Explain this thought process, please.

On the other hand, national healthcare is handing the consumers more choices since they don't have to worry about purchasing insurance and focus on other things.

However it is taking away taxpayers' privileges to make impulsive decisions for themselves.
 
souggy said:
On the other hand, national healthcare is handing the consumers more choices since they don't have to worry about purchasing insurance and focus on other things.

However it is taking away taxpayers' privileges to make impulsive decisions for themselves.
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There you go!

I'm sure we will hear something about the "madatory" clause everyone is so hung up on. Actually, one can still choose not to have insurance. And they will have consequences to face when that choice is made, same as with all choices. They want choice without consequence. No such animal exists in this world.
 
Reba said:
Waste, fraud, and abuse in health care can be addressed without implementing Obamacare.
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Then let's address it. Why the delays? It would appear to be a bi-partisan effort to avoid dealing with it. It should be a priority for all those elected officials that don't want Obamacare. Why should they complain/block/defeat something without making the effort to improve the current system?
 
jillio said:
There you go!

I'm sure we will hear something about the "madatory" clause everyone is so hung up on. Actually, one can still choose not to have insurance. And they will have consequences to face when that choice is made, same as with all choices. They want choice without consequence. No such animal exists in this world.
Click to expand...

When I was unemployed, I didn't have to pay taxes. I wouldn't say "socialized" healthcare took away my choice as a consumer, but rather gave me more choices since I didn't have to budget for insurance, other than renters' insurance and I don't have a car. I was free to purchase things I wouldn't had been able to afford if I was paying for three or four different insurances.

However, as a taxpayer, universal healthcare does restrict how quickly I want to see my care improve since it's dependent on who I vote for, who they appoint as ministers and how I choose to express my dissent.
 
Reba said:
No, it's not. Obamacare is about taking away choice from consumers.
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yes that's my major beef. I hope the House will kill it.

Reba said:
Waste, fraud, and abuse in health care can be addressed without implementing Obamacare.
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we have tried and failed for past 30+ years and it's still causing us billions with no end at sight. Obamacare is finally a sweeping bill with Presidential backing to fix the problems as mentioned in your post.

jillio said:
Please explain to me exactly how Obamacare takes away choice. Choice for what?
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to opt out of it.
 
Jiro said:
yes that's my major beef. I hope the House will kill it.


we have tried and failed for past 30+ years and it's still causing us billions with no end at sight. Obamacare is finally a sweeping bill with Presidential backing to fix the problems as mentioned in your post.


to opt out of it.
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Nope. You have a choice to opt out. But you have consequences to making that choice. Same as with any other choice. If you are so opposed, then you should have the conviction necessary to face the consequences so that you will acting the same way that you talk.

(Again, the "you" is collective and generic)
 
jillio said:
Nope. You have a choice to opt out. But you have consequences to making that choice. Same as with any other choice. If you are so opposed, then you should have the conviction necessary to face the consequences so that you will acting the same way that you talk.

(Again, the "you" is collective and generic)
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Yes I can choose to opt out of it..... along with fines. Mandatory automobile insurance is one thing but mandatory health insurance? :nono:

However.... I would support a mandatory health insurance for children only.
 
Jiro said:
Yes I can choose to opt out of it..... along with fines. Mandatory automobile insurance is one thing but mandatory health insurance? :nono:

However.... I would support a mandatory health insurance for children only.
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But that is my point. You still have a choice. The only question is, how much are you willing to sacrifice and how important is the principle to you? If you aren't willing to pay the fines, then your conviction isn't very strong. Doesn't appear that you disagree with it at all as long as you have to stand by your complaint.

(Again, you in the collective)
 
Food for thought:

How much would history change if ALL voters are somehow required to know ALL the issues and stance of each candidate and each bill before voting? (Perhaps by a test before voting, a cliff note under each candidate/bill, mandatory reading about each candidate/bill before voting, etc. )
 
Daredevel7 said:
Food for thought:

How much would history change if ALL voters are somehow required to know ALL the issues and stance of each candidate and each bill before voting? (Perhaps by a test before voting, a cliff note under each candidate/bill, mandatory reading about each candidate/bill before voting, etc. )
Click to expand...

Sounds like a wonderful idea...... Could we start just by making sure people are actually registered and check to see that they are who they say they are. :)
 
Heh, it always seem that way to me that Americans like to make thing harder than needed to be, jillio. Maybe it was part of our culture for so long that we don't see it anymore. I think it's kinda sad.
 
Also, have anyone actually read The Universal Declaration of Human Rights? I think you will be surprised at what rights we are supposed to have... when our country signed to become a member of United Nation. Once signed, they are required to follow the rules set by The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which of course most countries doesn't follow. This includes...United States.

"(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

For example, this clearly we didn't follow, because not everyone had access to medical services. Since not everyone were granted a health care they needed for their well-being and health. Some were denied one, other couldn't even afford decent one, etc.
 
jillio said:
But that is my point. You still have a choice. The only question is, how much are you willing to sacrifice and how important is the principle to you? If you aren't willing to pay the fines, then your conviction isn't very strong. Doesn't appear that you disagree with it at all as long as you have to stand by your complaint.

(Again, you in the collective)
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Perhaps I should rephrase to say that it doesn't leave any legal choices available. Our government can remove legal choices from us, and thus leave as the only option law breaking.
 
TXgolfer said:
Sounds like a wonderful idea...... Could we start just by making sure people are actually registered and check to see that they are who they say they are. :)
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Sounds like a plan. :)
 
Daredevel7 said:
Food for thought:

How much would history change if ALL voters are somehow required to know ALL the issues and stance of each candidate and each bill before voting? (Perhaps by a test before voting, a cliff note under each candidate/bill, mandatory reading about each candidate/bill before voting, etc. )
Click to expand...
The problem is, in the past, such tests were used by white poll workers to keep out black voters. That left a bitter taste in the mouths of Americans who support equal voting rights.
 
Wirelessly posted

Daredevel7 said:
Food for thought:

How much would history change if ALL voters are somehow required to know ALL the issues and stance of each candidate and each bill before voting? (Perhaps by a test before voting, a cliff note under each candidate/bill, mandatory reading about each candidate/bill before voting, etc. )
Click to expand...

Every solutions begets new problems.
 
Reba said:
The problem is, in the past, such tests were used by white poll workers to keep out black voters. That left a bitter taste in the mouths of Americans who support equal voting rights.
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souggy said:
Wirelessly posted
Every solutions begets new problems.
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I agree. I don't think it's a solution for real life, unfortunately. However, I did say food for thought. Just something to think about. If the answer is "history would dramatically change", why? What makes us vote differently in those two scenarios 1) The way we do it now and 2) Properly informed voting?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Food for thought:

How much would history change if ALL voters are somehow required to know ALL the issues and stance of each candidate and each bill before voting? (Perhaps by a test before voting, a cliff note under each candidate/bill, mandatory reading about each candidate/bill before voting, etc. )
Click to expand...

I would say that it would change substantially. But also, it isn't just knowing the candidate and the bill. It is knowing how that will affect the current situation in terms of the way our system functions. I think many people THINK they are voting for something that will satisfy their goals, but they don't seem to understand how what it sounds like on the surface is not the way it will function in reality. End results are affected by other variables.
 
Reba said:
Perhaps I should rephrase to say that it doesn't leave any legal choices available. Our government can remove legal choices from us, and thus leave as the only option law breaking.
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It is still an option. Any form of government has legal restrictions. At least in the U.S. you would just get fined rather than shot at dawn.
 
Silentwolfdog said:
Heh, it always seem that way to me that Americans like to make thing harder than needed to be, jillio. Maybe it was part of our culture for so long that we don't see it anymore. I think it's kinda sad.
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**nodding agreement**
 
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