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Perhaps you should let the Jews decide what the meaning of Zionist is and how it should apply.:cool2:
 
The same way you let Christians decide what is the meaning of Christianity and the Bible, and how it should be applied?

That would be nice.
 
Wish I could I hit the "like" button like some 20 times but can only get one like. Drats.
 
Although I'm sympathetic to the situation, life isn't freakin Burger King, you don't get it any way you want it.

Decide away...
 
Reba said:
The same way you let Christians decide what is the meaning of Christianity and the Bible, and how it should be applied?

That would be nice.
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I don't apply Christianity to anything. And the Christians can't even agree on the meaning of the Bible, or haven't you noticed how many Christian denominations are out there?:laugh2:

But seriously, what is it about Christianity that makes people overly defensive and makes them think that everything is about them?
 
jillio said:
I don't apply Christianity to anything. And the Christians can't even agree on the meaning of the Bible, or haven't you noticed how many Christian denominations are out there?:laugh2:
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Oh, and all Jewish people agree on the meaning of the Torah? Or haven't you noticed how many Jewish sects are out there?

Same for Muslims and the Koran, and their sects.

But seriously, what is it about Christianity that makes people overly defensive and makes them think that everything is about them?
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Seriously? What is it about Christianity that makes non-Christians overly critical and makes them think they are such experts on other people's beliefs and the Bible?

I don't think everything is about Christians but I have noticed an increase in the critical posts about Christians and the Bible. Maybe it goes with the Christmas season.
 
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Reba said:
Oh, and Jewish people agree on the meaning of the Bible? Or haven't you noticed how many Jewish sects are out there?

Same for Muslims and the Koran, and their sects.


Seriously? What is it about Christianity that makes non-Christians overly critical and makes them think they are such experts on other people's beliefs and the Bible?

I don't think everything is about Christians but I have noticed an increase in the critical posts about Christians and the Bible. Maybe it goes with the Christmas season.
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The Jewish people use the Torah. And there are not nearly as many Jewish sects as there are protestant denominations.:laugh2:

Are you interested in learning about the Nation of Islam? I believe I offered to refer you to some excellent books if you are. And it is Q'uran.
 
jillio said:
The Jewish people use the Torah.
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Yes, I know that. I was trying to make a parallel. I should have used Torah instead of Bible. The point is, they aren't in agreement with interpretation and application of the Torah either.

And there are not nearly as many Jewish sects as there are protestant denominations.:laugh2:
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So? They aren't as many in world population either. They are still more than one, right?


Are you interested in learning about the Nation of Islam? I believe I offered to refer you to some excellent books if you are. And it is Q'uran.
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That's their official website. Do you disagree with it?

There are several accepted spellings.

Quran or Koran?  | American Journalism Review

You brought up Nation of Islam specifically. What exactly is your point about Nation of Islam relative to Muslims?
 
Reba said:
The same way you let Christians decide what is the meaning of Christianity and the Bible, and how it should be applied?

That would be nice.
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What about those who grew up in Christian households, went to church and studied the bible then chose not to be Christian? They don't have a right to make their interpretations of the meaning of like Christians do?

To be very fair and honest - there are some people I admire very much who are devout Christians and they live to serve Jesus and God, by doing good for others and I utterly respect this. And I attended church with them and ate lunch with them and their families afterwards, even though I attended service as a non-christian. I did this out of fundamental respect for who they are and their kindness and generosity that knows no bounds.

And I do this every time I go down South. Yeah, every time. I go down South every 3 or 4 months and stay for a month. I went to church every Sunday because I was invited by kind people who would have large lunches right after church and I really enjoyed those lunches. No idea what the pastors were saying so I would read the Bible and it IS a very interesting book from a historical point of view and I do enjoy reading and learning from it.

It's when one uses the Bible to justify a belief that hurts others that makes me snarky.

And Reba, in the spirit of this holiday, I do want to let you know that I did feel bad about some of my posts directed to you for as far as I can tell, you're a rather nice and very decent woman and it was unfair that sometimes you were somewhat of a scapegoat because of other people professing to be Christian who made unchristian remarks or endorsed unchristian attitudes and activities.

So, I will try hard from this point onwards to make sure that I stick to the debate at hand and not succumb to making posts that could be perceived as a personal attack.

I wish you a good holiday.
 
Reba said:
Yes, I know that. I was trying to make a parallel. I should have used Torah instead of Bible. The point is, they aren't in agreement with interpretation and application of the Torah either.


So? They aren't as many in world population either. They are still more than one, right?



That's their official website. Do you disagree with it?

There are several accepted spellings.

Quran or Koran? *|*American Journalism Review

You brought up Nation of Islam specifically. What exactly is your point about Nation of Islam relative to Muslims?
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Well, let's take a look at the numbers. There are 14.6 million Jewish people worldwide (5 million in the U.S.) as identified by the Jewish Year Calendar. There are 3 movements in the religion (sects to you Christians): Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox.

islamicpopulation.com states there are 2.1 billion Muslims worldwide, with an identified 7 schools of belief with 17 sects divided among them.

There are an estimated 2 billion Christians worldwide and we have, all under Christianity:

Catholocism, Protestant, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, Restorationism, Unitarian Uiversalism, and Nestorianism. Since I mentioned Prostestant denominations specifically, there are 670 million Protestants, and they are divided between 5000+ denominations.

So, I don't know. You tell me where the most disagreement on schools of belief lies.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
If you know of another definition which does not associate Zionism with a Jewish State in Palestine, I'd love to hear it.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it's not different than any other group of people wanting their own country, but I don't see how you can separate it from Zionism as they are the same thing as far as I can tell.

Oh, and you might want to call all these sources and tell them that they are wrong.
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There were Zionists who supported having the new Jewish land in Madagascar. That said, generally nowadays most zionists would agree it should be where formerly Palestine is.

Zion comes from"Tzion" which is another name for Jerusalem...so go figure.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
OK, I'd like to know the definition because this is how I understand it:

From Wikipedia:
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland. (for those that don't know that would be Israel)

From the Jewish Virtual Library:
Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel

From the free dictionary:
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

From the Zionism Month Web:
Zionism as ideology - Zionist ideology holds that the Jews are a people or nation like any other, and should gather together in a single homeland.

From Websters Dictionary:
an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel

If you know of another definition which does not associate Zionism with a Jewish State in Palestine, I'd love to hear it.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it's not different than any other group of people wanting their own country, but I don't see how you can separate it from Zionism as they are the same thing as far as I can tell.

Oh, and you might want to call all these sources and tell them that they are wrong.
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the source is correct but it is you who understand it wrong.

Jewish ADers are trying to explain it to you and you are trying to correct them. why are you being stubborn?
 
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