Is it Offensive to Talk while among a Deaf crowd?

[Cheri]

It is apparent right there that you dont care about Deaf culture so why keep arguing.

I don't think that's it, if you think about it, vast majority of deaf have hearing parents, and the majority of the deaf were fully mainstreamed in regular education classes with or without the support of sign language interpreters. It doesn't mean they flat out don't care or is trying to be disrespectful to the Deaf Culture, not everyone were raised the same. Learning sign language takes time, so is learning about the Deaf Culture. I don't think it has anything to do with being disrespectful. From what I've heard that Gallaudet has a horrible reputation of how others were being treated. Some people that comes on AD speaks for itself. I've seen threads that were made that had complained about their following deaf people at Gallaudet.

 

[shel90]

I don't think that's it, if you think about it, vast majority of deaf have hearing parents, and the majority of the deaf were fully mainstreamed in regular education classes with or without the support of sign language interpreters. It doesn't mean they flat out don't care or is trying to be disrespectful to the Deaf Culture, not everyone were raised the same. Learning sign language takes time, so is learning about the Deaf Culture. I don't think it has anything to do with being disrespectful. From what I've heard that Gallaudet has a horrible reputation of how others were being treated. Some people that comes on AD speaks for itself. I've seen threads that were made that had complained about their following deaf people at Gallaudet.

He said "So what?" So, if that's the case, then why does he keep arguing about whether it is rude or not? If he doesnt believe it is, then that's fine but I get the feeling he is trying to change other people's beliefs to believe in the same thing as him. I am just wondering why continue argue about it if he doesnt care? It doesnt make sense to me. *scratching my head*

About the issues of acceptance in Deaf culture based on one's upbringing..we have already had that discussion in many other threads years ago. I am not talking about that as I have already stated my opinions and feelings about that. I am talking about those who say that they want to be accepted in Deaf culture but say that they dont need to learn ASL or wont sign (if they know ASL) at a Deaf social or at Gallaudet. That's a different issue, IMO. If u think otherwise, then that's fine. I am not going to object.

Back to the issue...to me, when someone says "So what?" it tells me that they dont care.

 

[Cheri]

I believe he is saying "so what" at the fact that those two people may get a negative reaction by others if they are not signing to each others.

 

[shel90]

I believe he is saying "so what" at the fact that those two people may get a negative reaction by others if they are not signing to each others.

Right...and Deaf people care if two signers choose not to sign at Gallaudet among a crowd of deaf people because it is considered rude.

I have a feeling we are either making wrong assumptions about Kokonut or misunderstanding each other. Maybe if we were in person, we can probably be able to clarify more clear. Who knows? Kinda hard to do it on a message board.

 

[kokonut]

It is apparent right there that you dont care about Deaf culture so why keep arguing. It seems that you will do whatever you want and like I said, it is a free country. I dont think you would really care if you get a negative reaction. You have been getting that all over on AD so why focus on such a "trivial" thing?

Um, I already said that people may find that situation "rude" and that's fine, understandable. But what are you/they going to do about it? Go up there and tell them to stop talking??? To me, it is trivial because they are not bothering anyone except those who think otherwise. There's a time and a place but in that situation it is certainly not. I've already described the exact situation. Two unknown persons talking to each other at a table, alone in their conversations in one area of a food court on the campus of Gallaudet bothering no one and they happen to wear either a HA or CI.

 

[shel90]

Um, I already said that people may find that situation "rude" and that's fine, understandable. But what are you going to do about it? Go up there and tell them to stop talking??? To me, it is trivial because they are not bothering anyone except those who think otherwise. There's a time and a place but in that situation it is certainly not.

What will I do about it? I will continue to have fun with my friends and enjoy my time with them. As for other Deaf people, I dont control what they do or dont do. Fine, it is trivial to you but you cant tell other people what is trivial to them or not. Everyone is different.

I would worry more about texting and driving than this. LOL!

 

[kokonut]

Right. It's trivial to me because I don't know the situation with the two people talking as they are unknown people. The same thing applies to two unknown hearing people in that same scenario. Who am I to judge them to say what they are doing is rude if I don't even know their background, their reason for being on campus and so on. I am not even in the position to even think such a thing. Like you said, I go about my merry ways and shrug my shoulders and "So what?" Gallaudet get thousands of visitors every year who visit the campus for a variety of reasons such as to seek their services, visit the Gally museum, attend a conference (Kellogg Hall for example), attend an event, and so on. I am not going to waste my time to speculate about two unknown people talking amongst themselves bothering no one.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A question and a little twist from a previous thread about whether it's offensive to sign in public ( http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/67941-offensive-sign-public.html ).

Let's say a couple that obviously wear a hearing aid or cochlear implant walk into an eatery section inside a mall, say Mall of Georgia, and come across a huge group (say 80 people) of Deaf people signing away during their monthly get-together. The couple continues to talk and order food and then proceed to the nearest table amongst the crowd. They sit down and begin their conversations with each using their voice. Would this be considered offensive by Deaf people for them to talk verbally in a public place such as I have described in the above? What about using the cell phone to talk while there?

Secondly, would it be offensive to talk into a cell phone (the person is alone), say, on a Deaf campus when it is plainly obvious the person wears a hearing aid or cochlear implant?

Have at it.

Well, I do not consider it as an offensive but arrogance and brag if HOH and CI user know sign language or we know them.

It would be nice if they use sign language for Deaf/deaf people.

I speak out of my own experience.

Example of all: Spa resort for the hearing-impaired, I stayed for 5 weeks 3 years ago - there´re many CI users, HA users, HOH and deaf people around - they use sign languages because they do not want deaf people feel left out when they speak each other front of them or go next table. It´s really nice thoughtful of them. Some of them moviated to learn sign language with deaf people.

Another example: 2 hearing persons, one American hearing lady *Tanja* married to a deaf American pastor. She can sign both ASL and German language pretty good and became good friend with hearing German lady *Carola* few years later before they met me and my family. We became friends and see each other time to time. *Carola* was very motivate to learn sign language. One day we (3 women) were at *Tanja*´s kitchen, helping with foods and drink. *Carola* signed to *Tanja* front of me. *Tanja* was upset... Of course I asked *Tanja* what´s wrong... Guess what? She said that she don´t like *Carola* sign to her because they both are hearing. Can you image how I feel when *Tanja* said this to me because she knew very well that I am deaf. I polite told *Tanja* that I beleive that *Carola* is only doing for me and make sure that I won´t left out. Tanja´s face went red... I look at both and then excuse myself, saying that I check my hubby and Tanja´s husband at living room and then left kitchen quiet to be with my hubby and boys and *Tanja*´s deaf husband then we can sign to leave 2 hearing women alone. I consider Tanja´s behavior as an ignorant and arrogance, not offensive or rude.

Other example at BBQ festival at Deaf community, I saw 2 HOH persons sat next some deaf people. (I know them very well). I sat next to them, told them in friendly way to sign. They were like OOppphs and happy to sign... After that we have great time.... It´s nice of them. I would consider them as arrogance and brag if they said that they don´t want sign but speak... and tell me none of business when they know sign language and IN deaf community...

Would you consider it as "none of my business" like what you mentioned some of your posts, Kokonut?


For cell phone front of deaf people is a rude. It was liking arrogance and brag because you can talk on the phone, we don´t. I know some HOH people said... excuse me, and check to make sure either the call is emergency or not... If the call is not emergency then talk a few secs ...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I agree...but if they dont know sign language, what then?

It´s understandable if they don´t know sign language or we don´t know them. Just leave them alone...

Why would it be the Deaf people business on how those two prefer to communicate?

It is not their business to begin with.

It would be nice to use sign for deaf people if they know sign language. IMO.

SEE, PSE are not accepted languages of the Deaf Community.

ASL is the language of the Deaf Community.

May I ask you a question.

Why form of sign language are not accept to Deaf Community except ASL?

Why can´t they learn to accept form of sign language, we have ...?

I viewed some of ASL videos in several threads, I can´t follow their ASL without lip movement. It doesn´t mean that I am oralist or use form sign language different than ASL without lip movement... Yes, I am total deaf but need to read their lip movement... Would they accept me if I rather to follow their lip movement while they use ASL ?

Says who? Just because someone is deaf doesn't mean they know ASL, as has been pointed out many times in this thread. So do Deaf people walk around pissed that I can access both spoken language and ASL, and can "hear everybody's conversations"?

If two Japanese people are speaking Japanese, and know English as well, it is none of my damn buisness if they choose to speak Japanese. It is their conversation and their choice.

Maybe the deaf person can not communicate freely in ASL, does your need to easedrop trump their need for accessable and free communication?

You compared apple and orange.

It doesn´t bother us when we saw the people speak their own language than English everywhere to the public because we don´t know them. It´s hearing community, not Deaf community.

At Gallaudet University, there are people signing in languages from different countries.

Spoken languages are out in the hearing world. At Gallaudet, it is sign language whether it is LSQ, SLL, ASL, or Auslan.

Yes, that´s right. Some of my German friends went there before. They did not feel left out when they were in deaf crowd because they sign...

Two people
Private conversation
Go someplace private...

Same with two signers who want to have a private conversation...they go someplace private to carry on their conversation..


Same for two hearing people who want to have a private conversation..they go someplace private so other hearing people wont overhear their conversations.

If two people want a private conversation but have it among deaf signers knowing that they wont understand their conversation, that's taking advantage of their deafness which goes beyond rude..it is offensive.

Exactly

Why do they must know their conversation? Do you stare at hearing people at a restaurant trying to figure out what they're talking about? Why do deaf signers must know what the two people are talking about when they're sitting by themselves together? It's a public place, there's no rules that you cannot have a private conversation out at any public places.

My boys can hear what they talking about. Sometimes my boys told me something interesting what they overheard their talking... because hearing people don´t mind to speak to the public for everyone to hear... if they want private then they can whisper each other in their ears. My co-workers also interpreted me what they heard someone talk to the public or in the canteen where we eat every Friday... there´re no secret... everyone can hear it... This is a hearing world... my boys know everything thru hear everywhere they walk to the public... sometimes they are not interesting... they HEAR when they notice from hear something interesting news.

And u NEVER have overheard any conversations at any public places in your lifetime? NEVER? Not even by accident?

I NEVER beleive if some people claimed that they NEVER overheard any conversation...

I am an oralist? I don't know ASL? Okay. I'll allow some people on AD who met me in real life that can tell you if that's true or not.

True, I met you in real life that you use ASL with lip movement. You can do anything with ASL.

 

[rockdrummer]

Why on earth would anyone enter a bastion of Deaf Culture and then intentionally disrespect the traditions and values of that culture? And moreover, be surprised, shocked, or insulted when they receive the expected reaction? Is it complete oblivion, or an intentional attempt to garner a reaction that can later be used to cast dispersions on Deaf Culture?

This is not a situation peculiar to Deaf Culture. Enter into a haven of any culture, and behave disrespectfully toward that culture, and you will get negative reactions in return.

Why would one assume that it is an intentional disrespect? I would not assume that just because someone is deaf that they know sign language. Many don't. I would not feel disrespected if a bunch of native signers came to an public school and used their native language. That would not be fair of me. Especially if sign language is the only way they know how to communicate. Does the rule apply in both directions? Maybe I have missed the point.

 

[shel90]

Liebling...if one is moving their mouh using English order and signing at the same time, he/she is not using ASL.

 

[Jiro]

I consider Tanja´s behavior as an ignorant and arrogance, not offensive or rude.

I wouldn't say Tanja was being ignorant/arrogant. Just simply a case of unawareness. She got embarrassed so that's good because it means she acknowledged her mistake. However - if she scoffed at it or continued to be upset about it.... now that's really ignorant of her.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I wouldn't say Tanja was being ignorant/arrogant. Just simply a case of unawareness. She got embarrassed so that's good because it means she acknowledged her mistake. However - if she scoffed at it or continued to be upset about it.... now that's really ignorant of her.

I think her friend Tanja felt insulted by her friends for signing to her. Some hearing people do find it insulting when other people treat them as deaf. Sadly, but true.

If you intentionally start speaking in front of signing people, knowing that they would not understand, because you think it is funny or something.. It is rude. But I don't think they really cared if they were rude or not because they meant to be rude. It is also rude to talk about deaf people in front of them because you think they can't hear you anyway. It does not that gives you the right to talk about them around them. People need to think before they speak, what if they heard/understood them, would they still say it ????

 

[Cheri]

Liebling...if one is moving their mouh using English order and signing at the same time, he/she is not using ASL.

I was not using English word order when I was signing in ASL. I only use English word order when I sign in SEE. Many of those ADers that I've met had mouthed their words as they sign in ASL, So did Liebling.

You think when signing ASL you are required to be mute, no mouth movements, no voice?

 

[shel90]

So you were using ASL morphemes with you mouth, then?

No voice because ASL is not a spoken language.

 

[rockdrummer]

So you were using ASL morphemes with you mouth, then?

No voice because ASL is not a spoken language.

Aren't there English words in ASL? Why if someone is mouthing the English word while signing in ASL would it not be considered using ASL? I'm just curious..

 

[shel90]

Aren't there English words in ASL? Why if someone is mouthing the English word while signing in ASL would it not be considered using ASL? I'm just curious..

English words in ASL? Iam not sure what you mean as I see English and ASL as totally separate languages unless you mean fingerspelling?

 

[CJB]

For anyone to integrate into any community, effort has to be made on both sides. The community has to make the effort to take the person in and the person has to make the effort to learn the community's social norms and values. The Deaf community is no different.

 

[shel90]

For anyone to integrate into any community, effort has to be made on both sides. The community has to make the effort to take the person in and the person has to make the effort to learn the community's social norms and values. The Deaf community is no different.

Exactly...there are many Deaf people who are very understanding about people from different backgrounds while there are some that aren't. my brother and I were just telling his friend from AZ about why we don't hang out with one particular MD Deaf community because several members tend to judge other deaf people based on their backgrounds. It is fine with me because I chose not to associate with them and it is a choice I made. However, I do not go around complaining nor btiching about them and demanding them to change their ways to accept me.
On the other hand, I won't associate with people who complain about, question, or make demands of my Deaf friend and I to meet their ways without making an effort to meet our ways. I will accept anyone from any background but if they tell me that they think ASL is a dumb language, put down the Deaf community, have disrespect against Deaf culture, or refusing to sign around us even if they do know it...I won't be interested in getting to know them more. Doesn't matter if they are deaf or hearing themselves.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

English words in ASL? Iam not sure what you mean as I see English and ASL as totally separate languages unless you mean fingerspelling?

I think rockdrummer might be mixing up things like... the mouth movement for "big" is the same for the mouth morpheme (CHA) for "big" in ASL.