School for the Deaf denies deaf child with Down Syndrome placement

[dogmom]

wait, why assume a student with Down Syndrome wouldn't be doing algebra?
my experience has been generally that d/Deaf people with cognitive disabilities are included in the community - however, educational placements can be different than social situations.

I also think that in general in the human condition there is still a lot of misunderstanding and stereotypes regarding people with cognitive disabilities, especially cognitive disabilities that usually have distinct physical characteristics such as Down Syndrome.

 

[purplewowies]

If a mainstream school receives a hearing student with DS and (for whatever reason) does not have the resources to appropriately teach the child, the school has the right to deny that child placement in their school, provided that the home school can send them to an alternate school that DOES have the resources.

If a Deaf school receives a Deaf student with DS and (for whatever reason) does not have the resources to appropriately teach the child, the school has the right to deny that child placement in their school, provided that the home school can send them to another alternate school that DOES have the resources.

If the Deaf school in this thread does not have the appropriate resources to teach a child with an intellectual disability, I see no reason why the child cannot be turned away, providing that there is an alternate school which does have appropriate resources for both deafness and DS.

I know other people have said it in here, but I felt the need to get it out.

 

[shel90]

But a student with DS wouldn't be doing algebra.

Are mentally retarded deaf excluded from the Deaf community? haven't we seen pages and pages about socialization? community? neglect? I'm not saying this school should take the girl if they can't meet her needs, but who's fighting for her?

I'm just curious as to how it works. Each culture has their own rules for who is in and who is out, but I wonder (and I'm sure I'll be jumped on for this) if there a reaction to deaf with intellectual disabilities because deaf have been called 'dumb' for so long.

How did it become about the Deaf community rejecting this child? This is not about the Deaf community. It is about the school's decision regarding her placement.

The Deaf community has no power over the policies or the budget restrictions set by the state.

 

[Banjo]

If the school is unable to provide the resources needed for the student, then it's not a good environment for the student to be in.

 

[jillio]

I don't see where my logic is flawed. I have said - what - three times now? We don't have enough info.

Of course I feel bad for the student. It's unlikely she'll get the support she needs. Or rather, it's not in her odds.

Please show where my logic is 'flawed'.

I know you don't see where your logic is flawed. I have already pointed out the flaws.

Still can't decide placement based on feeling bad for the student.

 

[jillio]

But a student with DS wouldn't be doing algebra. Are mentally retarded deaf excluded from the Deaf community? haven't we seen pages and pages about socialization? community? neglect? I'm not saying this school should take the girl if they can't meet her needs, but who's fighting for her?

I'm just curious as to how it works. Each culture has their own rules for who is in and who is out, but I wonder (and I'm sure I'll be jumped on for this) if there a reaction to deaf with intellectual disabilities because deaf have been called 'dumb' for so long.

Why would you automatically assume that? Some DS individuals are capable of doing algebra. We don't know if this particular one is or not. But certainly, it is not a given that a DS student would not be doing algebra.

Again, if a DS student is placed in a deaf school in a classroom with non-DS students, it is expected that she will do algebra. If one looks only at her deafness, and not her DS in placement, then she will be expected to do the same work expected of all students. That is why it is not appropriate to place her in a deaf school just because she is deaf if she cannot function at the same intellectual level as her peers.

Just curious...how much experience do you have in placement decisions and deaf ed? What exactly do you know about the deaf ed classroom?

 

[jillio]

If the school is unable to provide the resources needed for the student, then it's not a good environment for the student to be in.

Exactly. What is so hard about that to grasp?

 

[deafdyke]

Are mentally retarded deaf excluded from the Deaf community? haven't we seen pages and pages about socialization? community? neglect? I'm not saying this school should take the girl if they can't meet her needs, but who's fighting for her?

No. This is about academics! Many mild MR kids can and do fit in academicly early on, like in elementary school (even in the mainstream) but later on it's a lot harder to include them in a regular classroom since most of them can only function on an elementary school level.
Yes, many if not most deaf schools offer special needs programming for students with intellectucal or other disabilties. I think even moderate MR kids could be served somewhat at a deaf school, especially if there is a MH program.
But kids who fall below mild MR with their functioning would be better off in a severe MH program. Exactly like the Children's Center for Communication at Beverely School for the Deaf: Children's Center for Communication (CCC) Programs

 

[jillio]

No. This is about academics! Many mild MR kids can and do fit in academicly early on, like in elementary school (even in the mainstream) but later on it's a lot harder to include them in a regular classroom since most of them can only function on an elementary school level.
Yes, many if not most deaf schools offer special needs programming for students with intellectucal or other disabilties. I think even moderate MR kids could be served somewhat at a deaf school, especially if there is a MH program.
But kids who fall below mild MR with their functioning would be better off in a severe MH program. Exactly like the Children's Center for Communication at Beverely School for the Deaf: Children's Center for Communication (CCC) Programs

Like I said, she is forming opinion based on emotion and lack of understanding rather than on logic and understanding.

 

[Buffalo]

In the first grade (back in '60s), there was a girl (not down's syndrome) who has almost severe MR in my class. Yes, looking back... she shouldn't be in my class but I did learn that there are different people out there. I also learned to be patient with those kind of people. She was in my class for 1 or 2 years. I didn't see her again until I was in high school. I saw her in the hospital lobby. Either I had changed or she had gotten much worse because she didn't answer my questions.

At St. Rita, there is a special program for students like that. In my opinion, it is better that way.

The supervisor noticed that those kind of people responded to me so she put two of them in my team when we had to clean the school for the coming Open House or washing cars to raise funds.

 

[jillio]

In the first grade (back in '60s), there was a girl (not down's syndrome) who has almost severe MR in my class. Yes, looking back... she shouldn't be in my class but I did learn that there are different people out there. I also learned to be patient with those kind of people. She was in my class for 1 or 2 years. I didn't see her again until I was in high school. I saw her in the hospital lobby. Either I had changed or she had gotten much worse because she didn't answer my questions.

At St. Rita, there is a special program for students like that. In my opinion, it is better that way.

The supervisor noticed that those kind of people responded to me so she put two of them in my team when we had to clean the school for the coming Open House or washing cars to raise funds.

Agreed. And no doubt St. Rita, or any other school that had the resources, would not have denied placement. However, we don't even know what school denied placement for this girl. It could have been a very small charter school with only 15-25 students total that is barely able to cover the costs of the programs they have.

 

[CSign]

The school in question does have the resources available on site.

This child uses signs expressively, and at this point she has about 120 signs that she uses consistently. As most children with Down Syndrome, her receptive language is higher than her expressive language.

The school based their denial on the fact that they didn't see the student expressively communicate enough, and that they felt student would need a 1:1 aide. The student was observed for at the most, 1 hour and student was not their usual self because they noticed the strangers in the classroom.

This student is profoundly deaf and receives no auditory benefit. The other placements available are not equipped to meet her needs as a deaf student. This child needs to be immersed in an environment that utilizes ASL on a consistent basis in order to continue progressing.

The school claimed they did a lengthy observation- not sure where they get their definitions from, but one hour one time does not constitute lengthy. Moreover, the fact that this child has DS does not change the fact that student is deaf, and has the right to access the curriculum and social settings.

 

[CSign]

When a child has more than one issue going on, everything must be addressed. If this child is deaf AND has Downs Syndrome then it WAS appropriate to turn down the placement at the Deaf school. It is likely that he/she will be placed in a situation where ALL her/his needs will be addressed. Like Jillio said, many times sign language is "built in" to these programs for the multi-disabled child.

How would "all her needs be met" if she is in a TC environment where the students are using their voice rather than signs?

 

[CSign]

What you a failing to understand is that these programs are equipped to deal with the deaf, multi-disabled child.

Um... I'm failing to understand your point.
Do you mean they are not equipped? Actually, they are.

 

[jillio]

The school in question does have the resources available on site.

This child uses signs expressively, and at this point she has about 120 signs that she uses consistently. As most children with Down Syndrome, her receptive language is higher than her expressive language.

The school based their denial on the fact that they didn't see the student expressively communicate enough, and that they felt student would need a 1:1 aide. The student was observed for at the most, 1 hour and student was not their usual self because they noticed the strangers in the classroom.

This student is profoundly deaf and receives no auditory benefit. The other placements available are not equipped to meet her needs as a deaf student. This child needs to be immersed in an environment that utilizes ASL on a consistent basis in order to continue progressing.

The school claimed they did a lengthy observation- not sure where they get their definitions from, but one hour one time does not constitute lengthy. Moreover, the fact that this child has DS does not change the fact that student is deaf, and has the right to access the curriculum and social settings.

There you go. They denied based on the fact that according to her functional levels they did not have the resources or the program in place to accommodate her. They referred back to the home district, who is legally responsible for that accommodation. They have followed protocol. They did not automatically deny based on her DS, as was claimed originally.

The rest is nothing more than someone on the outside second guessing those that are trained and educated to make placement decisions, and are capable of weighing all factors that go into the decision.

 

[CSign]

There you go. They denied based on the fact that according to her functional levels they did not have the resources or the program in place to accommodate her. They referred back to the home district, who is legally responsible for that accommodation. They have followed protocol. They did not automatically deny based on her DS, as was claimed originally.

The rest is nothing more than someone on the outside second guessing those that are trained and educated to make placement decisions, and are capable of weighing all factors that go into the decision.

I think you may have missed what I wrote. They do have a placement that would be appropriate, and they did not conduct a thorough evaluation. They observed her for one hour.

Also, they were out of compliance with the education codes re admission process.

 

[inmate23]

The school in question does have the resources available on site.

This child uses signs expressively, and at this point she has about 120 signs that she uses consistently. As most children with Down Syndrome, her receptive language is higher than her expressive language.

The school based their denial on the fact that they didn't see the student expressively communicate enough, and that they felt student would need a 1:1 aide.

Could there be IEP or something put in place (im avoiding using the word therapy) where the Deaf school says we this many signs expressively about topics x and y

The school claimed they did a lengthy observation- not sure where they get their definitions from, but one hour one time does not constitute lengthy. Moreover, the fact that this child has DS does not change the fact that student is deaf, and has the right to access the curriculum and social settings.

and they did not conduct a thorough evaluation. They observed her for one hour.

Also, they were out of compliance with the education codes re admission process.

Ok start the appeals process saying that 1 hour is not thorough.and pointing out they were out of code for the admission process

 

[jillio]

I think you may have missed what I wrote. They do have a placement that would be appropriate, and they did not conduct a thorough evaluation. They observed her for one hour.

Also, they were out of compliance with the education codes re admission process.

According to you, they have a placement that would be appropriate. According to them, after observation of her functional levels and review of the information, they do not.

What codes were they out of compliance with, exactly?

Just curious, what is your background and experience in the field of deaf ed? Or the field of special ed, either one?

Why do you think their evaluation was incomplete. What was left out?

 

[CSign]

According to you, they have a placement that would be appropriate. According to them, after observation of her functional levels and review of the information, they do not.

What codes were they out of compliance with, exactly?

Just curious, what is your background and experience in the field of deaf ed? Or the field of special ed, either one?

Why do you think their evaluation was incomplete. What was left out?

So you believe that a one hour observation of a student who was not feeling well that day would be a thorough or "lengthy" observation?

 

[shel90]

Csign, you said the school did a lengthy observation? Maybe they did other observations besides the one hour observation that you know of? Are there children with mental retardation currently enrolled in the advil?