Aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

I find it interesting how those of us who have actually EXPERIENCED a hurricane, seem to have similar beliefs on the issue, while those who are absolutely CLUELESS want to point the finger at someone other than mother nature.

I could talk all day about the jewish haulocaust, but since I never EXPERIENCED it personally, my opinion would amount to jack compared to that of a haulocaust survivor.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I can tell you what I'm taking offense to. I'm taking offense to people here who are speaking about something when they no nothing about what they are talking about! Unless, you've been in a evacuation or been threatened by a hurricane, you really have no clue.

I've said this before, opinions are like assholes, and everybody's got one.

that is true. they have no clue...
 
shut the fuck up! I am fed up with all this crappy accusing and saying what one is offended and so on. who the fuck cares! get back to the frigging topic!
 
Thanks Kuifje for setting the ship back on the correct course....


I would continue more on the Katrina mess on this thread, but since it is getting outa hand I'm throwing up a thread at On-Topic Debates to keep the Current Events from turning into a complete bar-b-que flame 'em out war zone...
 
deafclimber said:
liebling,

please google yourself in hurricane history. we cannot prevent the super mother nature. many hurricanes did hit us in 1800s, 1700s. is that caused by global warming ?

http://www.keyshistory.org/hurricanelist.html

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/askjack/waskhurh.htm

find more info in google.com - hurricane or typhoon history !

Please respect it when I see different view than you after what I learn from TV news etc. I see no problem if you disagree with me - perhaps I´m mistake or what but you do not need be panic because I see different.
I do not mean to offence you or anyone but give you my honest opinion over katrina condition.

I do not need to search to find out about hurriances history because I know it for a long time. That´s what I mean is long time before Global warming comes...... It´s better than 1600s to 1800s time.


u sound like ur bragging that europe is the better than any country. europe is very lucky not to have hurricane or typhoon season at there. you wound realize if that happens to your country.

:confused: WRONG! We have severe thunderstrom, gailstrom, windstorm, icestrom etc. in Europe as you have hurriance in your country, too. The world is not prefect but I only say is security and safety as what the link written, that´s all. Every governement do something what they CAN when the happened comes. Of course it´s people´s decision which risk or non-risk country they choose to live. We (Europeans) feel for poor victims who was hit by hurriances etc. It´s normal for people who are furious and hurt as victims, too on the TV.

off topic: look at France's fires that killed people. i dont point my finger at the govt.

What´s fire accident do with Katrina issue here? It´s belong kind of accdients like car, train, fire, etc. but not hurriances, flood, thunderstrom, etc. It´s different.


you do offense us
I´m sorry if my post over black katrina victims offence you. I only tell you what I know from TV news what the black victims described their feeling to the reporters. That´s how their decription sounds freedom of abuse.



CCsinned:
Cuz it is up to the LOCAL government to get off their dead asses and do something.There are 3 types of government Federal - State - Local. The LOCAL government should have had a plan. It is up to them NOT the FEDERAL.

But Governor wrote a letter to President requesting $9,000,000 out of federal funds for emergency cost before katrina comes.
I am trying to understand why federal government let local governments to rule their states themselves whom they have no money enough to support emergencies like hurriances, flood, explosive, or rebuild to protect etc. I google to find out how difference between federal and local government.
Here:


http://www.gannett.com/go/newswatch/2002/november/nw1127-4.htm
 
Liebling:-))) said:
I am trying to understand why federal government let local governments to rule their states themselves whom they have no money enough to support emergencies like hurriances, flood, explosive, or rebuild to protect etc. I google to find out how difference between federal and local government.
Here:[/COLOR]

http://www.gannett.com/go/newswatch/2002/november/nw1127-4.htm

The United States of America is not really a country as you may think of it like Germany being a country (Land) with 16 states (Ländern). USA is more like the European Union, with the government in Brussels governing over all of Europe, but each country still has their own laws.

In 1700s, it was not a country, but the colonies which consisted of separate colonies under the English rule. Each colony had their own laws, government and economy. When the war ended in 1770s, the colonies decided to unite together under a weak central government under the "Articles of Confederation." It gave each state a lot of powers.

Fast forward to 1789, the constitution was written, and the states united together again under the current Federal government system. The federal goverment really only decides on the most important issues and leave the rest to the states to decide for themselves. Every state has different laws, government system and so on. The Federal Government has only enacted quite a few, but powerful laws under the Amendments to the Bills of the Rights, such as voting rights, womens rights, civil rights, rights for the disabled, etc...

This is similar to what the European Union is right now. Imagine Germany asking Brussels to give some money for some natural disasters? I hope this clarifies some uncertainities about how the US government works.
 
Eve,

What Bravo.... Bravo.... you're so smart... I believe... you know-it-all.
plus offense them too...

wowie... whopppieeee!!! :sure:


Doesn't need debate and increase flaming...

Bottomline....
Respect everyones' opnions P.O.V. peroid..
 
And I thought Canadians were such a civilised group of people.
Eve and others are putting you to shame. Give it up.
 
shut the fuck up! I am fed up with all this crappy accusing and saying what one is offended and so on. who the fuck cares! get back to the frigging topic!
Thanks Kuifje for setting the ship back on the correct course....
Why do you assume that kootchie isn’t referring to you as much as anyone else? I think ALL of us have cried foul here, no one is immune.

I would continue more on the Katrina mess on this thread, but since it is getting outa hand I'm throwing up a thread at On-Topic Debates to keep the Current Events from turning into a complete bar-b-que flame 'em out war zone...
Soooooo this is what you do. You don’t like having anyone disagree with you, so you start flaming, then when it gets out of hand, you run. Typical. Seems I recall you doing this in another forum not too long ago as well. Starting another thread will not negate the probability of this fiasco happening again, because we will all still have the same opinions, and will all continue to share those opinions in the same manner as we have done here. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.

We all need to chill out and get back on topic (myself included).
 
Liebling:-))) said:
...Yes, Government take care of their people here in Germany. Look at happened with large summer flood in 2002 at Eastern to Northern Germany and again in Switerzland & Austria in summer 2005.
Interesting that you should mention that.
...Consider these sobering statistics. In the 1999 floods in Bavaria, which caused $416 million in damage, the insured share of the loss was less than 10%. And when parts of the Czech Republic were flooded in 1997, wreaking almost $2 billion in destruction, insurance covered only 20%. "There will undoubtedly be substantial economic loss caused by the current flooding, but the insured loss is expected to be significantly lower," says Ivo Menzinger, head of the Flood Group at the insurance giant Swiss Re in Zurich. "This is largely due to the low penetration of flood insurance in the main affected areas of Austria, the Czech Republic and Germany."

In Britain, flood insurance is generally built into a standard "home-contents cover" package. Elsewhere in Europe, however, this type of insurance is sold separately. As a result, only a small number of people affected by the heavy weather may be insured against it — and even then, their coverage is unlikely to stretch very far. In Germany, which has so far sustained an estimated ?7 billion in damage, fewer than 3% of all households are covered for floods. Things are better in the former East Germany, where old state-run schemes offered flood cover as standard, and some of those policies are still in effect. In Austria, about half of all insured households are covered for floods — but only up to between 5,000 and 10,000 per home. The Austrian Insurance Association estimates insured losses for this disaster will be in the region of 100 million, while total losses could hit 3 billion. ...
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0826/flood/insure.html

Why can't the government do SOMETHING to rebuilt or whatever to protect from future hurricanes whom they knew the hurricances hit there often?
Do you realize how many miles of coastline the United States has? Do you know how many hundreds of square miles are affected by hurricanes? It is an area larger than all of Europe. If Europe can't stop flooding in their countries, how do you expect the US to stop hurricanes?

Also, as awful and deadly as hurricanes are, they are part of the natural process of cleansing the planet.

We can't prevent hurricanes. The best we can do is prepare for them.

Few days to week is plenty of time for the people to start their preparation. It's sad that people feel helpless because they have no car to get out of those state. Some of people have to walk to out of state but it's too late. Government offer their help is too late because the people died already.
People should always have individual, family, and work place emergency plans ready. Each family needs to sit down and discuss their plan, NOW, not after it is too late.

Why do people sit on their duffs and wait for the "government"?
 
Liebling:-))) said:
[/COLOR]


I´m sorry if my post over black katrina victims offence you. I only tell you what I know from TV news what the black victims described their feeling to the reporters. That´s how their decription sounds freedom of abuse.


I hope you are not saying "black victims" because of the high frequency of a certain race of the victims in Southern states... African-Americans are not the only one that are victims in those damaged zones. There are Causcasian victims, Hispanics victims, etc. The New Orleans images of African-Americans victims are used for many media purposes but remember-- Flordia, Mississippi, and Lousiana (Alabama?)are the states with victims from all ethnics groups. It is not limited to them.

I am hoping you referred to the color of ribbon that is for the Katrina victims....
ribbon_blk.gif
If not, please refrain yourself from just saying "black victims" because they are not the only ones. :) :ty:

Why can't the government do SOMETHING to rebuilt or whatever to protect from future hurricanes whom they knew the hurricances hit there often?

New Orleans did have a levee which is a man-made wall to protect the sea from washing the city out...but the concept doesn't work because it is causing New Orleans to be more hazardous because New Orleans still sinks-- no matter what, the lands will change. We live in Earth-- Earth is a dynamic energy that changes its apperance constantly. Erosion by winds, river, et cetera that reduces the height which results NO being under the seawater level which only prevented them from being flooded was this SIMPLE levee-- and the Hurriance KAtrina destoryed it. Man-made protections are NOT good for environment because it prevents the "buffer zones" of beaches to be formed... sands help to break up the waves eroding the coastal inland (or building)... the Levee has NO beach (no sands, nothing) so the waves are hitting the wall of levee HARD... even if Katrina didn't come, the levee has to be replaced MANY times because it will break down. Water is the powerful element.

LiIke Reba said, it is "Also, as awful and deadly as hurricanes are, they are part of the natural process of cleansing the planet. We can't prevent hurricanes. The best we can do is prepare for them. "

I saw the news saying that New Orleans will lose its business because now many revenues are relucalant to return to the damaged area with no guarantee that it won't happen again... the nearby city of Baton Rogue will boom... The history will repeat itself. Remember Galveston? It was considered as "New York City of the Gulf"... but after the horrible Hurriance in 1900s, it was washed out with over 1,000 people died (a large number back in 1900s) and the business/urban life were relocated to Houston which is today the biggest city in Texas. What do you think? Baton Rogue will be the hot thing in Lousiana now?

Interesting blog entry-- it discusses about the flooding of NO and whether it should be rebuild etc... it was based on a new article:

Experts expect Katrina to turn New Orleans into Atlantis, leaving up to 1 million homeless
by MATT CRENSON

When Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans on Monday, it could turn one of America's most charming cities into a vast cesspool tainted with toxic chemicals, human waste and even coffins released by floodwaters from the city's legendary cemeteries.
Experts have warned for years that the levees and pumps that usually keep New Orleans dry have no chance against a direct hit by a Category 5 storm.
That's exactly what Katrina was as it churned toward the city. With top winds of 165 mph and the power to lift sea level by as much as 28 feet above normal, the storm threatened an environmental disaster of biblical proportions, one that could leave more than 1 million people homeless.
"All indications are that this is absolutely worst-case scenario," Ivor van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center, said Sunday afternoon.
The center's latest computer simulations indicate that by Tuesday, vast swaths of New Orleans could be under water up to 30 feet deep. In the French Quarter, the water could reach 20 feet, easily submerging the district's iconic cast-iron balconies and bars.
Estimates predict that 60 percent to 80 percent of the city's houses will be destroyed by wind. With the flood damage, most of the people who live in and around New Orleans could be homeless.
"We're talking about in essence having - in the continental United States - having a refugee camp of a million people," van Heerden said.
Aside from Hurricane Andrew, which struck Miami in 1992, forecasters have no experience with Category 5 hurricanes hitting densely populated areas. This is the lack of prepartaion... not preventation or protecting with levees etc.. it is all about being prepared as Reba said.
"Hurricanes rarely sustain such extreme winds for much time. However we see no obvious large-scale effects to cause a substantial weakening the system and it is expected that the hurricane will be of Category 4 or 5 intensity when it reaches the coast," National Hurricane Center meteorologist Richard Pasch said.
As they raced to put meteorological instruments in Katrina's path Sunday, wind engineers had little idea what their equipment would record.
"We haven't seen something this big since we started the program," said Kurt Gurley, a University of Florida engineering professor. He works for the Florida Coastal Monitoring Program, which is in its seventh year of making detailed measurements of hurricane wind conditions using a set of mobile weather stations.
Experts have warned about New Orleans' vulnerability for years, chiefly because Louisiana has lost more than a million acres of coastal wetlands in the past seven decades. by EROSION-- just what I was saying. The vast patchwork of swamps and bayous south of the city serves as a buffer, partially absorbing the surge of water that a hurricane pushes ashore.
Experts have also warned that the ring of high levees around New Orleans, designed to protect the city from floodwaters coming down the Mississippi, will only make things worse in a powerful hurricane. Katrina is expected to push a 28-foot storm surge against the levees. Even if they hold, water will pour over their tops and begin filling the city as if it were a sinking canoe.
After the storm passes, the water will have nowhere to go.EXACTLY. Leeves, Jetty, Gorges, Seawalls-- all man-made structures to stop the power of ocean are WORTHLESS in time.
In a few days, van Heerden predicts, emergency management officials are going to be wondering how to handle a giant stagnant pond contaminated with building debris, coffins, sewage and other hazardous materials.
"We're talking about an incredible environmental disaster," van Heerden said.
He puts much of the blame for New Orleans' dire situation on the very levee system that is designed to protect southern Louisiana from Mississippi River floods.
Before the levees were built, the river would top its banks during floods and wash through a maze of bayous and swamps, dropping fine-grained silt that nourished plants and kept the land just above sea level.
The levees "have literally starved our wetlands to death" by directing all of that precious silt out into the Gulf of Mexico, van Heerden said.
It has been 40 years since New Orleans faced a hurricane even comparable to Katrina. In 1965, Hurricane Betsy, a Category 3 storm, submerged some parts of the city to a depth of seven feet.
Since then, the Big Easy has had nothing but near misses. In 1998, Hurricane Georges headed straight for New Orleans, then swerved at the last minute to strike Mississippi and Alabama. Hurricane Lili blew herself out at the mouth of the Mississippi in 2002. And last year's Hurricane Ivan obligingly curved to the east as it came ashore, barely grazing a grateful city.


Now you know. It is better to let the nature doing its course... after all-- we are on her turf. :)
 
Reba said:
Interesting that you should mention that.

Yes, I already mentioned that we have flood, thunderstrom, gailstorm etc. in my previous posts. All what I said is summer flood in 2002 is the worst, I ever remember. They built the wall to protect the flood there. Now again in Switerzland, Germany & Austria in summer flood 2005. The government promised that they will build wall again there. Yes, I know about 1997 (it doesn´t affect my area but thunderstrom, gailstrom, etc.) but things goes improve since large flood in 2002. Example: I found out about flood insurance system in flood zones last week. There're 3 different risk classes already (highest risks are affected by flooding more often than once in 10 years, middle risks are less than once in 10 years, but more often than once in 50 years and lowest risks are affected less than once in 50 years. It was clear where they began insure at flood zones with obligation in 2002. Therefore they begin to think about 4th risk is 200 year flood zone which it mean that there will be new insurance for 4th risk to add in property insurance for us this year. It means that they will receive full only if they have proof.

Do you realize how many miles of coastline the United States has? Do you know how many hundreds of square miles are affected by hurricanes? It is an area larger than all of Europe.

I can image how terrible hurriances is but I was told that global warming would help to reduce hurriances etc. I don´t know either it´s true or not.
http://www.environment2004.org/global_warming.php


If Europe can't stop flooding in their countries, how do you expect the US to stop hurricanes?
See above: I already said that they rebuilt the wall to protect floods in any flood zones.

Also, as awful and deadly as hurricanes are, they are part of the natural process of cleansing the planet.

We can't prevent hurricanes. The best we can do is prepare for them.

Yes, I know!

People should always have individual, family, and work place emergency plans ready. Each family needs to sit down and discuss their plan, NOW, not after it is too late.

Yes, that´s an exactly what I said in my previous post is PREPARATION...

Why do people sit on their duffs and wait for the "government"?
Good Point

I really don´t know what/how they plan but I only know that the people have no cars to get out of state or can´t afford to get out of state... they are scared to leave their homes without think twice how important is their LIFE... how could they? Governor wrote a letter to Bush ask for finiancal support and also emergencies support, too. I really don´t understand those situation since I remember that we received severe thunderstroms, gailstroms warning so we do something to make sure our house is safety because we LISTEN their warnings. Thunderstorm affected my freezer and garage wall lamp for a first time last year but the insurance cover it for us fully.


Kuiji75
The United States of America is not really a country as you may think of it like Germany being a country (Land) with 16 states (Ländern). USA is more like the European Union, with the government in Brussels governing over all of Europe, but each country still has their own laws.

In 1700s, it was not a country, but the colonies which consisted of separate colonies under the English rule. Each colony had their own laws, government and economy. When the war ended in 1770s, the colonies decided to unite together under a weak central government under the "Articles of Confederation." It gave each state a lot of powers.

Fast forward to 1789, the constitution was written, and the states united together again under the current Federal government system. The federal goverment really only decides on the most important issues and leave the rest to the states to decide for themselves. Every state has different laws, government system and so on. The Federal Government has only enacted quite a few, but powerful laws under the Amendments to the Bills of the Rights, such as voting rights, womens rights, civil rights, rights for the disabled, etc...

This is similar to what the European Union is right now. Imagine Germany asking Brussels to give some money for some natural disasters? I hope this clarifies some uncertainities about how the US government works.

I can see the sense... thank you for explanation... It´s hard to convince because this country is "United States of America". It´s still part of Federal government´s responsible to take care of their country if there´re big issues/scandal comes.

Yes, we have "Governor" on each states round Germany but we would call "Major" (Bürgermeister). They take their responsible for their people in their states. federal government (Schröder and his people) do something if there´re big scandal like flood, storms, etc. comes.
Bussels do not belongs Germany but Beligum. Beligum do something for Bussels if anything happened to them. Yes, you are correct about European Union over human rights, etc. I felt it´s bit different as USA because we have different countries and also different cultures & law in Europe than in America. Yes, it´s logical that every have local governor (Major) take their responsible for their people in different states and different laws, etc. in USA but I STILL think it´s PART of federal government´s responsible because of "United States of America".


gnarlydorkette
I hope you are not saying "black victims" because of the high frequency of a certain race of the victims in Southern states... African-Americans are not the only one that are victims in those damaged zones. There are Causcasian victims, Hispanics victims, etc. The New Orleans images of African-Americans victims are used for many media purposes but remember-- Flordia, Mississippi, and Lousiana (Alabama?)are the states with victims from all ethnics groups. It is not limited to them.

I am hoping you referred to the color of ribbon that is for the Katrina victims.... If not, please refrain yourself from just saying "black victims" because they are not the only ones.

Skin color doesn´t bother us really. Yes, I know they are not only one. I only tell you what I KNOW from the TV (of course with film) and what they said to reporter.. It´s them who described their feeling over white people/victims. I never thought that the word of "black victims" would offence Americans. Of course we all know that there´re white & black victims around there that´s what we call them as "katrina victims". Is it harm to post here what I know from black victims how they complaint on the TV?
 
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No offense, the New Orleans disaster is just like the Titanic disaster in back in the year 1912, society hasn't even changed one millimeter, wanna know why?

The rich people left out so many poor people on the ship and so many rich people survived and so many poor people got killed, same thing as the New Orleans...mostly rich people fled before the hurricane hit and you can see lots of people with poverty or poor people who got stuck or couldn't make it. It's same kind of society we still see and hasn't changed since the early 1900's, interesting huh?
 
Yeah that makes a sense...

I believe that the global warning is an original that started in South America because idiot and uneducated South Americans had or have been cutting down millions of jungles that affect the weather such heat waves, tornados, and hurricanes because of the sphire imbalances. They only care is to make money by selling their woods to our country.

Some scientists have been trying to convince corporation-owners and the presidents. George does not care about South America he cares more about oil business especially overseas. He has been investing his oil stocks since he was the governor of Texas. I was told that George and Bin L used to be good friends b/c Bin was an oil invester. And, I assume that they had a terrible disagreement and hateful...
 
I saw on TV that Julia Roberts had some conversations with victims in New Orleans saying how much they've been through and what they feel about the country's treatin them and all so it seems alot of them has lost respect and faith in the government and even as for Bush, who has barely even been prepared to give out every food and water to the victims in new orleans after the hurricane has slammed the city there so it looks like bush doesnt seem to care too much about the problems there even though it would cost millions, if billions of dollars to repair whole city...of course takes like 3 or 4 months for New Orleans to be all back to normal *shook my head*

bush is most definetly the biggest embrassassment for running our country like that.
 
yeah Sequioas, Webexplorer & Steel...

Sequioas, it's an exactly what African-Americans feel about white Americans. They felt that white Victims come first before African-Americans... The film on TV remember the histories about them... I don't want to make any further posts here what I know from TV...

Webexplorer, yes, I'm agree to this sadly...
We can't understand why Bush cut greenhouse budgets whom he didn't know how important they are to human's risk life. :(

Steel, yeah... I know but it's not just Julie Robert but others, too... Sean Penn... I don't blame katrina's victims for lost their respect on government.


Simple is Blanco and Bush both are the same! I really don't know why we are argue over that "who is the fault..." Simple is both same instead of accuss who is more fault...
 
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I found interesting link from other forum.

"No one can say they didn't see it coming"
In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/08/31/disaster_preparation/index_np.html


http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/foretold.asp

"A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water, killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of southeastern Louisiana can save the city "

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000

Check the date: October 2001 issue
 
celebrities are truly cares about katrina vitcims and helping them.

What hell mattah w/Bush and gov'tor too!!!!

Already proof what Magastu's posted it another thread.. *Make sense*
 
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