A question...is the Cochlear implant made for the hearing or for the deaf?

[TXgolfer]

i'm not saying but itrs a real book AND you can't get electronic versions of it ANYWHERE

Why would the name of the book be a secret?

 

[ambrosia]

Apples to oranges.

No it's very very apples to apples, in both cases it's the masses learning a language for a minority, extremely comparable.

In fact, there are even more Spanish speaking people in America than deaf ones, which makes you're reasoning even more wonky.

 

[shel90]

No it's very very apples to apples, in both cases it's the masses learning a language for a minority, extremely comparable.

In fact, there are even more Spanish speaking people in America than deaf ones, which makes you're reasoning even more wonky.

U are comparing deaf people to hearing people. Apples to oranges. Gotta think outside of the box. This is not about Spanish speaking people who CAN hear and pick up different languages without barriers.

Maybe it is your reasoning that is wonky because you keep comparing deaf people to hearing people.

 

[LoveBlue]

This week I'm wishing I had a CI because ear wax would not be causing my increased hearing loss, which my HAs can't adequately compensate for. Hopefully it is just ear wax that's causing the problem & not a real dip in my hearing.

 

[Frisky Feline]

 

[TXgolfer]

U are comparing deaf people to hearing people. Apples to oranges. Gotta think outside of the box. This is not about Spanish speaking people who CAN hear and pick up different languages without barriers.

Maybe it is your reasoning that is wonky because you keep comparing deaf people to hearing people.

Looked like she was comparing language to language.

 

[Bottesini]

Looked like she was comparing language to language.

Yes she was . Unfortunately, it's the different abilities needed for acquiring the languages between hearing languages and sign languages that is the true issue.

 

[Jiro]

WTF are you talking about? At USPS, I get the same pay as another postal worker who wears CI. Or maybe more than that worker depending on seniority and position.

I don't work at USPS. I only said our jobs pay more.

 

[Jiro]

No it's very very apples to apples, in both cases it's the masses learning a language for a minority, extremely comparable.

In fact, there are even more Spanish speaking people in America than deaf ones, which makes you're reasoning even more wonky.

so.... you're ok with a family not bothering to learn ASL for their deaf child?

 

[TXgolfer]

Yes she was . Unfortunately, it's the different abilities needed for acquiring the languages between hearing languages and sign languages that is the true issue.

Which is irrelevant in this comparison.

So.....do you think everyone in America should learn Spanish so they can speak with the Mexicans? If we all learned Spanish for them who would be the ones benefitting? The mexicans...or the Americans?

A comment preceded by..

Originally Posted by shel90
For hearing people's benefit because hearing people can learn ASL but most don't want to. Oh well.

Ambrosia's comparison relates perfectly. She is comparing the hearing, English speaking majority learning the language of a 2 different minority cultures. Because, even as Shel admits, hearing people can learn ASL.

 

[ambrosia]

so.... you're ok with a family not bothering to learn ASL for their deaf child?

Of course not, nothing I said indicated that. Shel THE hearing people, she didn't mention specific ones, ie a family.

Which is irrelevant in this comparison.



A comment preceded by..




Ambrosia's comparison relates perfectly. She is comparing the hearing, English speaking majority learning the language of a 2 different minority cultures. Because, even as Shel admits, hearing people can learn ASL.

Exactly,

I certainly wasn't comparing deaf people to hearing ones! In both cases I was talking about hearing people learning another language to speak with a minority, and was asking her who would benefit if they all learned Spanish, the Americans or the Mexicans, which she didn't answer btw.

 

[Jiro]

Of course, nothing I said indicated that.

then what's up with this reply?

So.....do you think everyone in America should learn Spanish so they can speak with the Mexicans? If we all learned Spanish for them who would be the ones benefitting? The mexicans...or the Americans?

who said anything about requiring or demanding that they learn ASL? we're talking about hearing family members with deaf children... not general people. so silly!

 

[ambrosia]

then what's up with this reply?



who said anything about requiring or demanding that they learn ASL? we're talking about hearing family members with deaf children... not general people. so silly!

I type to fast and hardly proof read, I already fixed it. Where exactly is it indicated on this thread that we're talking about family???

In fact the work environment has been mentioned several times. All I've seen is the hearing people. That's a big damn blanket. Find me the post where it indicates we're only talking about family members.

 

[Bottesini]

Which is irrelevant in this comparison.



A comment preceded by..




Ambrosia's comparison relates perfectly. She is comparing the hearing, English speaking majority learning the language of a 2 different minority cultures. Because, even as Shel admits, hearing people can learn ASL.

I really feel you are smarter than your comments portend.

But if you enjoy the innocent act you put up, ok by me.


And I use innocent in a really old fashioned meaning.

 

[Jiro]

I type to fast and hardly proof read, I already fixed it. Where exactly is it indicated on this thread that we're talking about family???

In fact the work environment has been mentioned several times. All I've seen is the hearing people. That's a big damn blanket. Find me the post where it indicates we're only talking about family members.

if I had to explain it for you, then you are either just arguing for the sake of argument or don't fully understand the this issue.

 

[Grummer]

Its not OK to not bother to learn ASL/BSL/Ausland/NZSL to interact with a Deaf member, afterall a Deaf member of a family is a priviledge to have it, gives a family a chance to be in a deaf community which is huge...but sadly im not one of those lucky ones...
anyway...

U are comparing deaf people to hearing people. Apples to oranges. Gotta think outside of the box. This is not about Spanish speaking people who CAN hear and pick up different languages without barriers.

Maybe it is your reasoning that is wonky because you keep comparing deaf people to hearing people.

OK OK OK OK !!!!!
THE WONKY PART IS THIS

THE unique part of language is also the part of culture AND THE BIOLOGICAL VERSUS CULTURE per see...hell...to 'explain' let me borrow a good snippet to share you both and hope it settles the friction OK??


be transcended (and often it should be), it cannot be changed. Even if I
were fluent in Spanish, had acquired an exclusive taste for Mexican food
and music, and had lived in Mexico for 20 years, I would not he Mexi^'an. Yet, I could wake up deaf tomorrow, and despite possessing only a preschool
vocabulary in sign, I would be the Deaf community's newest member,
regardless of my feelings on the matter, or theirs. Deaf culture, finally, in
addition to allowing persons to join it after many years of life in a totally different culture, also seems to admit of dual "citizenship" as it were (Hispanic and Deaf, Chinese and Deaf), yet in a way that would not allow one to be, say, Austrian and Eskimo.

um...i dont know if this is going to help...but do try figure out what um, geee im so tired...
oh the wonky part is
sign language does not require A blood-BASED ENTHICITY, BUT phemonemonalisitic type of neccessity to speak it...
um damn

 

[Grummer]

I type to fast and hardly proof read, I already fixed it. Where exactly is it indicated on this thread that we're talking about family???

In fact the work environment has been mentioned several times. All I've seen is the hearing people. That's a big damn blanket. Find me the post where it indicates we're only talking about family members.

read mine, i just posted right now, above...

 

[Grummer]

urgh, id get a better one...
i'm going back abit, in that article...here goes..
it is interesting and it is well-reasoned, and it explains well...

It is important to realize that, while we regard deafness as a disability, we do not regard
it solely as a disability. Indeed, the more we learn about deafness, the less
we see it as disabling of the whole person. That is not an indication that,
given enough time, we will cease to call deafness a disability, for any time
a person cannot physically do what the great majority of people of the
same age could do if they wanted, we will call that a disability. But thanks to
Margaret, our understanding of disabilities has grown enormously. We
see, for example, that some disabilities are clearly worse than others, and that
some disabilities are so addressable that the term disability seems no
longer to have much practical meaning in their case. We see that at least
one disability, profound deafness, actually opens opportunities for human
growth that we never knew existed. Regarding Conclusion 2, while we
believe deafness results in a genuine culture, one unified around an independent
language system, that does not mean that we see deafness as
merely or even typically cultural. Deaf culture differs significantly from all
other cultures we have encountered. For one thing, other cultures (as opposed
to life-styles) and languages (as opposed to vocabulary) are pa.ssed on
overwhelmingly by parents. Our son Thomas, for example, was not suddenly
born French, and our daughter Theresa was not mysteriously born
Indian Hindu. All of our children were born Anglo-American and they will
always be Anglo-American. But this higb correlation (not absolute,
but high) between parental cultural identity and the cultural identity
of children is manifestly untrue in regard to Deaf culture. Ninety percent of
deaf children have hearing parents, and in our circles at least, the great
maiority of deaf parents have at least some hearing kids. Most deaf children
necessarily, therefore, receive most important Deaf cultural input from
nonparental sources (an unnerving thought for parents who are committed
to forming their children as they believe best), and the emotional consequences
of hearing children not belonging to tbeir deaf parents' cultural
community are apparently significant enough to occasion support groups
designed to address these consequences. Moreover, while culture might well
be transcended (and often it should be), it cannot be changed. Even if I
were fluent in Spanish, had acquired an exclusive taste for Mexican food.
and music, and had lived in Mexico for 20 years, I would not he Mexian


hmmm , what you reckon...interesting?

 

[ambrosia]

Guys you can't tell me oh I just said it just now. BEFORE that. With your original post Grummer, were asking if a CI is for the benefit of the or the deaf or their hearing family members? Or we're you asking about general hearies?

But given the posts in the thread it sure sounded like people were talking about general hearies. AND a deaf person will deal with a lot more hearies than just the ones in their family.

 

[Grummer]

when you're born deaf...there's no way around it, it boils down to a two, NON -perfect choices, have a medical help which IS NOT going to cure anything (along with drills to learn speech/hearing which WILL delay langauge acquistion (it doesnt matter which, my point is speech training WILL delay speech language acquistion because deaf kids DONT know what the hell they saying this for what? or that for this? its very confusing - I KNOW - i been through it, i am one of the 'most amazing oral deaf who uses HA so well0 I am that SAME sort of which you'd see audists will say im amazing with CI, im not Deaf at all, but they dont have a clue what's its Like...to be unethically experiemented on, as your whole life is under the scope (much like 'Truman Show")..its truely creepy... and then if a deaf child given a choice or chance sign is just there, for the taking and as well as Learning takes place quickly and naturally....then out to the hearing world, what is better a clued up Deaf who spoken sign , read English can confidently seek opinions, or a deaf who spoke so well, but read English as just as well but still bit unsure for all that lift time of being slightly timid, or slightl aggressive (to over come shyness)...which then brings out all sorts of complex pyschological problems, - often not undestood by psychologists very well because they are misinformed by audist deaf advisors....which makes matters worse...

all because of 'faith' in the 'science of re-production of 'hearing individuals' have blindsided to the real matters of emotional/psychological/socetial impact, largely because it wasnt intended for the deaf person to BE themselves, but to BE a Hearing selves...it echoes back as 'its for the whim, wishes of the hearing'
if Deafness exists, then well, thats just another way of nature saying, you can be short, tall, fat, thin, red haired, green eyed, slow-to-wit, quick to move, strong to lift, talented to draw...right arms lengths, right composure of the breasts width, thin haired or thick eyebrowed...really good eyesight for olympics clay shooting, really thin but good for marathon running...hear less, hear alot less, brings out something else, different, a language that born from hands and eyes...and it has been like this for thousands of years...why hearing people are hating it? do hearing people hate fat people? probably not, and probably more so to a different degree...excess fat yes, but excess deafness, comes along with a language that somehow, just happens...
like sports of running somehow just happens...

and ci is really for the hearing because they cant handle the differences...