2010 Election Results

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Tolls were abolished years ago here in Duval County. We voted against them. Rather a sales tax instead....but recently, I just read that some tolls would be brought back, so all residents here are in an uproar!
Believe that NC has a "road tax", which Florida does not.

Think it should be for the residents to vote for or against. And my vote was for "No Tolls".
 
I prefer gas tax over tolls too.
 
In my state, no. I prefer the gas tax to the tolls.

Okay. Are gas taxes in your state sufficient for road maintenance, or are other forms of taxation supplementing that revenue?
 
You wouldn't know it in the state of New York. The highways and roads are in terrible conditions there.

Not to mention that they do have toll booths there too as well.

Oh, yeah. I'm just trying to find out what people are willing to sacrifice in order not to pay taxes or have their taxes reduced.
 
I slipped the previous pages (too many to make up so shortcut myself).

Anyway, I find it quite perplexing as why few ones prefer gas tax over toll tax? (That is unless you use toll road or bridge daily or almost daily, ofc)

If you do not use any toll road or bridge often yet prefer gas tax, you still pay more tax money via gas because you eventually pay gas more often than using any toll road or bridge, right?
 
I slipped the previous pages (too many to make up so shortcut myself).

Anyway, I find it quite perplexing as why few ones prefer gas tax over toll tax? (That is unless you use toll road or bridge daily or almost daily, ofc)

If you do not use any toll road or bridge often yet prefer gas tax, you still pay more tax money via gas because you eventually pay gas more often than using any toll road or bridge, right?

Simple.....Gas tax covers users of all roads. Can't put a toll on every road. Plus toll roads slow traffic.... (not everyone has an e z pass)
 
Simple.....Gas tax covers users of all roads. Can't put a toll on every road. Plus toll roads slow traffic.... (not everyone has an e z pass)

Yeah, some don't even bother to stop at a toll booth and instead prefer to go airborne over it.
 
Okay. Are gas taxes in your state sufficient for road maintenance, or are other forms of taxation supplementing that revenue?
Here's the breakdown:

SCDOT - Inside SCDOT - Revenues and Expenditures


South Carolina does have two toll sections:

1. Southern Connector"
Southern Connector Toll Road - FAQ's

We've driven in that area many times but I've never seen the toll road.

2. Hilton Head
HiltonHead SC Cross Island Parkway doing well | TOLLROADSnews

This is one reason why people don't trust tolls:

"State officials have said tolls will be ended when the bonds are paid off - a date once put at 2021. But officials now say they can't give any date for bond retirement. "


Toll roads a tough sell in Palmetto State

Of the two in S.C., one is 'a spectacular financial failure' while the other is moving traffic above expectations
By Diane Knich
Sunday, June 22, 2008

South Carolinians just don't seem to like the idea of having to pay to drive on a road.

The state has only two toll roads. And as Charleston County Council considers building another that cuts across largely rural Johns Island, some people are looking closely at them to see if they're working.

The Coastal Conservation League, which is opposed to building a toll road on Johns Island, says the state's experience with pay-to-drive roads hasn't been good. Officials should be cautious when considering building more toll roads, the group says.

The Cross Island Parkway on Hilton Head Island, the state's first toll road, which opened in early 1998, is clearly the more successful of the two projects. On average, 26,000 cars use the road each day, according to the South Carolina Department of Transportation. That's 8,000 cars more than the original projections estimated for the road's 10-year mark. Financially, however, the project is just getting by, and SCDOT had to raise the toll this year for the first time, increasing it to $1.25 from $1.

The Southern Connector in Greenville, the state's second toll road, which opened in 2001, has failed dramatically to meet traffic and financial projections. The toll road runs along the southern end of Greenville and connects Interstate 85 to Interstate 385. In 2007, the road brought in about $5.4 million. That falls 62 percent short of the amount of money the road was expected to generate, according to the trade publication TOLLROADSnews.

Tim Brett, spokesman for the Southern Connector, said the road, which was built by a public-private partnership called the Connections 2000 Association, is having financial trouble because use has fallen far below projections.

The projections were off likely because the original study included some miscalculations, he said. And, he added, there was an economic slowdown just after the road opened.

Alex Dadok, project manager for the Coastal Conservation League, called the Southern Connector "a spectacular financial failure."

Joe Bunting is chief operating officer of the Kiawah Island Community Association. He said the association's board and the mayor of the town strongly support building a toll road across Johns Island.

The road would bring people across Johns Island to Kiawah Island more quickly, Bunting said. And it would divert traffic from slower-moving roads on Johns Island, making them safer.

The association hasn't carefully reviewed the performance of the state's other toll roads, Bunting said, but he doesn't believe there's much to learn from the financially troubled Southern Connector. Drivers in that area can choose to pay to drive on the toll road or they can drive for free on the interstate. The toll road doesn't offer them much for their money, he said. But on the proposed Johns Island road, drivers would have the choice of driving on the toll road or on "slower-moving neighborhood streets," he said. Bunting believes many drivers would opt to use a toll road across Johns Island.

Kiawah Development Partners, which also supports building the toll road, recommended speaking to Wallace Hawkes, a special projects consultant for URS, a large engineering firm that builds toll roads.

Hawkes said that just like any other business, sometimes toll roads fail to meet financial expectations. "For every Southern Connector there are a lot of success stories out there," he said.

Hawkes said Charleston County considered building a similar road across Johns Island in the mid-1990s. His company bid on the contract but the county didn't go ahead with the project, he said.

Hawkes said that if the county decides to move forward with the Sea Islands Parkway, a consortium of companies, including URS, will likely bid on it. "The Sea Islands project looks like a very good project," he said.

But Dadok said the county should be careful.

Toll roads can't immediately solve traffic problems, he said. Nearly a decade passed between the time Hilton Head's Cross Island Parkway was approved and the time it opened. "It wasn't a quick fix," he said.
The Post and Courier - Toll roads a tough sell in Palmetto State: Printer-friendly version - Charleston SC - postandcourier.com
 
simple.....gas tax covers users of all roads. Can't put a toll on every road. Plus toll roads slow traffic.... (not everyone has an e z pass)

Yup! +2 :D
 
...If you do not use any toll road or bridge often yet prefer gas tax, you still pay more tax money via gas because you eventually pay gas more often than using any toll road or bridge, right?
Not necessarily.

Gas Taxes
 
Road Warrior: Why are we letting toll cheats go scot-free?
Memo to Governor Christie and New Jersey Turnpike Authority Chairman Jim Simpson: Nice work on killing the free tolls and other perks that Turnpike Authorities employees have enjoyed for years.

Eliminating free rides and the annual bonuses that non-union employees collect for “cashing in” their unused sick days and vacation time could save a couple of million bucks at least.

But there’s an even bigger stash of expensive free rides you could retrieve. It’s the annual $14 million that toll cheats siphon from the bottom line of the turnpike and Garden State Parkway when they thumb their noses at electronic collection booths.

Yes, yes, we know, the Turnpike Authority sends notices to these spongers. The first notice demands payment plus a $25 fine. The second notice takes an angry tone and increases the fine. The third one ups the ante even more and gets really, really mad. And the fourth one.…

Well, those of us who pay these tolls might be surprised to learn that there seldom is a fourth notice or any sort of police investigation - unless a cheater’s tab hits the $3,000 range, which is rare.

For several years, the Turnpike Authority has kicked around ways to make these deadbeats pay up: Siccing collection agencies on cheats who alter license plates to evade E-ZPass cameras, or suspending the licenses or auto registrations of scofflaws who manage to sail through express E-ZPass lanes by obscuring their plates with coverings such as bike racks.

Actually, the sad truth is that most evaders usually aren’t clever enough to use these techniques. They just refuse to pay the bills they get in the mail. And there’s no sense suspending their E-ZPass accounts because many of them haven’t bothered to get accounts.

But what’s so hard about reporting them to credit bureaus?

So far, the Turnpike Authority seems content to send letters and suffer silently - except for occasional billboards warning of police crackdowns. Why? Is it because losses typically amount to less than 2 percent of the
agency’s gross annual toll revenue, which is nearly $1 billion? That slim percentage resembles the annual losses from retail shoplifting and credit card delinquencies in this country.

“Pretty remarkable, considering the recession,” said your spokesman.

I suppose so, except doing nothing - or nearly nothing - could make it seem as if this administration is afraid of riling voters who are already angry about high tolls, high taxes and what they perceive as “nanny state” enforcement.

But doing nothing - or very little - seems out of character for an administration run by a former U.S. attorney who prosecuted mobsters and crooked politicians, then as governor took on the powerful teachers union, environmental activists and the entire bridge and tunnel lobby. Going after sneaky toll cheats should be a cakewalk.

Nobody expects the state to get back the whole $13.6 million pilfered this way over the past 12 months.

Collection agencies, for example, would likely take half. But even half - a $7 million return - would approximate the savings expected from another highly touted Christie administration initiative - eliminating mechanical auto inspections. If it was worth it to gut a 72-year-old driving safety standard to save several million, shouldn’t it be worth it to save a few million by chasing down toll cheats?

With a little help from the Legislature, Trenton could send a strong message to scofflaws. Just ask the Senate and Assembly for a law allowing the state to suspend the licenses and auto registrations of these deadbeats.

Too strict? Too much trouble? OK, just report these cheats to credit bureaus, a simple deterrent that doesn’t require legislation.

Or perhaps New Jersey could get back most of the $7 million by offering a brief amnesty, as Illinois did a few years ago. Simply waive the late fees while insisting on getting back every penny of toll money.

Wouldn’t a genuine crackdown reinforce the austerity goals that have become the hallmark of the new administration? Consider this: If fares can be raised for rail and bus commuters and if perks can be taken from employees, why shouldn’t the deadbeats who reside much further down the food chain also share some of the pain?

Allowing this abuse to stand is tantamount to announcing that refusal to pay for the maintenance of two of New Jersey’s greatest treasures is tolerable.

It isn’t. Gangsters and greedy pols have gone to jail for stealing much less than $13.6 million.
 
Florida has too many toll roads, also they have gas tax too.

How's surprise.

That is obviously because the portion of the gas tax that goes to road maintenance is not sufficient to keep all of the roads in passable condition.
 
Simple.....Gas tax covers users of all roads. Can't put a toll on every road. Plus toll roads slow traffic.... (not everyone has an e z pass)

Poorly maintained roads slow traffic. And gas tax is not sufficient in many cases to properly maintain roads and bridges.

What is the problem with figuring the time into your travel schedule to cover the few seconds it takes to pass through a toll? I doubt the world will end if 2 more minutes of your day is spent in travel time.
 
Poorly maintained roads slow traffic. And gas tax is not sufficient in many cases to properly maintain roads and bridges.

What is the problem with figuring the time into your travel schedule to cover the few seconds it takes to pass through a toll? I doubt the world will end if 2 more minutes of your day is spent in travel time.

For a place like LA, it would be a total nightmare to have the toll booths on the highways. Just saying.
 
Poorly maintained roads slow traffic. And gas tax is not sufficient in many cases to properly maintain roads and bridges.

What is the problem with figuring the time into your travel schedule to cover the few seconds it takes to pass through a toll? I doubt the world will end if 2 more minutes of your day is spent in travel time.
It's a few seconds per car. Multiply that times the total number of cars for the real time delay.

On some stretches of roads in other states, some drivers pass thru more than one toll per day, so that has to also be calculated.

The toll money also has to cover toll employees, equipment, maintenance of facilities, and another department of bureaucracy. That is, increased expenses.
 
For a place like LA, it would be a total nightmare to have the toll booths on the highways. Just saying.

Yep. They could use a genius level city engineer working on their traffic issues. BTW...I amnot saying am for or against the use of tolls. Just pointing out the fallacy in the arguments against. And the ineffectiveness of the attitude, "I want good roads, but I don't want to have to pay for them with increased taxes or with tolls."
 
It's a few seconds per car. Multiply that times the total number of cars for the real time delay.

On some stretches of roads in other states, some drivers pass thru more than one toll per day, so that has to also be calculated.

The toll money also has to cover toll employees, equipment, maintenance of facilities, and another department of bureaucracy. That is, increased expenses.

And the gas taxes have to cover employees, equipment, maintenance of facilities, and a dept full of bureaucracy. That is a given in any situation. It isn't something that you get rid of by not using toll roads.
 
That is obviously because the portion of the gas tax that goes to road maintenance is not sufficient to keep all of the roads in passable condition.
The tolls that are being collected on SC's two toll roads aren't even enough to maintain those short sections. The other roads in the state that use gas tax money only get no benefit from toll money. If you look at the gas tax chart, you will see that compared to other states, SC doesn't even have a high gas tax percentage.
 
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