It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

[jillio]

When parents find out their child is deaf... that's the start of a new life.
No matter what choices are made.

Think about these choices:
A: Choosing for the child to be able to hear, so it can communicate fully in the already established circle of friends and family, having full access to their mode of communication.
B: Choosing for the child to stay deaf, so it cannot communicate with the established circle of friends, family, having limited acces AND looking for a new circle, totally separate from the established ones, where communication can be established, with a totally new language.

Again, cloggy, you are missing the point of the thread. This is not about CI, or the choice to get one or not get one. This is about cultural exposure, and providing a child with an environment that allows them to explore all of the possibilities available to them, not just the ones from the hearing perspective. CI has absolutely nothing to do with that.

 

[jillio]

It is bad to take a few individuals and assume that their beliefs represent the whole population.

I have to say something here though. I am not quite sure why some deaf people are upset at hearing parents HERE on AD. Isn't the fact that they made the effort to come on AD and listen to other deaf people show that they do want to interact with the deaf community? They don't even have to come here at all nor talk to other deaf people AT ALL. It seems to me that they don't reject the deaf community, but rather they just defend their choices on their child. To me, rejection of the deaf community is not even interacting with them at all, not defending your choices for your child.

Coming to a deaf message board, and actually paying attention to what you are told by deaf members, accepting it and integrating it into your perspective is great. However, coming to a deaf message board without doing so only increases the divide.

And a parent sitting behind a computer does not provide exposure on the level the child needs to see. Interaction is the key.

 

[jillio]

I have just reviewed this entire thread, and have found a total of 14 posts where a poster has disagreed with another's opinion, but has managed to say, in different ways, "I understand what you are saying, and it is valid." That has come exclusively from deaf posters. I have yet to find a post where a hearing parent has responded by validating a deaf person's perspective even if they disagree with it. What I have found, is several posts from hearing parents telling the deaf posters that their perspective is wrong. That, my friends, is what causes the problems and the disagreement, and the defensiveness. That is the same pattern I have seen for years repeating itself right here in black and white. If you, as a hearing parent, want your feelings validated and listened to, you must, must, must do the same for the other side. If you don't, you are creating yourself the situation that makes you feel rejected, by rejecting the validity of another's perspective and forcing them to approach you from the defensive position.

 

[Daredevel7]

I'm going to ask you to step back for a moment and try to separate Buffalo's feelings regarding the CI from the "rejection" of a deaf individual (adult or child) who comes to the community looking for friendship and understanding. Just because Buffalo does not agree with implantation does not mean that she is rejecting all who have chosen that path.

It would seem that it is all too easy to place the focus on a devise, rather than on the person using the devise. They are two separate things.

No I understand. I was trying to use an example to show how one deaf person's statement can add fuel to the fire, even if the fire was ignited by the hearing person himself. Everyone is guilty of prejudice (the "fire") at one point or the other. Right now, the Deaf community stereotype does not look good. We all wish that everyone would just get over the stereotype and realize that it's just a community of individuals, but alas. Unfortunately, the few keep on reinforcing the stereotypes. From the hearing parents perspective, they wish that that the select few would just shut up and be more accepting for the sake of their child. From the deaf people perspective, they wish that the parents would just accept that every community has its extreme members and they just need to get over their comments/not let their comments scare them away.

I am going to refrain from using CI as an example because I don't want this to be a CI/no CI argument.

 

[jillio]

No I understand. I was trying to use an example to show how one deaf person's statement can add fuel to the fire, even if the fire was ignited by the hearing person himself. Everyone is guilty of prejudice (the "fire") at one point or the other. Right now, the Deaf community stereotype does not look good. We all wish that everyone would just get over the stereotype and realize that it's just a community of individuals, but alas. Unfortunately, the few keep on reinforcing the stereotypes. From the hearing parents perspective, they wish that that the select few would just shut up and be more accepting for the sake of their child. From the deaf people perspective, they wish that the parents would just accept that every community has its extreme members and they just need to get over their comments/not let their comments scare them away.

I am going to refrain from using CI as an example because I don't want this to be a CI/no CI argument.

Great! We're on the same page. My next question would be, (not directed at you,particularly), to those that are tired of the stereotypes....what exactly are you doing on a personal and individual level to change those stereotypes? Are you reinforcing them, or doing what you can to dispel them?

 

[Daredevel7]

Here is a question I'd like to ask the hearing parents: If no one makes a negative comment about CI/oral/whatever, would that have change anything about how you chose to raise your child?

 

[deafskeptic]

Hmm... This is a very thought provoking thread. Where do I begin?

I think a lot of it has to do with the parents' attitude and bias toward speech and being able to hear just like everyone else. Sign language makes it very clear that the child isn't hearing. There are times when I think the whole point of oralism is to hide deafness as much as possible.

You'd be surprised at what some hearing say to me because they think I'm more like them then the other deaf because of my speech and I tried very hard to like them as much as possible when i was younger.

They'll say things like my thoughts must be more advanced than X because I have good speech. When I mentioned that some deaf got placed in classes for the MR when they were in the to my mother, she said to me that clearly they learned so little in school so that they deserve to be there. If you have an attitude like that you'll not get very far with the Deaf community even if you don't say so explicitly. Others will pick up on your attitude sooner or later and they won't be so friendly to you. Worse, your relationship with your deaf child will suffer as a result. No one likes to be treated like a second class citizen.

 

[jillio]

Hmm... This is a very thought provoking thread. Where do I begin?

I think a lot of it has to do with the parents' attitude and bias toward speech and being able to hear just like everyone else. Sign language makes it very clear that the child isn't hearing. There are times when I think the whole point of oralism is to hide deafness as much as possible.

You'd be surprised at what some hearing say to me because they think I'm more like them then the other deaf because of my speech and I tried very hard to like them as much as possible when i was younger.

They'll say things like my thoughts must be more advanced than X because I have good speech. When I mentioned that some deaf got placed in classes for the MR when they were in the to my mother, she said to me that clearly they learned so little in school so that they deserve to be there. If you have an attitude like that you'll not get very far with the Deaf community even if you don't say so explicitly. Others will pick up on your attitude sooner or later and they won't be so friendly to you. Worse, your relationship with your deaf child will suffer as a result. No one likes to be treated like a second class citizen.

I agree, deafskeptic. I think it is much more about the underlying attitude that governs the behavior than most would care to admit.

 

[jillio]

Here is a question I'd like to ask the hearing parents: If no one makes a negative comment about CI/oral/whatever, would that have change anything about how you chose to raise your child?

Excellent question, Daredevel. I would love to see some responses to this.

 

[Liza]

It does not feel good being attacked or accused in a broad sense when I see that in others' language, and I don't feel motivated to respond to anything of that kind. For me, my goal in any discussion is to learn ~ not to get engaged in cynical arguments. I feel we get nowhere very fast on that point. There's no progress.

This thread happens to interest me because I don't know a lot about the bigger picture, and I feel we have a chance of achieving that if we can be cool about our differences and learning from each other.

 

[jillio]

It does not feel good being attacked or accused in a broad sense when I see that in others' language, and I don't feel motivated to respond to anything of that kind. For me, my goal in any discussion is to learn ~ not to get engaged in cynical arguments that are full of personal accusatories. I feel we get nowhere very fast on that point. There's no progress.

This thread happens to interest me because I don't know a lot about the bigger picture, and I feel we have a chance of achieving that if we can be cool about our differences and learning from each other.

Exactly, Liza. My intent was to provide for a learning experience from both sides. Not just learning about each other, but perhaps coming to some new found personal insight regarding ourselves and our attitudes. That will not occur as long as we point the finger outward and attempt to make others resposnible for our feelings rather than owning them ourselves. When I called for honesty, I meant self honesty, as well.

 

[Tousi]

Now, if only we could transfer the positive dynamics Jillio desires from this thread to the political arena, *cough, cough*, nevermind me, folks. Carry on.....

 

[jillio]

I am going to answer based on my mother's answers to me. When my mother asked for assistanced she felt rejected. My hearing loss was found when I was 3 and my mother tried to find the appropriate educational placement for me and was refused. She then made a choice for oral education. My daily life did not have contact with HOH or deaf individuals. I lived in the country our neighbors were the cows. I only had one deaf individual in all my years of school as a friend. I didn't seek since I did not feel the connection.

Absolutley, I had high hopes and dreams for my son's future. Those hopes and dreams did not change when I found out he was deaf. I just had to find an alternate method for showing him that those hopes and dreams were possible, and that included exposing him to the Deaf Culture that could show him, in a very real way, that he could achieve anything he wanted to achieve. Children need concrete example in order to relate. Telling him that, given that I was hearing, didn't have much impact. Always available is the reply, "But it isn't the same for you. You are hearing." That excuse is not available when shown a successful deaf role model. My child did not need to be hearing, or to be protected from exposure to the deaf community in order for me to have high expectations of him. I had them no matter. Exposure to the deaf community showed him that he could, indeed, live up to those expectations as a deaf individual.

 

[jillio]

Now, if only we could transfer the positive dynamics Jillio desires from this thread to the political arena, *cough, cough*, nevermind me, folks. Carry on.....

It would be wonderful, Tousi, but lets not set goals so high they can't be reached.

 

[Hermes]

If you, as a hearing parent, want your feelings validated and listened to, you must, must, must do the same for the other side. If you don't, you are creating yourself the situation that makes you feel rejected, by rejecting the validity of another's perspective and forcing them to approach you from the defensive position.

Its very well said, but you know you can reverse it and say same thing for deaf people and their relationship with hearing ones. This can go as a message to all people as something they should pay attention.

-

 

[jillio]

Its very well said, but you know you can reverse it and say same thing for deaf people and their relationship with hearing ones. This can go as a message to all people as something they should pay attention.

-

Agreed. In fact, I believe I stated that in several of my replies.

 

[Tousi]

It would be wonderful, Tousi, but lets not set goals so high they can't be reached.

Uh Oh, Jillio! We better let this lie lest there be a breach in this thread. Sorry for the off-topic.

Seriously, I really am not sure what to contribute here.

 

[jillio]

Uh Oh, Jillio! We better let this lie lest there be a breach in this thread. Sorry for the off-topic.

Seriously, I really am not sure what to contribute here.

Yep, back on topic. Think about it for awhile. I'm sure you have some valuable insight, given the experiences you have had both personally and professionally.

 

[Angel]

One thing I keep seeing repeatedly is some deaf people telling hearing parents that they must sign with their deaf children or the type of education they must chose for their child, I personally think that the hearing parents do not like to be critized.

There could be a lot of reasons why some hearing parents do not sign, perhaps one could be that they are around hearing people more than they are with deaf people OR they do not turn off their voices completely and sign to their deaf children on a daily basis . Who knows My hearing parents still do not sign and no matter how many times I've told them to, nothing has changed but I still love them anyways.

 

[vallee]

I have a question, Where are all the parents???? So many have left alldeaf that I am not sure that you are going to get a valid answer. I wonder why many of them left or didn't join?