SEE: "has become extremely popular in the schools"?

I

InnocentOdion

New Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
189
Reaction score
0
What is SEE?

Signing Exact English (SEE) is a sign system that matches signs with the English language. It is one of the first manual English systems to be published (1972) and has become extremely popular in the schools. Children who are exposed at an early age to SEE are able to learn idiomatic standard English and thus have learning opportunities similar to those of hearing children.
Click to expand...

Modern Signs Press, Inc. - Frequently Asked Questions date copied 2008-01-30

Does anyone know how true this is? I thought SEE usage was supposed to be decreasing, not increasing.

Also, I'm curious to see a website on "learn SEE"; I can't find any. I'm really curious about how they sign 'ing' and 'ful' and 'to', for example, but I can't find anything on it. I don't plan on learning it (heaven forbid), but I am curious as to how these are planted next to signs.
 
InnocentOdion said:
Modern Signs Press, Inc. - Frequently Asked Questions date copied 2008-01-30

Does anyone know how true this is? I thought SEE usage was supposed to be decreasing, not increasing.

Also, I'm curious to see a website on "learn SEE"; I can't find any. I'm really curious about how they sign 'ing' and 'ful' and 'to', for example, but I can't find anything on it. I don't plan on learning it (heaven forbid), but I am curious as to how these are planted next to signs.
Click to expand...

False. The "ing" sign for example, is made with the same handshape as "j" only the sign moves outwardly instead of inward, as in "j". "Ful" is fingerspelled, as is "ed". "To" is nondominant hand in 1 handshape with dominant hand in 1 handshape moving to and touching the index finger of nondominant hand."S" as in plural and possessive is fingerspelled. These are just a few examples, but you can begin to see how cumbersome it is.
 
Why would you think that SEE usage was supposed to be decreasing, not increasing? There's nothing wrong with SEE signs. I use it and I would continue to use it. :)
 
Yeah, I don't see a problem with the SEE. My hearing sister uses SEE. I have nothing to against any type of sign languages.
 
I've seen the ed signed as a d being thrown over the shoulder as in past. For ness, it's n moving downwards against a flat vertical hand.
 
jilio, what do you mean "False"? To which part?

I've heard SEE is decreasing on various anti-SEE or pro-ASL only websites. Am I wrong that it's decreasing?

I don't have any problem with people using SEE, but I wouldn't learn it as it's a lot more work to have sign English and to have to sign every single word when they aren't needed, and ASL is far more popular, so if any other sign language I'd learn ASL (I'm a native Briton so I study BSL). I like dropping things which aren't needed during the conversation, as well as having two signs for "happy" and "merry" when one is enough.

However, a few signs are always useful to know, which is why I was curious as to a couple of them. :) It does seem like it could be a lot harder to sign sentences in, though maybe it's because I'm used to dropping "to" and "ing" and stuff.
 
I guess it depends on ones preferences. So many different ways to speak in the English language. just consider it as an accent. People speaks different accents and slangs. and the ASL, SEE, PSE. are all different but yet one can understand what they are saying.

It doesn't bother me either. I have talked to people that signs different ways and methods. Just respect their choices of language. I know some ASL is different in the northern part of the US from the southern. Just as the accents are.
 
Cheri said:
Why would you think that SEE usage was supposed to be decreasing, not increasing? There's nothing wrong with SEE signs. I use it and I would continue to use it. :)
Click to expand...

No, there is nothing wrong with SEE signs used in a conversational context. However, it is decreasing in educational usage. Even in theory, those programs that claim to incorporate SEE actually, when observed, use a PSE system.
 
InnocentOdion said:
jilio, what do you mean "False"? To which part?

I've heard SEE is decreasing on various anti-SEE or pro-ASL only websites. Am I wrong that it's decreasing?

I don't have any problem with people using SEE, but I wouldn't learn it as it's a lot more work to have sign English and to have to sign every single word when they aren't needed, and ASL is far more popular, so if any other sign language I'd learn ASL (I'm a native Briton so I study BSL). I like dropping things which aren't needed during the conversation, as well as having two signs for "happy" and "merry" when one is enough.

However, a few signs are always useful to know, which is why I was curious as to a couple of them. :) It does seem like it could be a lot harder to sign sentences in, though maybe it's because I'm used to dropping "to" and "ing" and stuff.
Click to expand...

I meant that it is on the decrease in an educational environment. I don't have a problem with anyone who chooses to use SEE, if that is their preferred method of communication. But various studies have shown that even when most individuals claim to use SEE, what they are actually using is PSE. Unless one includes every word ending, every possessive, initializes every sign to correspond with the word equivilant rather than signing concept, and signs every word in a sentence in correct English syntax, then one is not using SEE.
 
Babyblue said:
I guess it depends on ones preferences. So many different ways to speak in the English language. just consider it as an accent. People speaks different accents and slangs. and the ASL, SEE, PSE. are all different but yet one can understand what they are saying.

It doesn't bother me either. I have talked to people that signs different ways and methods. Just respect their choices of language. I know some ASL is different in the northern part of the US from the southern. Just as the accents are.
Click to expand...

Yes, certain signs will vary from region to region just as spoken dialects will vary from region to region. And if I am having a conversation with a deaf individual who prefers an English syntax, I will sign in English syntax. If I am having a conversation with a deaf individual who prefers an ASL syntax, I willsign using an ASL syntax. But SEE doesn't change just the syntax, it fundamentally changes the language. For instance, finger spelling -ed on the end of a sign to signify past tense. In a visual language, past tense is conveyed either through context or through time markers. The same with plurals. A plural in a signed language is conveyed either through context or by repeating the sign. However, while repeating "tree, tree, tree" makes sense in a visual medium, one does not say "tree, tree, tree" when speaking, but simply pronounces the "s" on the end of the word. These are the differences that make ASL a language separate from English, and not simply another mode of English, and are the very criteria that were used by Stokoe is his research on ASL that led to it being designated a true language.
 
jillio said:
Yes, certain signs will vary from region to region just as spoken dialects will vary from region to region. And if I am having a conversation with a deaf individual who prefers an English syntax, I will sign in English syntax. If I am having a conversation with a deaf individual who prefers an ASL syntax, I willsign using an ASL syntax. But SEE doesn't change just the syntax, it fundamentally changes the language. For instance, finger spelling -ed on the end of a sign to signify past tense. In a visual language, past tense is conveyed either through context or through time markers. The same with plurals. A plural in a signed language is conveyed either through context or by repeating the sign. However, while repeating "tree, tree, tree" makes sense in a visual medium, one does not say "tree, tree, tree" when speaking, but simply pronounces the "s" on the end of the word. These are the differences that make ASL a language separate from English, and not simply another mode of English, and are the very criteria that were used by Stokoe is his research on ASL that led to it being designated a true language.
Click to expand...


I understand that but the _ings and -ed has a tendency to throw some people off that are not familiar with SEE. So in a sense it is a different Language. SEE is English when ASL is considered "Broken English"
 
Babyblue said:
I understand that but the _ings and -ed has a tendency to throw some people off that are not familiar with SEE. So in a sense it is a different Language. SEE is English when ASL is considered "Broken English"
Click to expand...

I agree...it is the word endings and the initialized signs that do throw people off and create an artificial feel to SEE. ASL is not considered "broken English". ASL is not English at all. I think maybe you meant "PSE", as PSE resembles the "broken English" spoken by some new learners of Englsih.

Here would be the difference:

English: Today I planted 2 trees in my yard.

SEE: Now+day, me sign initialized with "i", plant+fingerspelled ed, number sign 2, tree+fingerspelled "s" in, my, land initialized with "y".

PSE: Now+day, plant 2 tree yard.

ASL: Now+day, land, tree (tree repeat) plant.
 
I know some of SEE signs, I guess I probably used it when I was younger but ended up using PSE instead. Dunno, the background of my sign language is not very clear...all I know is that it was not ASL, that's it.
 
Silentwolfdog said:
I know some of SEE signs, I guess I probably used it when I was younger but ended up using PSE instead. Dunno, the background of my sign language is not very clear...all I know is that it was not ASL, that's it.
Click to expand...

I know many PSE users that will use some of the initialized signs from SEE, but I haven't run into any that use all of the word endings and such.
 
jillio said:
I agree...it is the word endings and the initialized signs that do throw people off and create an artificial feel to SEE. ASL is not considered "broken English". ASL is not English at all. I think maybe you meant "PSE", as PSE resembles the "broken English" spoken by some new learners of Englsih.

Here would be the difference:

English: Today I planted 2 trees in my yard.

SEE: Now+day, me sign initialized with "i", plant+fingerspelled ed, number sign 2, tree+fingerspelled "s" in, my, land initialized with "y".

PSE: Now+day, plant 2 tree yard.

ASL: Now+day, land, tree (tree repeat) plant.
Click to expand...


In PSE or ASL it is not always signed in that order......that you have posted. Depends on who is signing..
 
Babyblue said:
In PSE or ASL it is not always signed in that order......that you have posted. Depends on who is signing..
Click to expand...

PSE syntax will vary depending upon both the signer and the receiver, but if one is signing ASL according to the syntactical and grammatical rules of ASL, they will conform to those rules. PSE is a pidgin language, and therefore does not conform to English or to ASL, the two languages on which it is based. Just as there are rules regarding the use of grammar and syntax for English, or Spanish, or French, there are rules regarding the use of grammar and syntax for ASL. The consistency of those rules in usage is one of the foundation criteria of it being a separate language, and what Stokoe spend to much time studying in order to have ASL identified as a separate and complete langauge.
 
jillio said:
PSE syntax will vary depending upon both the signer and the receiver, but if one is signing ASL according to the syntactical and grammatical rules of ASL, they will conform to those rules. PSE is a pidgin language, and therefore does not conform to English or to ASL, the two languages on which it is based. Just as there are rules regarding the use of grammar and syntax for English, or Spanish, or French, there are rules regarding the use of grammar and syntax for ASL. The consistency of those rules in usage is one of the foundation criteria of it being a separate language, and what Stokoe spend to much time studying in order to have ASL identified as a separate and complete langauge.
Click to expand...

I understand that but their are different ways of doing ASL not just one.

subject-verb-object= I love apple pie

subject-verb-object-subject= I love apple pie I

object-subject-verb= Apple pie I love

verb-object-subject= love apple pie I

object-verb-subject= apple pie love I

Just saying depends on who you are talking to......

Resources came from http://daphne.palomar.edu/kstruxness/ASL Grammar Rules 1-06.pdf
 
Hmm, I know sometimes I will use "ing", "ly", or "ful" by accident. I think it depends on my mood I am at that day, lol. Like being shocked, I would sign "real" then "ly?" together.

I know signs for "to," "then," "so," "I," "he" and so on.

It's interesting that I know many of SEE signs but never really used it nowadays. It's too much of chore for me. I can see why ASL is better for many especially if you have to use hands to communicate.

So to me SEE does not really help with my English because I just ended up cutting it out of my sentences. As result of that I became PSE, one without a native language.
 
http://www.bu.edu/asllrp/asllrpr12.pdf

Not to get into a detailed discusssion on linguistics, but this link explains it very well. While you might find the same concepts used in different order, the different order will change the semantics, and therefore, the English interpretation.
 
Back
Top