in sign lauguages which was ASL, they were making fun of me simply because I signed in SEE...
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That was very mean of them. :mad:
 
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