French burqa ban goes into force on monday

[webexplorer]

Well, I admit it... I took a picture of my family. Here is a picture of my sister and mother. Wait a minute, I am not sure that on the left woman could be my mother. Scratching my head...

Note: Actually, I didn't take this picture.

 

[Jiro]

correction..... French is banning burqa... not hijab.

 

[Jiro]

Well, I admit it... I took a picture of my family. Here is a picture of my sister and mother. Wait a minute, I am not sure that on the left woman could be my mother. Scratching my head...

Note: Actually, I didn't take this picture.

my wife has a distinctive smell.

 

[posts from hell]

my wife has a distinctive smell.

Only after I'm done with her.

 

[Aleser]

First, a "burqa" is a long overgarment which covers the eyes with a mesh and runs down the body, commonly seen in Afghanistan.

A niqab is the covering much more commonly seen outside of that country, especially among Saudi women etc. It is merely a bit of fabric that covers the lower face: sometimes it also has a strap to cover the forehead, or a thin flip-over veil to cover the eyes.

--

I don't think many of the commenters here really understand the level of racism and anti-immigrant action that is pervasive in French culture. I don't think they understand that France shoves these Arab and Asian immigrants into the corners of society and ghettos, and then further marginalizes them by prohibiting them from dressing or worshiping as they please in public, despite not harming anyone with how they dress or worship. There is no "public safety" issue in banning a jewish boy from wearing a kippah in his classroom, and indeed he is religiously obligated to do so, and France did it anyways.

This ban will accomplish nothing except shaming women who voluntarily wear the niqab into staying at home for fear of the police. This law sanctions, if that woman dares venture out of her home dressed in clothing she perceives as decent and modest, arresting and harassing her with male police for "the sake of her equality". This law sanctions, even if they were in no way involved in a woman's choice to wear the niqab (indeed, many young girls wearing it today do so despite the protests of their less-conservative parents), arresting and imprisoning her father or uncle or grandfather on nothing more than the mere suspicion of "coercion".

This is not France moving in the right direction. If France were actually seeking to de-marginalize immigrant women, and give them the opportunity to -choose- to participate in a gender equal society, they'd be working on combating racism and helping immigrants get good work and get out of the ghettos.

Instead they're ordering male cops to arrest women for what they wear. Doesn't sound like "combating oppression" to me, does sound like France further sanctioning racism.

 

[Steinhauer]

Thank you Aleser.

 

[Reba]

Reba, those appear to be Saudi Arabian women (possibly? according to Google images?) but he was right about Bere nuns and face coverings.

Are the Bere nuns currently out in public in large numbers with their veils covering their faces? If so, where?

Off topic--when I did a search for the Bere nuns, the search engine wanted to change my request to "beer nuts."

 

[Jiro]

Are the Bere nuns currently out in public in large numbers with their veils covering their faces? If so, where?

Off topic--when I did a search for the Bere nuns, the search engine wanted to change my request to "beer nuts."

same here

 

[Steinhauer]

must not have been the same search engine I used

Veiled nuns - a set on Flickr

 

[Jiro]

must not have been the same search engine I used

Veiled nuns - a set on Flickr

interesting

Before the Vatican II Council the trademark of Catholic nuns used to be their habit, consisting of flowing robes and veils that covered the entire body, leaving only the face and hands visible.

But the design of the habits of the many orders of nuns has varied over the ages. During various times in history it has been practices among some orders to have their nuns to also veil their faces. Today this tradition is very uncommon and only a few orders mandates this practice.

 

[Steinhauer]

interesting

I hate to be the one to say I told you so.

 

[Jiro]

I hate to be the one to say I told you so.

told me what?

 

[Steinhauer]

Before the Vatican II Council the trademark of Catholic nuns used to be their habit, consisting of flowing robes and veils that covered the entire body, leaving only the face and hands visible.

But the design of the habits of the many orders of nuns has varied over the ages. During various times in history it has been practices among some orders to have their nuns to also veil their faces. Today this tradition is very uncommon and only a few orders mandates this practice.

Only a few orders (Bere Nuns, Albanian Nuns and a few orders of Eastern Orthodox Nuns) cover their faces.

I am sure there are other orders. Point is, they are not welcome in France. Or are they?

So far, we have a list of persona non grata in France.

- ninjas
- MUSLIM WOMEN
- Batman
- some rare order of nuns

 

[Reba]

Veils were worn quite often by women in the US half a century ago. They covered the face.

They were "fashionable". Lots of black and white movies show women wearing veils.

But when requested to remove a veil for identification purposes, did they comply?

 

[Jiro]

Only a few orders (Bere Nuns, Albanian Nuns and a few orders of Eastern Orthodox Nuns) cover their faces.

as in.... rare.

I am sure there are other orders. Point is, they are not welcome in France. Or are they?

So far, we have a list of persona non grata in France.

- ninjas
- MUSLIM WOMEN
- Batman
- some rare order of nuns

again - why would you ask that kind of question when you know an obvious answer? plus - I answered this question more than once already. I guess I'll have to answer it again.

French law is banning any kind of full-faced covering. is there anything you don't understand from that simple sentence?

 

[Jiro]

Steinhauer - let me ask you this... would you agree to the fact that we should bend our Constitution & laws to accommodate a certain ethnic/religious group?

 

[Reba]

Would anyone have a problem if the law was applied across the board to anyone whose face was covered by anything? That is, when stopped by an officer of the law, and requested to show one's face, that included people wearing motorcycle helmets with mirrored face shields, face veils, dust masks, bandanas, rubber masks, etc.?

 

[Steinhauer]

Steinhauer - let me ask you this... would you agree to the fact that we should bend our Constitution & laws to accommodate a certain ethnic/religious group?

Our Constitution allows freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion. It is not allowing freedom of religion only in places of worship - it specifically states that the Government cannot interfere, or respect an establishment of religion (in other words, govern via religion).

What France is doing is attempting to interfere with an establishment of religion.

Who else wears full faced veils? I know spiderman does. Is he from France? I have been pulled over while riding and wearing a full face helmet, I was never asked to remove it.

I can understand having to remove hats, etc. for a photo ID - but banning ballcaps everywhere is kind of ridiculous.

Why aren't Muslim men ordered to shave their beards? Is that the next step? Public safety issues?

 

[Reba]

The American Constitution protects the right of women to wear a hijab in public. Hallelujah.

Yes, but if a law officer requests a woman to show her face so he can identify her, that's allowed, right?

 

[Jiro]

Our Constitution allows freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion. It is not allowing freedom of religion only in places of worship - it specifically states that the Government cannot interfere, or respect an establishment of religion (in other words, govern via religion).

What France is doing is attempting to interfere with an establishment of religion.

huh? did you even read my previous post? I'll repost (pay extra attention to first sentence) -

France's burqa ban in effect next month - CNN

The French Constitutional Council said the law did not impose disproportionate punishments or prevent the free exercise of religion in a place of worship, finding therefore that "the law conforms to the Constitution."

"Given the damage it produces on those rules which allow the life in community, ensure the dignity of the person and equality between sexes, this practice, even if it is voluntary, cannot be tolerated in any public place," the French government said when it sent the measure to parliament in May.

Lawmakers have also cited security reasons for forbidding people from covering their faces in public.

Who else wears full faced veils? I know spiderman does. Is he from France? I have been pulled over while riding and wearing a full face helmet, I was never asked to remove it.

I had to remove it.

I can understand having to remove hats, etc. for a photo ID - but banning ballcaps everywhere is kind of ridiculous.

they're not banning it "everywhere"... only public place.

Why aren't Muslim men ordered to shave their beards? Is that the next step? Public safety issues?

I cannot understand why you're pinning this as Muslim thing. This has nothing to do with Muslim people. Are you equating men with beard as women wearing burqa where you cannot see women's faces?