Oral school

[faire_jour]

Learning English as a second language poses a whole lotta problems! For example, how to you explain to an ASL signing 5 year old "is" and "are"? How about the difference between "the" and "a"? There are lots of differences between the grammar of ASL and English.

 

[faire_jour]

Seems like a lot of people here don't put speech skills in a high priority or at least not enough to worry about it for a child in a deaf school..... or am I wrong?

I think they will pay "lip service" to spoken language, but no, I do not think it is valued. I think there should be 3 branches of focus for a deaf child, they should be of equal importance:

1. ASL
2. Writing and Reading English
3. Speech and listening

But, I am not in the majority here.

 

[darkage]

No risk .....what about English?

In 1960's, I grew up in Oral School. WORST EDUCATION, VERY POOR ENGLISH, and LACK OF COMMUNICATION. I do not know many words mean.

After 1970's, I went to deaf school. Big improve communcation skill. Still difficult to make perfect english. I blame oral school.

I wonder...... If, I stay in oral school for all my life. Never learn sign language. What happen to me and my life? How is my english or communication skill? Maybe, I will never understand TV with CC.

 

[darkage]

3. Speech and listening

Sorry, I can't listen because I am very profound deaf. Use my eye to see his/her lip.

 

[faire_jour]

Sorry, I can't listen because I am very profound deaf. Use my eye to see his/her lip.

But, some kids can. My daughter does.

 

[Cheri]

Sorry, I can't listen because I am very profound deaf. Use my eye to see his/her lip.

It all depends on the deaf individual, there's no deaf like another deaf, every deaf person has different amounts of hearing loss.

Just remember hun, Each person has a different learning style, even hearing peers, You know there are a lot of hearing students who cannot read or write, it doesn't mean speech was an issue for them.

The best thing for parents to do is evaluate the educational setting and choose wisely because they have to meet the needs of their children.

 

[Cheri]

I think there should be 3 branches of focus for a deaf child, they should be of equal importance:

1. ASL
2. Writing and Reading English
3. Speech and listening

But, I am not in the majority here.

I agree with the 3 branches of focus also, but not just ASL, any signing method.

 

[loml]

In 1960's, I grew up in Oral School. WORST EDUCATION, VERY POOR ENGLISH, and LACK OF COMMUNICATION. I do not know many words mean.

After 1970's, I went to deaf school. Big improve communcation skill. Still difficult to make perfect english. I blame oral school.

I wonder...... If, I stay in oral school for all my life. Never learn sign language. What happen to me and my life? How is my english or communication skill? Maybe, I will never understand TV with CC.

I understand what you are saying. I am not talking about oral only education/school when I talk about English literacy.

 

[faire_jour]

I agree with the 3 branches of focus also, but not just ASL, any signing method.

But, the question is, do Bi-bi schools put equal focus on all 3? I don't think most do. I know my daughter's doesn't.

 

[deafdyke]

But, the question is, do Bi-bi schools put equal focus on all 3? I don't think most do. I know my daughter's doesn't.

Faire joure......the question is are they that way b/c they are anti spoken English, or b/c they tend to be small or public and not have the abilty to attract talented speech therapists?

 

[deafdyke]

You know..........maybe a good idea would be to create a partnership between Deaf Schools and sources of good speech therapists.

 

[shel90]

No risk? What about speech, it's not rarely use in the classroom setting.

What if the kid cant understand speech and it is used in the classroom and the kids cant understand anything being taught?

That's why there are speech classes for those who have good speech skills. How many times does that have to be repeated?

 

[shel90]

But, the question is, do Bi-bi schools put equal focus on all 3? I don't think most do. I know my daughter's doesn't.

But as long as the kids are getting the knowledge, literacy skills and the education they deserve, it doesnt seem enough for some of you.

 

[shel90]

Faire joure......the question is are they that way b/c they are anti spoken English, or b/c they tend to be small or public and not have the abilty to attract talented speech therapists?

Anti spoken English? It is about equal access to language, information, and education...if some kids can lipread well but some dont , how does a teacher teach an effective lesson with a distorted model of both languages? Keep both languages separate and the only language fully accessible to all children is ASL. It is not about some kids getting more access to the curriculm than others simply because they have speech skills. That's denying some kids rights to the same access and many good programs wouldnt do that to any child.

It is about access to education! If the kids have good speech, they are getting services for those!

Speech does not equate to good education.

 

[shel90]

Seems like a lot of people here don't put speech skills in a high priority or at least not enough to worry about it for a child in a deaf school..... or am I wrong?

If the child doesnt have access to education then what good does speech do?

Children in deaf schools have speech services. Speech is NOT a part of the teaching curriculm...Math, Language Arts, Science and Social Studies are.

If it was, then hearing kids at public schools will require to have ASL used in the curriculm.

 

[shel90]

Learning English as a second language poses a whole lotta problems! For example, how to you explain to an ASL signing 5 year old "is" and "are"? How about the difference between "the" and "a"? There are lots of differences between the grammar of ASL and English.

U are incorrect in your thinking. U really need to visit several other programs and see how it is being done. The Learning Center in Boston has a great program for teaching English to their students...


My 4th graders use those articles in their writing with no problem. Many of you do not see what is being done in the classrooms and make so many incorrect speculations.

 

[darkage]

I never forget what happen at NTID/RIT.
About 25 deaf (no matter how much percent loss hearing) students took social class at general study in RIT. Our hearing teacher knows sign lauguage. The deaf girl had hard time with teacher's lip in class room. We were very tired of deaf girl asked many "please repeat" teacher's say because missed lip reading. We know that girl has skill in sign language. She rather to depend on lip read.

She had fail or poor grade in class at RIT. After quarter, we never see her around on campus. She came from mainsteam school.

I understand what you are saying. I am not talking about oral only education/school when I talk about English literacy.

I looked at title of this forum. They showed "Oral School". No matter which part of courses.
We suppose to debate on education program at oral or deaf school. Which is better benefit at deaf school vs oral school vs mainsteam school with any handicapped program

 

[Frisky Feline]

Long live asl!

 

[shel90]

Just so I get a better picture of how deaf people think of schools here in AD:

There are always exceptions to the rule, but I am talking generally..
Mainstream: High risk of lack of social interaction, some risk of education delays due to not being able to understand everything.
Oral School: High risk of education delays due to both not able to understand everything and strong focus on speech.
Deaf School (uses ASL): No risk.

Is that more or less the general consensus?

It is like asking this about hearing kids....

Is using English a risk for hearing kids in the public schools?

That's the logic being used whenever this kind of question gets asked.


ASL is NOT a teaching tool. It is a language and worldwide there are different languages being used for instruction.

In France, French would be the language of instruction...not a teaching tool.

In China, Chinese would be the language of instruction...not a teaching tool.

And so on...

Are those children put at risks by all these languages?

If not, then the same goes for Deaf children with ASL.

Just because ASL is in a visual mode doesnt mean it deserves less respect than spoken language.

A majority of deaf children do not have full access to spoken language due do not being able to hear like their hearing counterparts but they have vision and that's where ASL comes in. Every deaf child has the right to full access to their education and I dont believe in partial or none. Maybe some of u do, so that would mean we have different priorities when it comes to education.

What are teaching tools? teaching tools are different methods of teaching to meet a diverse group of learners.

SEE is a teaching tool
CS is a teaching tool
MVP is a teaching tool
Whole language instruction is a teaching tool
Speech is a teaching tool
Phonics is a teaching tool
Sim-Com is a teaching tool (a poor attempt since it distortes both languages)
Visual Phonics is a teaching tool


Philosophies are the guidlines and beliefs set forth in educational programs...what are they? Here are they

TC is a philosophy
Oralacy is a philosophy
BiBi is a philosophy
and here are many more...

Aristotelianism · Averroism · Avicennism · Critical theory · Cynicism · Deconstructionism · Deontology · Dialectical materialism · Dualism · Egoism · Epicureanism · Epiphenomenalism · Existentialism · Feminist · Functionalism · Hedonism · Hegelianism · Hermeneutics · Humanism · Idealism · Kantianism · Kyoto School · Individualism · Logical positivism · Marxism · Materialism · Monism · Naturalism · Neoplatonism · New Philosophers · Nihilism · Ordinary language · Particularism · Peripatetic · Phenomenology · Platonism · Positivism · Posthumanism · Postmodernism · Poststructuralism · Pragmatism · Presocratic · Process · Solipsism · Realism · Relativism · Scholasticism · Skepticism · Stoicism · Structuralism · Thomism · Utilitarianism


Again...ASL is NOT a teaching tool...it is a language used for instruction so all children of varying hearing losses have the opportunity to full acess to the curriculm.

 

[Daredevel7]

It is like asking this about hearing kids....

Is using English a risk for hearing kids in the public schools?

That's the logic being used whenever this kind of question gets asked.

But you didn't give options to compare English. Why not also ask "Is using Spanish/Chinese a risk for hearing kids in American public schools compared to English?"

Everything has a risk. It just seems like a lot of people in AD give me the idea that going to a deaf school has absolutely no risk at all. That is the ONLY thing any parent should do to "play it safe".