How do you get 5 yr. old to clean up mess?

[faire_jour]

I told her to pick up her toys and she refused, so I gave the order again, and she still refused. I then said get these toys put back in the bins then she just had a tantrum in which she was kicking and screaming, so I swatted her on the rump and then told her to pick up the toys or she was going to be in deeper trouble. Then she started putting the toys back in the bins.

I have no idea whats going on in her head, but I don't like spanking, but if it's to the point that being nice is no longer working, then I use it as 'positive pressure' so to speak. Using pressure (the spanking), to get her to do as told and therefore get the results I desire, her picking up the toys on the floor.

After she had the toys picked up and had calmed down, I explained to her that she had done a bad thing by taking all that stuff out when she knew not to, then didn't clean up after herself, and then when I told her to clean up her mess she still refused and disrespected me by throwing a fit which is unacceptable behavior, which resulted in her getting the spanking. It's really one event that lead to another and another, and I felt I had to put my foot down and be like "hey! this is not going to work" She's 5, she's pushing her limits, and she needs to know that rules are to be obeyed, adults are in charge for her own good, and that she must listen.

I believe that children are people too and no person deserves to be hit. We don't "give orders" in our home. If I wouldn't order my husband around like a slave, so I wouldn't do it to my child.

I believe in AP parenting, and we try to live as consensually as we can. http://www.consensual-living.com/Essay4.htm

 

[Dixie]

I dont order my child around like a slave. You shouldn't ask a child to do anything, a child should be told to do something, and not ordered. There is a difference.

In my opinion a child is told to clean their room, they are told to complete their homework, they are told to do things that are expected of them in the first place, but they are not doing it.

You can ask a child to help you decorate the front porch for 4th of July, you can ask a child to draw a picture for her sick cousin. You can ask a child to do things that are above and beyond the things they normally do, and when they go above and beyond what is expected of them without being asked, is when they receive a reward for having done so on their own will.

If a child does not do something that is expected of them (IE clean room, completed homework, chores, etc.) then they lose privileges such as video games, time with friends, etc. If they throw a temper tantrum in which they scream, shout, kick, yell and throw things, this behavior cannot be ignored, it has to be addressed in a way that gets the attention of the child. A single swat on the posterior is what I feel is appropriate in this case. This lets her know that the tantrum is not acceptable and will only lead her further into trouble.

You believe that spanking is abuse. Spanking is another tool of discipline, it is up to each individual parent on whether or not to use that tool. If you choose to use the tool, then you must do so with caution because spanking in the right hand can be good disciplinary reinforcement, spanking in the wrong hand can lead to abuse.

There have been countless people who were spanked as children, have become successful citizens, and have openly thanked their parents for spanking them as children.

 

[faire_jour]

I dont order my child around like a slave. You shouldn't ask a child to do anything, a child should be told to do something, and not ordered. There is a difference.

In my opinion a child is told to clean their room, they are told to complete their homework, they are told to do things that are expected of them in the first place, but they are not doing it.

You can ask a child to help you decorate the front porch for 4th of July, you can ask a child to draw a picture for her sick cousin. You can ask a child to do things that are above and beyond the things they normally do, and when they go above and beyond what is expected of them without being asked, is when they receive a reward for having done so on their own will.

If a child does not do something that is expected of them (IE clean room, completed homework, chores, etc.) then they lose privileges such as video games, time with friends, etc. If they throw a temper tantrum in which they scream, shout, kick, yell and throw things, this behavior cannot be ignored, it has to be addressed in a way that gets the attention of the child. A single swat on the posterior is what I feel is appropriate in this case. This lets her know that the tantrum is not acceptable and will only lead her further into trouble.

You believe that spanking is abuse. Spanking is another tool of discipline, it is up to each individual parent on whether or not to use that tool. If you choose to use the tool, then you must do so with caution because spanking in the right hand can be good disciplinary reinforcement, spanking in the wrong hand can lead to abuse.

There have been countless people who were spanked as children, have become successful citizens, and have openly thanked their parents for spanking them as children.

You are the one that said you ordered her.

I believe that a child is a person with opinions, feelings, wants and desires and just because I am bigger, doesn't mean that I am more important. If my child feels like she is frustrated and needs to scream and cry, so be it. I know that sometimes I get frustrated and need to cry too.

Also, if I don't do the dishes, no one takes away my TV for a week. I just do them the next day. Why shouild it be different for a child? When I am in school, if I don't do my homework, my "punishment" is falling behind in class, and getting a bad grade, why is it different for my child?

Why is assumed that children are untrustworthy and want to do badly and that we, as adults, need to push them into line???

And, just for the sake of argument, is it ok if my husband hits me just once in awhile, as long as it is for my own good, and not too hard?

 

[Lighthouse77]

I don't like spanking my child either. I usually put him in the corner LOL and the longer he cries and scream, the longer he stays there and he will not be allow to do anything else.

But there is a time I feel spanking is neccessary. Like my child run across the street.. I really want him to associate pain with danger so he doesn't end up in the hospital. I tell him, "you know, being hit by a car would hurt alot worth than spanking... think about it" ... Some people let their child discover what is hot with a one finger touch. But you know what, I think spanking is much safer than allowing your child learn the harder lesson.

There are teenagers today who do dangerous things like the choking game without considering the consequences. They think it will be safe. Sometimes I wonder if it is because parent shield pain from them so much. Of course, if you overdo it (the punishment), it does hurt their self esteem to the point they don't care. It's all about balance.

 

[shel90]

You are the one that said you ordered her.

I believe that a child is a person with opinions, feelings, wants and desires and just because I am bigger, doesn't mean that I am more important. If my child feels like she is frustrated and needs to scream and cry, so be it. I know that sometimes I get frustrated and need to cry too.

Also, if I don't do the dishes, no one takes away my TV for a week. I just do them the next day. Why shouild it be different for a child? When I am in school, if I don't do my homework, my "punishment" is falling behind in class, and getting a bad grade, why is it different for my child?

Why is assumed that children are untrustworthy and want to do badly and that we, as adults, need to push them into line???

And, just for the sake of argument, is it ok if my husband hits me just once in awhile, as long as it is for my own good, and not too hard?

The difference is that u are an adult and the child is a child.

Everyone raises their children differently and nobody should criticize others for how they raise their children.

If u thinking spanking is abuse, that's your opinion and your right not to use it as a method of discipline but u can't impose your beliefs about it on others.

I was spanked, even whipped by a belt or spoon by my parents and I don't feel that I was abused.

 

[faire_jour]

I don't like spanking my child either. I usually put him in the corner LOL and the longer he cries and scream, the longer he stays there and he will not be allow to do anything else.

But there is a time I feel spanking is neccessary. Like my child run across the street.. I really want him to associate pain with danger so he doesn't end up in the hospital. I tell him, "you know, being hit by a car would hurt alot worth than spanking... think about it" ... Some people let their child discover what is hot with a one finger touch. But you know what, I think spanking is much safer than allowing your child learn the harder lesson.

There are teenagers today who do dangerous things like the choking game without considering the consequences. They think it will be safe. Sometimes I wonder if it is because parent shield pain from them so much. Of course, if you overdo it (the punishment), it does hurt their self esteem to the point they don't care. It's all about balance.

I believe that if you explain to the child WHY they shouldn't run into the road (the danger) and then properly supervise them, there should not be a problem. Same with the "Choking game", explain why it is dangerous!

Why is it assumed that teens and children are idiots who don't care if they get hurt?

 

[Lighthouse77]

if you mean children do care about getting hurt, I wish that was true. I think a parent must had an easy child. I avoided spanking with my son for a long time, but he was just too much of a daredevil that I couldn't chase him around to prevent him from getting seriously hurt.

 

[Lighthouse77]

Y

Also, if I don't do the dishes, no one takes away my TV for a week. I just do them the next day. Why shouild it be different for a child? When I am in school, if I don't do my homework, my "punishment" is falling behind in class, and getting a bad grade, why is it different for my child?

No one takes your tv away because you are responsible for the tv. You brought it with your money, you pay for the electricity with your money. Your child does not. And we all know that if you got lazy and don't pay the bill, you'll lose your electricity (and if you didn't have a job, you won't even own the tv). That's your consequences. You know that if you don't do the dishes and some social worker come by, they may take your child away. There's another consequences.

so yes, something does get taken away from you when you don't take responsibilities. So you want to treat her like an little person? give her responsibilities like a real grown up.

as falling behind class, the teacher put that consequences there for your child for not doing her homework. If teachers can do that to your child, why can't parents set rules and consequences for breaking them in their house as well?

 

[Frisky Feline]

The difference is that u are an adult and the child is a child.

Everyone raises their children differently and nobody should criticize others for how they raise their children.

If u thinking spanking is abuse, that's your opinion and your right not to use it as a method of discipline but u can't impose your beliefs about it on others.

I agree.

 

[Bottesini]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Me too.

 

[jillio]

It is Day 3 and she is still working on the room, her toys are locked up in my closet and bagged up. She wants to argue with me when I give her direction on cleaning her room such as "Put your games back on the shelf." "match your shoes and put them in the shoe bin", etc. We finally got the majority of the toys put in the toy bins, but that was after a major meltdown in which she received a spanking.

I'm also liking the black bag thing. Get those huge ones, bag em' all up take em' over to the shop and reward her self-cleanliness by giving her stuff back one item at a time. I should tell her that once the item is in the bag consider it gone. I would love it if she eventually kept her room spot-free on her own.

I don't want to be completely draconian about it, but at the same time I want to teach her a lesson that she won't forget.

Ain't parenting fun? Stick by your guns, Dixie girl. It will be much easier the next time if you do.

 

[jillio]

I told her to pick up her toys and she refused, so I gave the order again, and she still refused. I then said get these toys put back in the bins then she just had a tantrum in which she was kicking and screaming, so I swatted her on the rump and then told her to pick up the toys or she was going to be in deeper trouble. Then she started putting the toys back in the bins.

I have no idea whats going on in her head, but I don't like spanking, but if it's to the point that being nice is no longer working, then I use it as 'positive pressure' so to speak. Using pressure (the spanking), to get her to do as told and therefore get the results I desire, her picking up the toys on the floor.

After she had the toys picked up and had calmed down, I explained to her that she had done a bad thing by taking all that stuff out when she knew not to, then didn't clean up after herself, and then when I told her to clean up her mess she still refused and disrespected me by throwing a fit which is unacceptable behavior, which resulted in her getting the spanking. It's really one event that lead to another and another, and I felt I had to put my foot down and be like "hey! this is not going to work" She's 5, she's pushing her limits, and she needs to know that rules are to be obeyed, adults are in charge for her own good, and that she must listen.

You are not over the top at all, Dixie. You are being a responsible parent. And you are teaching her a lesson that will prove valuable not just in this situation, but in the future, as well.

 

[jillio]

I believe that children are people too and no person deserves to be hit. We don't "give orders" in our home. If I wouldn't order my husband around like a slave, so I wouldn't do it to my child.

I believe in AP parenting, and we try to live as consensually as we can. Welcome to Consensual-Living.com - 3

Ahh, so no one's in charge in your home. I see family therapy in your near future.

 

[jillio]

You are the one that said you ordered her.

I believe that a child is a person with opinions, feelings, wants and desires and just because I am bigger, doesn't mean that I am more important. If my child feels like she is frustrated and needs to scream and cry, so be it. I know that sometimes I get frustrated and need to cry too.

Also, if I don't do the dishes, no one takes away my TV for a week. I just do them the next day. Why shouild it be different for a child? When I am in school, if I don't do my homework, my "punishment" is falling behind in class, and getting a bad grade, why is it different for my child?

Why is assumed that children are untrustworthy and want to do badly and that we, as adults, need to push them into line???

And, just for the sake of argument, is it ok if my husband hits me just once in awhile, as long as it is for my own good, and not too hard?

You do realize that there are major differences between a child and an adult, don't you? At least, there are supposed to be. Children are under the custody of a caregiver because they are not developmentally capable of making decisions in their own best interest. Any parent that leaves a young child to do so is neglectful in their obligation to parent their child.

Who said children want to do badly? Children want to do whatever pleases them at the moment. Children want to do things that can be harmful to them. It is a parent's responsibility to teach the lessons of childhood and to prevent children from making decisions for themselves that they are in no way ready to make.

But let's see how dedicated you are to this theory you say you live by. Let your daughter make the decision regarding her school placement and the amount of therapy and type of therapy she receives.

 

[jillio]

I believe that if you explain to the child WHY they shouldn't run into the road (the danger) and then properly supervise them, there should not be a problem. Same with the "Choking game", explain why it is dangerous!

Why is it assumed that teens and children are idiots who don't care if they get hurt?

If they are capable of understanding the "why", and of processing the scenario all the way through, they wouldn't need supervision. The fact that they do means that they are not capable of making these decisions on their own.

A child's frontal lobe does not fully mature until between 20 and 25 years of age. They are not developmentally capable of making decisions in the way that an adult does.

Who assumes kids are idiots that don't care if they get hurt? They are children for GAWD"S SAKE. It's not that they don't care. Its that developmentally they think they are invincible,and they do not have the capacity to think a situation through to the end and decide exactly what the dangers are.

 

[faire_jour]

Obviously, I have asked her what she wants and she said that she wants to attend both schools.

 

[VamPyroX]

That would be useful once the mess has been cleaned up. However, a parent must also be careful for rewarding behavior that is naturally expected in the family, because it is easy to give the child the message that they will be "paid" for doing what is naturally expected of them according to the family rules. Positive reinforcement for behavior that goes above and beyond the expected behavior is great. But providing positive reinforcement for that which is naturally expected can have the reverse effect of the one intended. You can very easily end up with a situation where a child refuses to follow any of the rules of the household unless they are given a reward for doing so.

Positive reinforcement is more useful in modifying behaviors that don't involve following rules of the house. Families are heirarchal. Children need to understand, particularly at the age of 5, that parents are the adults and they make the rules. Children follow those rules. Using positive reinforcement to manipulate child into following the parental rules kind of serves the purpose of putting the child in the position of making the rules, and the parent following them. That isn't to say that positive reinforcement is not a useful parenting technique...just that it needs to be used selectively.

Yeah, I know.

Positive reinforcement needs to be moderated.

Don't do it every single time or the kid will end up like Pavlov's dog.

Make it a surprise if the kid does it. More of a random reward than every single time.

If you're with another adult and the kid is with you, you can talk about how wonderful your kid did.

"Oh, did you know that he cleaned his room yesterday! I'm so proud of him. He's a big boy!"

 

[jillio]

Yeah, I know.

Positive reinforcement needs to be moderated.

Don't do it every single time or the kid will end up like Pavlov's dog.

Make it a surprise if the kid does it. More of a random reward than every single time.

If you're with another adult and the kid is with you, you can talk about how wonderful your kid did.

"Oh, did you know that he cleaned his room yesterday! I'm so proud of him. He's a big boy!"

LOL @ Pavlov's dog! And, agreed. Praise is the best form of positive reinforcement.

 

[Babyblue]

Obviously, I have asked her what she wants and she said that she wants to attend both schools.

Giving a child what they want, is different from providing what a parent feels best.

Child expressed what she likes. Now it is up to the parent to make a choice.

How old is miss Kat? Surely she does not understand which is best at the moment in regards of her education.

 

[jillio]

Obviously, I have asked her what she wants and she said that she wants to attend both schools.

That's a kid for you. They choose things that are beyond the realm of possibility. That's why they have parents and guardians to make decisions for them based on realistic possibilities.