French burqa ban goes into force on monday

[Reba]

If it were to break accidentally then that person would be at risk of illness. With a properly fit-tested mask, this should happen rarely or never (it has never happened to me). Likewise, in a medical emergency, the need to save that person's life would be weighed against the risk of harm of exposing them to infectious diseases. Someone who is seriously ill will not likely be eating in public, as one would have to breathe contaminated air to do so, and would also have to eat food of uncertain safety standards.

I mean, when you eat not in public.

 

[Jiro]

Okay, what if I were to be stopped by an officer for a mere parking violation wherein nobody was putting anyone's life at risk at all, but I was indeed breaking the law?

And even if I were committing a more serious crime, it is unreasonable to assert that because I have made 1 mistake, I should have my right to protect my life taken from me.

for a parking violation - officer will simply issue you a ticket and put it on your windshield. He does not need your ID. you need to stop coming up with silly scenarios.

if you were committing a serious crime, you automatically lose the rights and I am in 100% support of police's action to take any legal action against you if you refuse to comply with officer's instruction. This is comical - robbing a bank and you don't want officer to remove your mask for identification purpose?

This is getting too silly.

 

[Aleser]

I mean, when you eat not in public.

Your home is a controllable environment. You can ensure that sick people do not enter, run anti-bacterial air filters, etc. The same applies to, say, a private work office, a car, etc.

Out on the street, or in a restaurant, or in other public places, you are not in a controllable environment with whole-space measures like airfilters, so you control your environment with masking, handwashing, etc.

 

[Jiro]

Or are you the sort who believes that a woman walking down the street naked would be asking for rape and thus is not really a victim?

It's against the law to be naked in public.

 

[Aleser]

if you were committing a serious crime, you automatically lose the rights and I am in 100% support of police's action to take any legal action against you if you refuse to comply with officer's instruction. This is comical - robbing a bank and you don't want officer to remove your mask for identification purpose?

This is getting too silly.

You are "100% in support" of an officer knowingly killing someone who is arrested, nonviolent, and controlled, merely because they committed the act of robbing a bank? Because that's what this amounts to.

 

[Reba]

Okay, what if I were to be stopped by an officer for a mere parking violation wherein nobody was putting anyone's life at risk at all, but I was indeed breaking the law?

If it's a parking violation you wouldn't need to be stopped because you wouldn't be moving.

Again, why would you commit a parking violation, especially if you know it could be risky for your health?

And even if I were committing a more serious crime, it is unreasonable to assert that because I have made 1 mistake, I should have my right to protect my life taken from me. Accepting 1 risk (driving without a seatbelt) should not mean being forced, as a non-natural consequence, to be subject to an entirely irrelevant risk.

If you were committing a crime, how is the police officer supposed to know your medical history? Again, if you put yourself into risky situations you need to accept the consequences.

 

[Aleser]

It's against the law to be naked in public.

Not everywhere in the world. But for argument's sake, she can be wearing a bikini.

 

[Jiro]

You are "100% in support" of an officer knowingly killing someone who is arrested, nonviolent, and controlled, merely because they committed the act of robbing a bank? Because that's what this amounts to.

what?

 

[Reba]

Your home is a controllable environment. You can ensure that sick people do not enter, run anti-bacterial air filters, etc. The same applies to, say, a private work office, a car, etc.

Out on the street, or in a restaurant, or in other public places, you are not in a controllable environment with whole-space measures like airfilters, so you control your environment with masking, handwashing, etc.

So, you have to be more cautious about what you do so as not to risk exposure.

 

[Jiro]

Not everywhere in the world.

I thought we were talking about America? Why would we be talking about world? it's of no concern to me.

But for argument's sake, she can be wearing a bikini.

yea and so? that's fine. There was a woman who wore bikini and went thru airport security screening. She wasn't arrested because she wasn't nude.

Any more silly question?

 

[Aleser]

If it's a parking violation you wouldn't need to be stopped because you wouldn't be moving.

Again, why would you commit a parking violation, especially if you know it could be risky for your health?


If you were committing a crime, how is the police officer supposed to know your medical history? Again, if you put yourself into risky situations you need to accept the consequences.

But this would not be a -natural- consequence. This would be an artificial consequence created by the -choice- of another individual to force you into an action.

Again, would you assert that walking down the street in minimal clothing, or while drunken, is inviting rape and that the person raped is not a victim but merely the recipient of the consequences of their actions?

 

[Jiro]

But this would not be a -natural- consequence. This would be an artificial consequence created by the -choice- of another individual to force you into an action.

Again, would you assert that walking down the street in minimal clothing, or while drunken, is inviting rape and that the person raped is not a victim but merely the recipient of the consequences of their actions?

what? I see.... "customers are always right" attitude....

in other word - "criminals are always right"

 

[Reba]

...Or are you the sort who believes that a woman walking down the street naked would be asking for rape and thus is not really a victim?

Sorry, I missed this part of your post.

No, I don't believe it's acceptable for a man to rape a woman under any circumstance.

I'm not any "sort."

Comparing a rapist committing a violent crime with a police officer performing a lawful duty is total nonsense.

 

[Aleser]

Sorry, I missed this part of your post.

No, I don't believe it's acceptable for a man to rape a woman under any circumstance.

I'm not any "sort."

Comparing a rapist committing a violent crime with a police officer performing a lawful duty is total nonsense.

You consider forcing a person to remove a medical device, the removal of which may kill them, to be a nonviolent act? That's funny.

 

[Reba]

But this would not be a -natural- consequence. This would be an artificial consequence created by the -choice- of another individual to force you into an action.

Nope. The logical consequence of breaking a law is being confronted by law enforcement. Duh!

Again, would you assert that walking down the street in minimal clothing, or while drunken, is inviting rape and that the person raped is not a victim but merely the recipient of the consequences of their actions?

Again, a rapist taking advantage of a vulnerable person, is not the same as a law officer enforcing the law against a law breaker.

 

[Jiro]

methinks there's no point in continuing this farce. it's become a broken merry-go-around with unsynchronized tune.

 

[Jiro]

You consider forcing a person to remove a medical device, the removal of which may kill them, to be a nonviolent act? That's funny.

officers taze uncooperative, belligerent people with heart condition.

I suppose seeing an officer or civilians getting hurt in due process is funny to you because criminals are always right.

 

[Reba]

You consider forcing a person to remove a medical device, the removal of which may kill them, to be a nonviolent act? That's funny.

Has this actually happened? Was a medical mask forcefully removed from an individual for no reason? Did that person die?

Did a police officer stop someone wearing a mask who broke the law? Did the officer request the masked be removed for identification? Did the person wearing the mask provide medical documentation for it? Did the police officer refuse to accept the excuse, and force the person to remove the mask? Did the person die as a result?

You seem to enjoy asking hypotheticals, so I've provided you with some.

 

[Jiro]

for real world scenarios - we can simply look at TSA at airports.

 

[TheOracle]

Would anyone have a problem if the law was applied across the board to anyone whose face was covered by anything? That is, when stopped by an officer of the law, and requested to show one's face, that included people wearing motorcycle helmets with mirrored face shields, face veils, dust masks, bandanas, rubber masks, etc.?

No. It's just that this law is about strolling down the street in a niqab.

From what I've been reading, the few women in France who choose to wear the niqab or burqa arrived at that conclusion themselves.

France isn't under our Constitution, just like Saudi Arabia isn't. They don't have the same tradition, much less laws, that support freedom to worship.

Freedom of religion is in France's constitution, though.

"The Republic assures freedom of conscience. It guarantees the free exercise of religious worship under the sole restrictions hereafter in the interest of public order. The Republic does not grant recognition nor pay nor subsidises any church."

("La République assure la liberté de conscience. Elle garantit le libre exercice des cultes sous les seules restrictions édictées ci-après dans l'intérêt de l'ordre public. La République ne reconnaît, ne salarie ni ne subventionne aucun culte.")

Most men's beards don't hide all their facial features.

and

I guess her nose is pretty covered. But in the French law, a woman couldn't wear the above example, even though it is lace.

Hmm...

I just fail to see how this a safety issue. Can someone please tell me how a woman walking down the street in a niqab is a safety issue? Because the French government has clearly stated it is not about anyone's safety. It's about dislike of the garment/s in question and dislike of that particular Muslim community in question.

I wonder if the wives of Saudi execs will be asked to remove their niqab.