Oralists gone wild...............

Foxrac said:
I filtered it out but nearly 300 posts to left.

What is date whichever you remember? I tried keyword "video", "speech" and "deaf" to shorten the list, but no luck.
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Read Jiro's latest post (#58).
 
TXgolfer said:
I feel sorry for ... their teachers now being forced to move.
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But didn't they choose to be teachers? Isn't that the American way? Economics 101? If they had worked harder, they would be executives in a large company, no worries about job loss or money shortages.

Alright, sarcasm mode has ended.

You don't feel sorry for most other workers. You have made that clear for many years here, that everyone gets what they deserve based on the effort expended. Why this particular group?

BTW, I agree with you; nothing to celebrate here. Someone profited from the mismanagement of funds, and the students/parents/school staff will pay the price.
 
saywhatkid said:
But didn't they choose to be teachers? Isn't that the American way? Economics 101? If they had worked harder, they would be executives in a large company, no worries about job loss or money shortages.

Alright, sarcasm mode has ended.

You don't feel sorry for most other workers. You have made that clear for many years here, that everyone gets what they deserve based on the effort expended. Why this particular group?

BTW, I agree with you; nothing to celebrate here. Someone profited from the mismanagement of funds, and the students/parents/school staff will pay the price.
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Glad we agree.

As for your question in the middle, I believe you have mischaracterized my position. IF this article were about these teachers complaining about not being able to afford a timeshare in Cabo, I would say "well, they made their choice. They knew that the pay would be bad going in." That doesn't mean I believe they are paid what they deserve. I would love to see teachers and civil servants be paid more. Unfortunately, that is difficult to do when salaries are paid from tax dollars.

As for this situation, I believe these teachers (and teachers who work at deaf schools) serve a higher purpose, so it is even more heartbreaking IMO when they lose their jobs and are separated from their students. That being said I think it is sad when most people lose their jobs. I make exceptions for union bosses and certain politicians. Incompetents as well, but I repeat myself. :lol:
 
It would not make any difference because the AGBAD and Oralists would cheer that any schools for the Deaf where ASL is their primary communication, is being closed.
 
Royale said:
It would not make any difference because the AGBAD and Oralists would cheer that any schools for the Deaf where ASL is their primary communication, is being closed.
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So true...they don't care for us.

Deaf schools do offer speech therapy and spoken English and these oral schools ban ASL. No sympathy for these people. I feel bad for the kids though.
 
Royale said:
It would not make any difference because the AGBAD and Oralists would cheer that any schools for the Deaf where ASL is their primary communication, is being closed.
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If true, matching their behavior doesn't do any good. Two wrongs don't make a right. Aim to be the side that takes the high road. Just my 2 cents.
 
shel90 said:
So true...they don't care for us.

Deaf schools do offer speech therapy and spoken English and these oral schools ban ASL. No sympathy for these people. I feel bad for the kids though.
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It's just a different philosophy. A philosophy that these parents felt is best for their children.....and perhaps for some it is.
 
TXgolfer said:
It's just a different philosophy. A philosophy that these parents felt is best for their children.....and perhaps for some it is.
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Here's a question. How would you like to be raised under a philosophy that ignores your strenghs and dictates that you need to Function As Normally As Possible? Imagine having a defiect and being educated SOLELY to remediate that defiect. Kids who are educated orally, are in what amounts to an eternal speech therapy session. That is what oralism is. Most Schools and programs for the Deaf DO offer oral training and speech therapy.
 
TXgolfer said:
Again, I think it is pretty sad to cheer for the demise of others. Good people who care about deaf children lost their jobs. Deaf kids will likely be separated from their friends. Parents of deaf children may have to uproot their family to be close to another good school.

Good people were hurt here. That is sad.

Personally, I hope they find out who mismanaged the funds and hold those people accountable.
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These experts don't really give a crap about deaf children. They just want to feel like they're "restoring an outcast to society"
Yes, it sucks that a school ended....I have friends who have fond memories of oral schools/programs....but many of those who are cheering the demise of this program were oral school alumn themselves! I think that says something.
And yes, it sucks that parents of deaf kids may have to move .......but that's the reality of a life with a low incidence disabled kid....educational services for them vary signficiently.
 
deafdyke said:
Here's a question. How would you like to be raised under a philosophy that ignores your strenghs and dictates that you need to Function As Normally As Possible? Imagine having a defiect and being educated SOLELY to remediate that defiect. Kids who are educated orally, are in what amounts to an eternal speech therapy session. That is what oralism is. Most Schools and programs for the Deaf DO offer oral training and speech therapy.
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Everyone here is clear that you disagree with their teaching methods. IMO that does not justify cheering their demise. I would feel the same way if they were celebrating the demise of an ASL school. I prefer to be tolerant of parental choice. That's just me.
 
deafdyke said:
These experts don't really give a crap about deaf children. They just want to feel like they're "restoring an outcast to society"
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I don't believe this at all and I think that is a hateful thing to say. There is absolutely no reason at all to believe these teachers don't love and care about those kids just as much as the teachers in a deaf school. No reason at all. They just have a different philosophy. Not better. Not worse. Just different.
 
TXgolfer said:
It's just a different philosophy. A philosophy that these parents felt is best for their children.....and perhaps for some it is.
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Historically, people with the oralism philosophy has always looked down on ASL. I have had experience with comments like "Look at those kids doing whatever they do with their hands. It is a shame."
" You dont need sign language..you are too smart for it."

and many more.

Left a bad taste in my mouth for life.

Like I said, no sympathy.
 
shel90 said:
Historically, people with the oralism philosophy has always looked down on ASL. I have had experience with comments like "Look at those kids doing whatever they do with their hands. It is a shame."
" You dont need sign language..you are too smart for it."

and many more.

Left a bad taste in my mouth for life.

Like I said, no sympathy.
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That is horrible. If I ever see that I will certainly call them out.
 
TXgolfer said:
That is horrible. If I ever see that I will certainly call them out.
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Yes, in 4 years ago, I went to Walmart for shopping in my area and I spotted the deaf girl with CI. I tried to greet with ASL but her parent prevented me from using ASL to her because they don't allow their daughter to use ASL to communicate so they forced her to use oral only (started in 5th grade). At earlier time, she was former ASL user. Her parent asked why I didn't got CI and use the oral language - I explained - I had CI (Nucleus 22) and had speech therapy, so my speech therapy went unsuccessful, they turned to gulped and know that oral language isn't work for all deaf people. After her daughter had extremely struggled with high school (9th grade) and the school had to found an ASL interpreter after her parent decided to let her use ASL rather than oral, but eventually, she went to ASD (deaf school) and she's in senior now so will be graduate this May.

The oral language works better if start at born, not late childhood like parent's daughter and she's smart girl.
 
shel90 said:
Historically, people with the oralism philosophy has always looked down on ASL. I have had experience with comments like "Look at those kids doing whatever they do with their hands. It is a shame."
" You dont need sign language..you are too smart for it."

and many more.

Left a bad taste in my mouth for life.

Like I said, no sympathy.
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This. This totally. I might have some sympathy if they promoted oralism as a good additional skill. Like in the UK there is a school that is oral, but BSL is 100% accepted...it's in the background. It's just not used in the classroom. (I disagree with this) But there are children who attend the program to improve their speech abilities for example......But the mentality is just SO " you're nothing unless you can TALK TALK TALK! Speech is the BEST!"
 
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