Oral Deaf Education Schools of today

This thread is stirring up some old emotions.

Rick...how do u really know if your daughter and her friends are really happy and well adjusted? I fooled so many people in my family by keeping my true feelings to myself cuz I didnt recognize them. So in my early 20s, I appeared to be happy and well adjusted..went to college, got a college softball scholarship, had jobs since I was 15 years old, bought my own car and paid for my own insurance while in high school, and involved with different activities. Yes, I enjoyed them but inside, my anger and some other crazy emotions just kept building up and up. At the time I didnt recognize them. Later on, I started obsessing about my weight cuz I figured if I was thin and beautiful, people would like me and not pay attention to my deafness. That lead to a mild eating disorder which luckily I got under control. My 20s were a terrible time for me but nobody knew.They all thought I was happy and in love. I married at 21 and everyone thought my ex and I were the perfect couple but I really wasnt ready to love someone else. Why? I didnt love myself at the time so how could I give love to others? Yes, my marriage failed.

Now, I finally recognized what was eating me up inside and have sought therapy and worked them out. I am a lot better but whenever I go back to a non signing environment again like with my current husband's family or his work, my anxiety level shoots up like a rocket. Just all those old feelings come back. It is very hard when that happens but I am able to recognize them and work them thru.

I have met so many other deaf people who grew up like me who have battled with the same anxiety, fears, and insecurities. I guess everyone is different but I really dont want more deaf children grow up with all those issues like my friends and I did. I just want parents to be aware that the child can keep it all in. I am just happy to read that many of the parents here are involved with the deaf community, learning sign language and is very aware of the issues that their deaf children could face growing up.
 
Rick,
your daughter's experiance was probaly b/c you were able to take advantage of the resources of the NYC metropolition area. Also, she got to have exposure to other dhh kids. Most dhh/classicly disabled kids don't really get to take advantage of stuff like that. We are just put in the mainstream to sink or swim, and generally we don't have the resources that you had for your daughter.
I am not one of those Deafies who totally bashes oral speech. I think oral skills are an awesome thing to have! I just disagree with the "experts" who think that just b/c we have semi decent hearing and speech, we don't need ASL or deaf culture. After all.......why should we dhh kids be stuck in an eternal speech therapy session? Also, if the full toolbox approach was pushed as "WOW.....your child can be BILINGAL," there'd be a lot more parents, who would chose a full toolbox approach! About the only reason why a lot of parents dismiss Sign and Deaf culture as an option or a choice is b/c it's got the stigma of being "speshal needs"

Sure many dhh kids raised orally do OK.......but they could do even better with an additional tool maybe! It's a great icebreaker socially......every hearing person thinks Sign is wicked cool (and trust me, MANY dhh kids have extreme social difficulties!) and it gets rid of the frusration of not understanding or other situtions where oral speech isn't that useful.
That's all I'm saying.
And yes, I know that some other methodologies may paint themselves as the "perfect" choice......but oral only seems to do that to an extreme....Like they imply that your child will magically blend in with the hearing world b/c of speech and aural training. They also really advertise/push the fact that they aren't "special needs"
Oh, and I agree with shel90.......a lot of dhh/classicly disabled kids can "fake it" pretty well. I know I did, I know many mainstreamed formally oral kids who did so. Not saying that there aren't kids who are perfectly happy being totally in the hearing world, with no exposure to the deaf world.....Just saying that it's very easy for dhh kids to make hearing parents think they are happy and sucessful.
Oh, and I know there are a lot of people who are glad that they got their dhh kids orally trained......but are there any out there whose kids learned ASL as a second language (like as a teen or young adult) and who say they should have done both?
 
shel90 said:
I have met so many other deaf people who grew up like me who have battled with the same anxiety, fears, and insecurities. I guess everyone is different but I really dont want more deaf children grow up with all those issues like my friends and I did. I just want parents to be aware that the child can keep it all in. I am just happy to read that many of the parents here are involved with the deaf community, learning sign language and is very aware of the issues that their deaf children could face growing up.
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Good points Shel! I think that all parents need to be aware that as deaf people we have more on our plate and so there needs to be an extra sensitivity in relation to feelings in deaf children.

At the end of the day what it's really about is having deaf friends and role models and involvement in deaf activities etc. The actual mode of communication doesn't appear to matter that much because from what we know from research mental health problems occur in signers just as much as in those raised orally.
 
shel90, dd, and R2D2--Couldn't have said it better my self!:h5: Simply because an individual has managed to achieve a degree of success academically and carries out all of the usual functions of day to day living does not mean that they haven't suffered negative consequences involving self esteem and self worth. Far too often, this results in a pattern of choices that don't cause problems severe enough to be taken seriously for many years.

You are right rick, we both have kids who are 20 and sophomores in college. I attribute my son's seemingly well adjusted attitude to the fact that he was involved with other deaf, had Deaf adult role models, and therefore was able to understand from an early age that he wasn't alone. However, that does not mean that he did not experience feelings of isolation and exclusion when interacting with the hearing world. Even in my own home, which was as Deaf an environment as the home of a hearing parent can be, I'm sure that he was always aware that I was hearing and he was Deaf. In fact, when he was 5, I saw him sign to another child, "Mommy, mine, deaf." When I later asked him why he thought I was deaf, he said "Sign." I explained to him that, yes, I could sign, but I was hearing, and had learned sign to be able to talk with him. He was FURIOUS with me! Refused to talk with me for a couple of hours. That in and of itself, is an indication that once he realized that I wasn't deaf, the difference between us became a conscious consideration for him. That's not to say that we don't have a very close relationship, or that he has ever expressed any resentment or anger toward me because of it, and I give credit to the fact that I did learn sign for that. But, still, he had to be aware of the difference, and react to it in subtle, unconscious ways. We have a loving familial relationship, but we don't have the sameness of experience that he has with his Deaf friends. That sameness of expreience is what mitigates the feelings of isolation.

Hearing children in their teen aged years tell their hearing parents all the time: "You just don't understand me!" For the deaf teenager of hearing parents, that statement holds twice the impact, as we hearing parents have been teenagers and understand the turmoil of these years. However, we have not been Deaf teenagers, and therefore, we do not understand the unigue way in which they experience that turmoil.
 
Simply because an individual has managed to achieve a degree of success academically and carries out all of the usual functions of day to day living does not mean that they haven't suffered negative consequences involving self esteem and self worth.
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Thanks Jillo!
It also doesn't mean that it's a good choice over all.
 
This is a very interesting thread! My daughter is in middle school--has a severe hearing loss and does well with hearing aids--considers herself HOH. From the very beginning, we were told that she has a "significant hearing loss but is not profoundly deaf." So where does that leave us? We gave her hearing aids and talked to her---and she began to pick up oral language. She hears very well with her hearing aids, and her speech developed, slowly but surely. She is an extremely talkative teenager--she is outgoing and friendly. However, she was diagnosed with a learning disabilty in 2nd grade and has struggled academically. We did what we thought was right--public schools with lots of resource. She has always been the only hearing-impaired student in her school---that is becoming a problem as she gets older.

AG Bell--in some ways a wonderful resource, in others ways--not so much. My daughter is exactly who she should be--she loves to hear with her hearing aids, she loves to talk. She never seemed to need any other communication tools---she doesn't rely on lip reading, she doesn't know sign--she communicates orally just fine. AG Bell was very helpful in supporting us in that way--my daughter was born with a hearing loss but was obviously born to be a hearing/speaking child. That is who she is--we provided her with the tools she needed (hearing aids, speech therapy, etc.)--but she chose to listen and speak--there was no anger, no punishment, simply encouragement and love given to her. Quite simply, I loved her and spoke to her about the world, she listened and responded. Definitely the right choice for her--no regrets.

The negative: I would say that the number one issue would be the lack of community--the "oral deaf" community could learn a LOT from the "Deaf community" about this! Yes, we have conventions and workshops--always educational resources about "teaching deaf kids to talk." That's fine--parents with newly diagnosed kids need that resource. However, I am finding a severe lack of resources for simply socializing with others in the "oral deaf" community. We just aren't connecting as well as the "Deaf community."

I see tons of great things on the internet--Deaf awareness days, Deaf coffee chats, Deaf dinners--lots of great social interaction. I am assuming that at many of these social gatherings, ASL is the dominating language. That's great, but for the "oral deaf" who don't know ASL, it would be tough to communicate and socialize. But I don't see very many social gatherings among the "oral deaf" community. Truth is, I think I figured it out--the object is to blend in with the "real world". Socializing with only the "oral deaf" community isn't really encouraged. So my daughter is missing out--she doesn't know any other "oral deaf" teens, and if she met teens in the Deaf community, she couldn't communicate using ASL. She just doesn't fit in anywhere, does she? And what is more important to a teenager than fitting in? She feels "different" and wants to meet others "like her"--but where should she go to meet them?
 
Deborah said:
This is a very interesting thread! My daughter is in middle school--has a severe hearing loss and does well with hearing aids--considers herself HOH. From the very beginning, we were told that she has a "significant hearing loss but is not profoundly deaf." So where does that leave us? We gave her hearing aids and talked to her---and she began to pick up oral language. She hears very well with her hearing aids, and her speech developed, slowly but surely. She is an extremely talkative teenager--she is outgoing and friendly. However, she was diagnosed with a learning disabilty in 2nd grade and has struggled academically. We did what we thought was right--public schools with lots of resource. She has always been the only hearing-impaired student in her school---that is becoming a problem as she gets older.

AG Bell--in some ways a wonderful resource, in others ways--not so much. My daughter is exactly who she should be--she loves to hear with her hearing aids, she loves to talk. She never seemed to need any other communication tools---she doesn't rely on lip reading, she doesn't know sign--she communicates orally just fine. AG Bell was very helpful in supporting us in that way--my daughter was born with a hearing loss but was obviously born to be a hearing/speaking child. That is who she is--we provided her with the tools she needed (hearing aids, speech therapy, etc.)--but she chose to listen and speak--there was no anger, no punishment, simply encouragement and love given to her. Quite simply, I loved her and spoke to her about the world, she listened and responded. Definitely the right choice for her--no regrets.

The negative: I would say that the number one issue would be the lack of community--the "oral deaf" community could learn a LOT from the "Deaf community" about this! Yes, we have conventions and workshops--always educational resources about "teaching deaf kids to talk." That's fine--parents with newly diagnosed kids need that resource. However, I am finding a severe lack of resources for simply socializing with others in the "oral deaf" community. We just aren't connecting as well as the "Deaf community."

I see tons of great things on the internet--Deaf awareness days, Deaf coffee chats, Deaf dinners--lots of great social interaction. I am assuming that at many of these social gatherings, ASL is the dominating language. That's great, but for the "oral deaf" who don't know ASL, it would be tough to communicate and socialize. But I don't see very many social gatherings among the "oral deaf" community. Truth is, I think I figured it out--the object is to blend in with the "real world". Socializing with only the "oral deaf" community isn't really encouraged. So my daughter is missing out--she doesn't know any other "oral deaf" teens, and if she met teens in the Deaf community, she couldn't communicate using ASL. She just doesn't fit in anywhere, does she? And what is more important to a teenager than fitting in? She feels "different" and wants to meet others "like her"--but where should she go to meet them?
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When I was in middle school, I refused to learn ASL cuz I felt I didnt need it. I didnt fit in with the hearing nor the deaf world. I always held out hope that I would fit in with my hearing peers...never happened...not even into my adulthood.

As an adult, I learned ASL at college and I regret not learning it when I was offered the opportunity as a child. My loss but now I use ASL daily.

That is something for you and your daughter to figure out. If u want my opinion, I feel that it would be great if she can learn ASL and be bilingual. Does your daughter feel embarassed about learning ASL?

My mom thought the same thing about me not needing ASL but boy she was wrong...I was dying inside to find the connection somewhere..I thank my lucky stars that I learned ASL. It changed my life for the better.

I hope your daughter finds a community where she can fit in but I think it will have to be with hearing people since she doesnt know ASL unless u find a large "oral" deaf community in your town.
 
Deborah said:
This is a very interesting thread! My daughter is in middle school--has a severe hearing loss and does well with hearing aids--considers herself HOH. From the very beginning, we were told that she has a "significant hearing loss but is not profoundly deaf." So where does that leave us? We gave her hearing aids and talked to her---and she began to pick up oral language. She hears very well with her hearing aids, and her speech developed, slowly but surely. She is an extremely talkative teenager--she is outgoing and friendly. However, she was diagnosed with a learning disabilty in 2nd grade and has struggled academically. We did what we thought was right--public schools with lots of resource. She has always been the only hearing-impaired student in her school---that is becoming a problem as she gets older.

AG Bell--in some ways a wonderful resource, in others ways--not so much. My daughter is exactly who she should be--she loves to hear with her hearing aids, she loves to talk. She never seemed to need any other communication tools---she doesn't rely on lip reading, she doesn't know sign--she communicates orally just fine. AG Bell was very helpful in supporting us in that way--my daughter was born with a hearing loss but was obviously born to be a hearing/speaking child. That is who she is--we provided her with the tools she needed (hearing aids, speech therapy, etc.)--but she chose to listen and speak--there was no anger, no punishment, simply encouragement and love given to her. Quite simply, I loved her and spoke to her about the world, she listened and responded. Definitely the right choice for her--no regrets.

The negative: I would say that the number one issue would be the lack of community--the "oral deaf" community could learn a LOT from the "Deaf community" about this! Yes, we have conventions and workshops--always educational resources about "teaching deaf kids to talk." That's fine--parents with newly diagnosed kids need that resource. However, I am finding a severe lack of resources for simply socializing with others in the "oral deaf" community. We just aren't connecting as well as the "Deaf community."

I see tons of great things on the internet--Deaf awareness days, Deaf coffee chats, Deaf dinners--lots of great social interaction. I am assuming that at many of these social gatherings, ASL is the dominating language. That's great, but for the "oral deaf" who don't know ASL, it would be tough to communicate and socialize. But I don't see very many social gatherings among the "oral deaf" community. Truth is, I think I figured it out--the object is to blend in with the "real world". Socializing with only the "oral deaf" community isn't really encouraged. So my daughter is missing out--she doesn't know any other "oral deaf" teens, and if she met teens in the Deaf community, she couldn't communicate using ASL. She just doesn't fit in anywhere, does she? And what is more important to a teenager than fitting in? She feels "different" and wants to meet others "like her"--but where should she go to meet them?
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My son as well, has great oral skills and can float between oral, PSE, and ASL. But he never was not able to develop a true identity without exposure to the Deaf community. His preference is ASL--however, he would not have discovered what his preference was without being exposed to it. I think exposure to a full toolbox, as DD puts it, is mandatory. How does a child find out where they fit in and where they are comfortable unless htey are exposed to alternatives?
 
Deborah, Welcome! I am glad to see that you found your way here.

Just curious. Why is it ok to tell a hearing parent that they should let the deaf child grow up and make the choice of whether or not they want a CI, After all, many here say that is the choice of the child right? If that is the case, why is a hearing parent of a deaf/HOH child being pressured into teaching the child sign?
That doesnt sound quite right to me? A choice of a child is encouraged in one case, but when the child says they dont want to learn sign, you pressure the parent to do other than what the child wants?
 
Different Answers for Different Ages and Stages

Lily's Dad,

I just wanted to encourage you to enjoy that wonderful support system in St. Louis! We used to live there--I am originally from St. Louis, and we lived there when my daughter was in preschool at St. Joseph's. We LOVED the atmosphere of being with other families in the "same boat." Actually, there just seemed to be a huge support system during the preschool stage--more than in other stages. We moved to Atlanta and have lived here for all of my daughter's school years so far. ZERO support system here, and at these ages and stages--we truly feel all alone as far as oral deaf issues are concerned.

We are ready to move soon--determined to find the best place for her high school years. Problem is, we have no idea where that would be--no oral schools have high school programs, and we're not sure if she would do well in a traditional school for the deaf. As much as I want to think things would go well in a regular high school, her learning disability has caused her enough of a challenge to make me feel less confident about that. I just don't know what to do. The oral advocates say mainstream, the TC advocates say Deaf programs or school--but I have to make the choice based on what is the best match for my daughter--opinions and feelings have to be put aside, and the decision has to be made based on facts and figures. What type of learning environment would help her reach her fullest potential, what type of environment would be best for her socially, should she go off to boarding school (I just can't fathom that!) or should we move near whatever school best meets her needs--these are all questions that are gnawing at me day and night. I LOVE being a parent, but it sure is a tough job making these kind of decisions! I hope and pray that we make the right ones for her so that she can make the best decisions for herself once she reaches adulthood.

Well I just wanted to say that you need to soak in all of that support from CID--you will miss it terribly when you leave! Maybe you will have better luck finding the right place with a good support system than we did. We are trying very hard to find the answer for the next stage, then our daughter will have to make her own decisions about college and other life choices. Soon we will have to let her go into the world on her own--I just want to make sure that we have prepared her as much as possible.

From someone who is missing St. Louis an awful lot right now--Deborah
 
Lillys dad said:
Deborah, Welcome! I am glad to see that you found your way here.

Just curious. Why is it ok to tell a hearing parent that they should let the deaf child grow up and make the choice of whether or not they want a CI, After all, many here say that is the choice of the child right? If that is the case, why is a hearing parent of a deaf/HOH child being pressured into teaching the child sign?
That doesnt sound quite right to me? A choice of a child is encouraged in one case, but when the child says they dont want to learn sign, you pressure the parent to do other than what the child wants?
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What are u talking about? Are u referring to what I said to Deborah? If so, I am not pressuring her to teach her daughter sign language..just that in my opinion, it would be better if her daughter can learn ASL. Just telling Deborah about my experiences and how as a 13 year old, I thought I didnt need ASL but after learning it later, I realized that I did need it and probably would have benefited from ASL and socializing with other deaf people instead of being stubborn about trying to fit in with my hearing peers, that's all.

Also, I was curious why her daughter chose to speak instead of learning ASL.

As I stated before, when the child is small, I think it would be great to provide ASL and spoken English and so that way the child can have both to identify with and decide on which mode of communicate to use later on in life. It seems to me that most parents' priority is for the child to fit in the hearing world and dont really think about the child's identity and about how that child will identify himself/herself later on. In some cases, like mine, the child ends up trying so hard to fit in with his/her hearing peers and end up not being able to and then feeling like he/she doesnt fit in anywhere. I have seen that at my work with the older students when they are sent from the public schools due to not succeeding there. They come to our school with a whole set of emotional baggage ranging from depression, anger, and sadness. It pains me to see deaf children like that cuz it reminds me of myself at that age and how much suffering I had to go thru trying to be "hearing" just because I could read lips and speak well.

Last weekend, a group of us went to a dinner party for my friend. I finally met her date and he is hearing and doesnt know much ASL. My friend is culturally deaf and doesnt have speech skills so they have to work hard in communicating with each other. So when I was introduced to him I, of course, used my voice to communicate with him. He said he was impressed that I could speak well cuz everyone else at the party was deaf without any speech skills so he started jabbering away. I told him to hold his horses and that I did not understand a word he was saying and that he needs to look at me and speak clearly. He was shocked and u know what he said? "U speak so well so what do u mean u need to read my lips? U must hear pretty well right?" I told him that is always the same old problem that I have with hearing people in general...they seem to percieve that since I speak well, therefore I can hear almost like a hearing person. That is the problem with having good speech skills, it gives people the false sense of talking to me like I am hearing. It can get frustrating at times. As a child, I didnt understand that so when hearing people got the wrong assumption and speak to me like I am hearing, I would get very nervous about not understanding them so I would pretend to understand them. Sometimes, misunderstandings resulted and I would get scolded. Then, I would feel ashamed of myself for "failing" as a hearing person. Go figure! It was a vicous cycle..so I DONT want future deaf kids to go thru this! I want people to recognize that deaf kids are still deaf even though they can hear well with a CI, can speak well, or can lipread well.

Going back to Deborah..it seems that her and her daughter's minds are set about finding an "oral" deaf communication so I was honest about it...I dont think that there is one or at least a large one. It is either learn ASL and fit in with the deaf community or try to fit in with hearing people. It is her daughter's choice.

If there are other "oral" deaf kids in their community, then great!
 
Difference Between Deaf and Hard of Hearing

Just wanted to clarify--my daughter is NOT profoundly deaf, she is severely hard of hearing. She in no way qualifies for a CI--she has too much hearing, especially in the lower frequencies. So she has a LOT of residual hearing--I am often amazed at what she can hear, both unaided and aided.

In some ways she feels "hearing," in some ways she feels "deaf"--but she really is not "deaf OR Deaf". I guess Hard of Hearing is the best way to describe her hearing abilities. Here's the issue--she does have a challenging learning disability that interferes with her learning and academics. She really doesn't grasp that her academic challenges have more to do with her LD than her HI. She tends to blame "being deaf"--although she really isn't "deaf"--for her issues and challenges.

As for choosing oral vs. TC in the early days, it was a simple and obvious choice--with hearing aids, she could hear us---she listened intently--she pointed out sounds that she heard all the time. It was so precious, this little toddler pointing at her ear, then whatever made the sound, then back to her ear. SHE COULD HEAR!! That's an easy choice--no one would want to prevent her from hearing if the hearing aids made that much difference.

And soon after she "learned to listen," she began imitating sounds and learning to speak--just like HEARING kids do. They listen for a while, then they begin imitating---and so did my daughter. In her case, putting on hearing aids really was a lot like putting on glasses---blurry vision comes into focus, and quiet sounds became audible. I know many disagree with that analogy--probably because a profoundly deaf person often DOESN'T get much results with hearing aids. But someone who is NOT profoundly deaf often CAN hear with hearing aids, and hear very well!! Not perfect, but VERY well!! The most amazing thing is to see her not respond to something unaided, then see her respond to something much quieter aided--hearing aids really and truly work for her---she HEARS and HEARS WELL with them.

So that is why listening and speaking was an obvious choice--with hearing aids, she listened--then she began speaking. It was a natural process. For my daughter, a child who is NOT profoundly deaf, her NATURAL language was oral English. It is wrong to assume that because she has a hearing loss that her "natural language"would be ASL. NOT if you can hear with hearing aids and naturally begin imitating the sounds that you hear.

Anyway--we made the right choice for her, no doubt in my mind. She chose to listen and speak--with hearing aids, she heard--then she spoke. And her language developed rapidly from that point on.

So now, if she DOES learn ASL, it will be for social reasons. As far as "helping her learn," I see ASL as any other language--she has a learning disability that requires her to really focus on one language, her natural language--English. Learning Spanish, French, or any other language would not help her learn in English. Learning ASL will not help her learn in English. It can be a way for her to communicate with teens in the Deaf community--if she learns it, it will be for that reason. But some kids cannot concentrate on TWO languages at the same time--some learning disabilities prevent their minds from balancing the two things. Not all kids can be biligual--whether it be English and ASL, or English and Spanish. Some kids require all of their concentration to be focused on topic and in one language. She might have a hard time learing ASL to be fluent on a social level--learning new languages seems to be a big challenge for her.

I hope this explains things a bit more--she isn't "typical" or "textbook"--she is unique and has several issues to tackle at once. She just wants to meet others "like her"--but she doesn't realize how rare and unique she truly is. Hearing impairment is rare anyway, then break that down to hard of hearing and getting great use out of aids and being oral, add a learning disability, then break it down further to her age group, and still further for region/area we live in--that doesn't leave a very large group of people, does it? Maybe there ISN'T anyone else like her--but if she could find a few friends her age--even ONE for goodness sake--with similar issues and circumstances, her life would be a lot better. When she was in preschool in St. Louis, she had two friends like her--then we moved. I heard that those girls moved to other places as well. Sometimes I wonder if things would be better if we all had stayed and they grew up together, but we'll never know. I am willing to move again if it means finding the right academic and social situation for her. It's not easy raising kids, is it? But it sure is a wonderful blessing! :)
 
I was born with a biliteral mild hearing loss, which was discovered until I was three years old. At that time, the school I was attending was teaching me some sign language . My hearing family (parents, older sister and older brother) took two classes of sign language, then my mother decided that I did not need to know how to sign because my hearing loss is only mild. :( :pissed: I was placed in a general education school in first grade. I tried to intergrate with my hearing peers but I always felt that I was "different", particulary in middle school and high school. I learned ASL in my last semester of high school. It seemed like another world opened to me. I wanted to connect with people with hearing losses. I wished I was exposed to the Deaf World when I was a little girl. My older sister is expecting her fourth child in mid-March. If this baby is deaf or hard of hearing, I WILL expose him or her to ASL and the Deaf World.
 
Deborah, I left St.Louis 5 weeks after graduting high school. I went straight into the Army. When I left, I had my mind set that I was never coming back to St.Louis. Well, you see where I ended up. I came home for my family. I have a close family. At the time I was in the army, my sisters and I were scattered all over the the country (including Alaska). We all moved back home at about the same time. Anyway, after moving back here, the only advantages to st.louis was my family. After finsing out Lilly was deaf, and learning of the huge support we get here, I now have a reason (besides family) to be here. While here, did you have much involvement with st.louis county special school district? We actually have one of the best public deaf ed programs in the country. If I were you, I would seriously consider moving back here. SSD does thier deaf ed in brentwood high school. Depending on the seriousness of her LD, you could probably do some type of half day program thing. You know, deaf HOH ed for part of the day, and general ed classes with the hearing kids.
As far as my own support system, I am doing pretty good. My family moved into Webster Groves school district last year. Th eonly reason we did this was because of their reputation and quality of schools. At the same time we moved here, another CID family moved here. And a few months ago, another. All of us have become friends. We all help each other out and meet socially for us and the kids to play together. In fact, Lillys best friend is the deaf child of one of the families. The both have CI. We live less than a mile apart, and the chances are that they will go to the same school in the same grade. The other family has a deaf son that is about 6 months younger than Lilly. He also has a CI. Due to the fact that the school dist has 3 CI kids that may all be in the same grade, they will probably put them all together. Besides the support from the other families here. I have made friends from this web site that live local. One of them and I recently went to a first meeting of a Parents "Support group" for CI. This is goign to become a monthly meeting. While I absolutely hate the term "support group" I love the results. We talk to people that have the same situations, experiences, and learn from each other.
 
Deborah, I left St.Louis 5 weeks after graduting high school. I went straight into the Army. When I left, I had my mind set that I was never coming back to St.Louis. Well, you see where I ended up. I came home for my family. I have a close family. At the time I was in the army, my sisters and I were scattered all over the the country (including Alaska). We all moved back home at about the same time. Anyway, after moving back here, the only advantages to st.louis was my family. After finsing out Lilly was deaf, and learning of the huge support we get here, I now have a reason (besides family) to be here. While here, did you have much involvement with st.louis county special school district? We actually have one of the best public deaf ed programs in the country. If I were you, I would seriously consider moving back here. SSD does thier deaf ed in brentwood high school. Depending on the seriousness of her LD, you could probably do some type of half day program thing. You know, deaf HOH ed for part of the day, and general ed classes with the hearing kids.
As far as my own support system, I am doing pretty good. My family moved into Webster Groves school district last year. Th eonly reason we did this was because of their reputation and quality of schools. At the same time we moved here, another CID family moved here. And a few months ago, another. All of us have become friends. We all help each other out and meet socially for us and the kids to play together. In fact, Lillys best friend is the deaf child of one of the families. The both have CI. We live less than a mile apart, and the chances are that they will go to the same school in the same grade. The other family has a deaf son that is about 6 months younger than Lilly. He also has a CI. Due to the fact that the school dist has 3 CI kids that may all be in the same grade, they will probably put them all together. Besides the support from the other families here. I have made friends from this web site that live local. One of them and I recently went to a first meeting of a Parents "Support group" for CI. This is goign to become a monthly meeting. While I absolutely hate the term "support group" I love the results. We talk to people that have the same situations, experiences, and learn from each other.

Shel, as for the earlier comment, I was playing devils advocate.
 
It was VERY interesting to read about raising deaf children from the perspective of hearing parents. I wish you the best of luck, Lillys dad and Deborah.
 
As much as I want to think things would go well in a regular high school, her learning disability has caused her enough of a challenge to make me feel less confident about that. I just don't know what to do. The oral advocates say mainstream, the TC advocates say Deaf programs or school--but I have to make the choice based on what is the best match for my daughter--opinions and feelings have to be put aside, and the decision has to be made based on facts and figures. What type of learning environment would help her reach her fullest potential, what type of environment would be best for her socially, should she go off to boarding school (I just can't fathom that!) or should we move near whatever school best meets her needs--these are all questions that are gnawing at me day
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Hey Deborah.....if you don't mind what kind of LD does your daughter have?
Is it more academic style or ADD/Asperger's/non verbal Learning Disorder style? If it's the latter, it could be more that it isn't an actual "classic" LD, but more a symptom of an oral dhh kid, overworking to "hear and talk".....Yes, we dhh kids can hear and talk......but for a lot of us, it takes a LOT of energy. I know off the top of my head that it's very common to have ADDish dxs in an oral deaf classroom, but it's not as common in a traditional Deaf classroom. Also, check out her visual processing issues. I read recently that 60% of "LD" kids actually have a visual processing disorder. It's usually not picked up by visual screening tests in school......but if kids who have it take visual therapy, then the disorder is really improved. Let me see if I can't find the article about that.
Maybe too, her LD might have been misdx. Just hypotheizing here.....You say that she's always been the only dhh kid in her schools. Is she also one of a handful of kids with "classic" disabilities in her school? What I mean by "classic" is stuff like hearing, vision, wheelchair/walker/miselanous orthapedic device users......etc. One thing that "mainstream at all costs" advocates don't tell you is that it can be very hard to get approprate or good sped services. Most sped programs tend to be targeted towards the LD population.
Oh, and I don't think that the dhh/LD combo is THAT rare.
Second of all, it does sound like you chose oral speech as a default, thinking "oh she's doing fine orally. She really doesn't *need* sign. Not nessarily anti-Sign......(which is good)
Don't worry about her not being "deaf enough" .....there are quite a few hohers involved in the Deaf community.
Are there any self contained dhh programs or schools where there's a high percentage of dhh students near where you live?
Your daughter is getting older......she should be able to have a say what she wants in an education. She probaly doesn't know about alternative things like schools/programs especially FOR dhh kids. I know I didn't.
What about summer programs for dhh kids? I know that Gally has a program for dhh "oral" teens who want to learn Sign. Also I think NTID does too....and NTID is supposed to be "better" for orally skilled dhh kids.
I would contact your state's School for the Deaf, Association for the Deaf, and the American Society for Deaf Children (which is much better then AG Bell) See what resources etc there are. Yes, there are bad "deaf schools and programs".....but there are also some awesome deaf schools and programs out there!
I know you might be reluctant at the idear of sending her away to boarding school......but you know what? That can be an AWESOME experiance. Living away from home, being with friends, being with kids like her...It's sort of like a pre college program. I don't know how the Georgia School for the Deaf is.....but I think there's an Atlanta Area School for the Deaf, and your daughter might be eligable to go to Florida School for the Deaf and Blind (a really really good school) or Model Secondary School for the Deaf at Gally.
Parental attitude can help a lot. You could act all excited like " Hey guess what? We can learn a way for you to "talk" without your hearing aids!" You could also point out that it would be useful for those times when she can't "get" something, someone's saying......
Introduce her to other kids who use Sign....I know off the top of my head that most "oral" kids do eventually learn Sign as a second language.
 
deafdyke said:
Hey Deborah.....if you don't mind what kind of LD does your daughter have?
Is it more academic style or ADD/Asperger's/non verbal Learning Disorder style? If it's the latter, it could be more that it isn't an actual "classic" LD, but more a symptom of an oral dhh kid, overworking to "hear and talk".....Yes, we dhh kids can hear and talk......but for a lot of us, it takes a LOT of energy. I know off the top of my head that it's very common to have ADDish dxs in an oral deaf classroom, but it's not as common in a traditional Deaf classroom. Also, check out her visual processing issues. I read recently that 60% of "LD" kids actually have a visual processing disorder. It's usually not picked up by visual screening tests in school......but if kids who have it take visual therapy, then the disorder is really improved. Let me see if I can't find the article about that.
Maybe too, her LD might have been misdx. Just hypotheizing here.....You say that she's always been the only dhh kid in her schools. Is she also one of a handful of kids with "classic" disabilities in her school? What I mean by "classic" is stuff like hearing, vision, wheelchair/walker/miselanous orthapedic device users......etc. One thing that "mainstream at all costs" advocates don't tell you is that it can be very hard to get approprate or good sped services. Most sped programs tend to be targeted towards the LD population.
Oh, and I don't think that the dhh/LD combo is THAT rare.
Second of all, it does sound like you chose oral speech as a default, thinking "oh she's doing fine orally. She really doesn't *need* sign. Not nessarily anti-Sign......(which is good)
Don't worry about her not being "deaf enough" .....there are quite a few hohers involved in the Deaf community.
Are there any self contained dhh programs or schools where there's a high percentage of dhh students near where you live?
Your daughter is getting older......she should be able to have a say what she wants in an education. She probaly doesn't know about alternative things like schools/programs especially FOR dhh kids. I know I didn't.
What about summer programs for dhh kids? I know that Gally has a program for dhh "oral" teens who want to learn Sign. Also I think NTID does too....and NTID is supposed to be "better" for orally skilled dhh kids.
I would contact your state's School for the Deaf, Association for the Deaf, and the American Society for Deaf Children (which is much better then AG Bell) See what resources etc there are. Yes, there are bad "deaf schools and programs".....but there are also some awesome deaf schools and programs out there!
I know you might be reluctant at the idear of sending her away to boarding school......but you know what? That can be an AWESOME experiance. Living away from home, being with friends, being with kids like her...It's sort of like a pre college program. I don't know how the Georgia School for the Deaf is.....but I think there's an Atlanta Area School for the Deaf, and your daughter might be eligable to go to Florida School for the Deaf and Blind (a really really good school) or Model Secondary School for the Deaf at Gally.
Parental attitude can help a lot. You could act all excited like " Hey guess what? We can learn a way for you to "talk" without your hearing aids!" You could also point out that it would be useful for those times when she can't "get" something, someone's saying......
Introduce her to other kids who use Sign....I know off the top of my head that most "oral" kids do eventually learn Sign as a second language.
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:gpost:

Yea, I know so many deaf or HOH people who grew up oral and now use ASL either as their primary language or 2nd language. I know one HOH guy who lives here in DC who doesnt know ASL but he just told me he will take ASL classes in the spring semester cuz he is tired of feeling like an outsider around hearing people. He is 33 years old. Maybe by the time he is 40, he will be fluent in ASL..he has asked me for moral support since he is going thru a hard time now. I think he denied his deafness and now finally accepting that he will never fit in 100% in the hearing world so he is going thru some emotional process..like grief, anger, denial, and then acceptance. See what happens.
 
shel90 said:
This thread is stirring up some old emotions.

Rick...how do u really know if your daughter and her friends are really happy and well adjusted?
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I know my daughter is happy because we talk to each other. I know my daughter is happy because my wife and I are involved in her life. I know this may actually amaze some of you but sometimes a hearing parent and a deaf child can actually have a good parent/child relationship.
Rick
 
jillio said:
Simply because an individual has managed to achieve a degree of success academically and carries out all of the usual functions of day to day living does not mean that they haven't suffered negative consequences involving self esteem and self worth.
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However, sometimes a happy well adjusted oral deaf child is just that. In fact, given the above parameters you cite, that is the rule and not the exception. Why is that every post about successful oral deaf children must be followed by the obligatory posts predicting doom and gloom from events that have not been evident in thier lives?

Why not just celebrate the fact that children who took a different path then the one you chose for your child are doing well?
Rick
 
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