House Democratic official: 'We've got the votes' on health care

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Here is a fact. Tens of thousands of doctors and hospitals already refuse to treat Medicare patients. The reimbursement rate does not even cover expenses. State hospitals are the only ones that have to treat Medicare patients. Private practitioners have always been free to choose whether to treat Medicare patients.

here is another fact - if Obamacare takes effect before election day physicians' fees will be slashed 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients will be cut by $1.3 billion.

Do the math ;)

btw, this bill passed unanimously in the Rules Committee of the Georgia House of Representatives in my State:

HR1086, the FREEDOM OF CHOICE IN HEALTH CARE ACT

It has already been filed or prefiled in 33 states—Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Most notably, Arizona's HCR 2014, a revised version of the ALEC model, will be put on the ballot in 2010.

My state representatives are voting on this today.

I will be exempt under state law to follow federal law. I just dare you to enforce it.
 
here is another fact - if Obamacare takes effect before election day physicians' fees will be slashed 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients will be cut by $1.3 billion.

Do the math ;)

btw, this bill passed unanimously in the Rules Committee of the Georgia House of Representatives in my State:

HR1086, the FREEDOM OF CHOICE IN HEALTH CARE ACT

It has already been filed or prefiled in 33 states—Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Most notably, Arizona's HCR 2014, a revised version of the ALEC model, will be put on the ballot in 2010.

My state representatives are voting on this today.

I will be exempt under state law to follow federal law. I just dare you to enforce it.

Notice Texas isn't listed. We are suing but on different grounds
 
here is another fact - if Obamacare takes effect before election day physicians' fees will be slashed 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients will be cut by $1.3 billion.

Do the math ;)

btw, this bill passed unanimously in the Rules Committee of the Georgia House of Representatives in my State:

HR1086, the FREEDOM OF CHOICE IN HEALTH CARE ACT

It has already been filed or prefiled in 33 states—Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Most notably, Arizona's HCR 2014, a revised version of the ALEC model, will be put on the ballot in 2010.

My state representatives are voting on this today.

I will be exempt under state law to follow federal law. I just dare you to enforce it.

And those hospitals that are currently seeing Medicare patients will have to continue to do so. The decrease in hospital benefits and physican's fees will be more than off set by the fact that there will be no more catastrophic care for the uninsured. Hospitals and doctors will no longer be forced to write off thousands upon thousands in expenses resulting from indigent care.

I have no idea why you are daring me to enforce it. It isn't up to me. But if you choose to take on the federal government, have at it. Your choice. But you might want to keep in mind that federal law always supercedes state law.
 
And those hospitals that are currently seeing Medicare patients will have to continue to do so. The decrease in hospital benefits and physican's fees will be more than off set by the fact that there will be no more catastrophic care for the uninsured. Hospitals and doctors will no longer be forced to write off thousands upon thousands in expenses resulting from indigent care.

I have no idea why you are daring me to enforce it. It isn't up to me. But if you choose to take on the federal government, have at it. Your choice. But you might want to keep in mind that federal law always supercedes state law.

You apparently don't understand secession.
 
Is There Anything to the Claim that Texas Can Secede?

Texas cannot secede from the United States. Rick Perry is wrong. Ron Paul is wrong. All of the teabaggers (hilarious by the way) are wrong. First and foremost, the United States and the Confederate States fought a little war in the 1860s. While the cause of rupture was the protection of slavery, a point of contention from a political standpoint was can you secede simply because you don't like the government duly elected. When Robert E. Lee surrendered on April 9, 1865, that question from a practical standpoint was answered. Anti-slavery, pro-free wage labor, pro-capitalist, pro-Union policy prevailed.

Nonetheless, it took a Supreme Court decision four years later, Texas v White, to settle this from a legal standpoint. In that case, dealing with whether bonds had been transferred illegally by the government of the Confederate States, in an attempt to stay clear of federal involvement, one of the defendants (John Chiles) claimed that the Supreme Court did not have jurisdiction, because Texas was no longer a state but essentially a conquered province. Salmon Chase, the chief justice of the United States Supreme Court wrote the majority opinion (one that disagreed with Chiles) and said in part:

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to "be perpetual." And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained "to form a more perfect Union." It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?

Chase continued that by incorporating itself into the United States, Texas could not claim that they had formed "a compact," but rather they were part of that indissoluble body. In short, there is no such thing as "a compact" and secession was (and is always) counter to the laws of the United States. This standard was upheld in 1905's so called insular cases - essentially states that were brought in via treaty, conquest, or agreement, were subject to the same law - once they are duly incorporated, secession is off the table. Period.

The supporters of Texas secession, most significantly Perry, have pointed to Texas State Constitution of 1845 as a rationale. At a "teabag" protest in front of the Alamo on April 16, Perry said, "When we came into the Union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that." His supporters hollered and screamed their approval. The problem is, they are all wrong. Brutally wrong. There is nothing in the 1845 Constitution that says Texas may leave if dissatisfied. But let's give the chowderheads the benefit of the doubt and assume that on the basis of the preamble* you could (sort of) see where they might have gotten this misguided notion. It would be all well and good if Texas were actually governed under the provisions of the 1845 Constitution. The problem is we're not. After that little war in the 1860s I referred to earlier, Texas had to write a new constitution in 1876, which is the guiding document. And, here's the surprise - it too says nothing about the right to secede. One would think that the governor of Texas would know under which document he governs. But maybe that is expecting too much.

Aside from the governor not knowing his own state law, two other points argue against this notion of the 1845 Constitution allowing secession. The doctrine of acquisitive prescription (cited in the so-called insular cases) runs counter to Perry's claims, as Texas transferred its sovereignty to the United States. Similarly the principle of estoppel would also run counter to the idea of secession. Texas desired statehood from the moment it seceded in 1836 (this time from Mexico), supported and encouraged by Sam Houston. While many Texans point with pride to the nine-year republic period, they conveniently forget that in 1837, the Texas minister plenipotentiary, at the direction of the Texas legislature made application to the United States for annexation. The US rejected this application, but made it clear to the minister, Memicun Hunt, that it was solely because Texas technically remained at war with Mexico, and that once this were resolved, the path to statehood was open. Texas once again went down this road in 1838, as former President John Quincy Adams filibustered the annexation and killed the prospect of Texas statehood. Only then did Texas resign itself to being a republic for the time being (for reference see "The Speech of John Quincy Adams of Massachusetts, upon the Right of People, Men, and Women, to Petition on the Freedom of Speech and Debate in the House of Representatives of the United States; on the Resolutions of Seven State Legislatures, and the Petitions of More than One Hundred Thousand Petitioners, Relating to the Annexation of Texas to this Union"). At issue here is the following: Texas desired statehood, moved to accomplish statehood, and ultimately attained statehood. Texans can't claim now in 2009 (just as they couldn't in 1845, or in 1861, or at any other point) that they did not wish to be a state under the U.S. Constitution, or the U.S.'s "rules" more generally.

Finally, the principles of these proponents of secession have already unraveled. Never mind that all of this recent talk of secession began as a protest against federal interference in the form of economic stimulus dollars. The Texas governor and legislature all stood unified, saying we will not accept federal interference, promising that they would hate to discuss it, but secession was certainly on the table. Apparently their principles vanished. On April 17 (2 days later!) the Texas House unanimously passed a $178.4 billion budget that contained a $10 billion shortfall offset by -- wait for it -- the federal stimulus package. Speaker Joe Straus said of the apparent contradiction, “I’ve been critical of the stimulus approach from Washington, but I have to say that it is helping us balance our budget” (Houston Chronicle, “Texas House Unanimously Okays $178.4 Billion Budget Plan,” 18 April 2009).

So can we please get a grip? I understand that the Republicans are upset that President Obama is “forcing” them to accept a stimulus package with which they disagree. Whether those of us on the left like it or not, the job of the opposition party is to oppose. And there should be no problem with opposing. Political conservatives lost, and that’s all there is to it, just like the "liberals" lost in 2000 and 2004. But get over it -- create an agenda. Focus on policy. Fix your own house. Oppose all you want. But stop with the secession talk. It is over -- it's counter to the law and the people proposing secession have already sold their principles to balance the budget.

*"We, the people of the republic of Texas, acknowledging with gratitude the grace and beneficence of God, in permitting us to make a choice of our form of government, do, in accordance with the provisions of the joint resolution for annexing Texas to the United States, approved March first, one thousand eight hundred and forty-five, ordain and establish this constitution."


Is There Anything to the Claim that Texas Can Secede?
 
never say never :)
 
Perhaps you should read the article above.

Paragraph 3:

The supporters of Texas secession, most significantly Perry, have pointed to Texas State Constitution of 1845 as a rationale. At a "teabag" protest in front of the Alamo on April 16, Perry said, "When we came into the Union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that." His supporters hollered and screamed their approval. The problem is, they are all wrong. Brutally wrong. There is nothing in the 1845 Constitution that says Texas may leave if dissatisfied. But let's give the chowderheads the benefit of the doubt and assume that on the basis of the preamble* you could (sort of) see where they might have gotten this misguided notion. It would be all well and good if Texas were actually governed under the provisions of the 1845 Constitution. The problem is we're not. After that little war in the 1860s I referred to earlier, Texas had to write a new constitution in 1876, which is the guiding document. And, here's the surprise - it too says nothing about the right to secede. One would think that the governor of Texas would know under which document he governs. But maybe that is expecting too much.
 
Perhaps you should read the article above.

I did and its trash. Written as legal opinion from a Democrat.

"They can't secede because we (federal govt) says so ...its illegal!"

They can still secede. It would just be ... illegal (actually that is exactly what secession is - refusing to acknowledge federal law).
 
Anyone can secede......

Perry's words however were taken out of context. There was misinformation here years ago about whether or not we retained that right....that argument has faded away. However there is another question about whether or not or annexation was legal.....Judging by available records that may in fact be valid.
 
No, Texas cannot secede; no, Texas can’t split itself
Rick Perry put his foot into something during one of the Astro-turf “tea parties” on April 15. Someone asked him about whether Texas should secede from the United States, as a protest against high taxes, or something.

The answer to the question is “No, secession is not legal. Did you sleep through all of your U.S. history courses? Remember the Civil War?”

Alas, Perry didn’t say that.

Instead, Perry said it’s not in the offing this week, but ‘Washington had better watch out.’

He qualified his statement by saying the U.S. is a “great union,” but he said Texans are thinking about seceding, and he trotted out a hoary old Texas tale that Texas had reserved that right in the treaty that ceded Texas lands to the U.S. in the switch from being an independent republic after winning independence from Mexico, to statehood in the U.S.

So, rational people want to know: Does Perry know what he’s talking about?

No, he doesn’t. Bud Kennedy, columnist for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram (still one of America’s great newspapers despite the efforts of its corporate owners to whittle it down), noted the error and checked with Gov. Perry’s history instructors at Texas A&M and his old high school, both of which said that Perry didn’t get the tale from them. (Score one for Texas history teachers; rethink the idea about letting people run for state office without having to pass the high school exit history exam.)

A&M professor Walter L. Buenger is a fifth-generation Texan and author of a textbook on Texas’ last secession attempt. (The federal occupation lasted eight years after the Civil War.)

“It was a mistake then, and it’s an even bigger mistake now,” Buenger said by phone from College Station, where he has taught almost since Perry was an Aggie yell leader.

“And you can put this in the paper: To even bring it up shows a profound lack of patriotism,” Buenger said.

The 1845 joint merger agreement with Congress didn’t give Texas an option clause. The idea of leaving “was settled long ago,” he said.

“This is simple rabble-rousing and political posturing,” he said. “That’s all it is.  . . .  Our governor is now identifying himself with the far-right lunatic fringe.”

Three false beliefs about Texas history keep bubbling up, and need to be debunked every time. The first is that Texas had a right to secede; the second is that Texas can divide itself into five states; and the third is that the Texas flag gets special rights over all other state flags in the nation.

Under Abraham Lincoln’s view the Union is almost sacred, and once a state joins it, the union expands to welcome that state, but never can the state get out. Lincoln’s view prevailed in the Civil War, and in re-admittance of the 11 Confederate states after the war.

The second idea also died with Texas’s readmission. The original enabling act (not treaty) said Texas could be divided, but under the Constitution’s powers delegated to Congress on statehood, the admission of Texas probably vitiated that clause. In any case, the readmission legislation left it out. Texas will remain the Lone Star State, and not become a Five Star Federation. (We dealt with this issue in an earlier post you probably should click over to see.)


Texas’s flag also gets no special treatment. I cannot count the number of times I’ve heard Texans explain to Boy Scouts that the Texas flag — and only the Texas flag — may fly at the same level as the U.S. flag on adjacent flag poles. Under the flag code, any flag may fly at the same level; the requirement is that the U.S. flag be on its own right.

Gov. Perry is behind Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison in polling of a head-to-head contest between the two to see who will be the Republican nominee for governor in 2010 — Hutchison is gunning to unseat Perry. He was trying to throw some red meat to far-right conservative partisans who, he hopes, will stick by him in that primary election.

Alas, he came off throwing out half-baked ideas instead. It’s going to be a long, nasty election campaign.

_____________

No, Texas cannot secede; no, Texas can’t split itself Millard Fillmore’s Bathtub
 
Perhaps you should read the article above.

Paragraph 3:

The supporters of Texas secession, most significantly Perry, have pointed to Texas State Constitution of 1845 as a rationale. At a "teabag" protest in front of the Alamo on April 16, Perry said, "When we came into the Union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that." His supporters hollered and screamed their approval. The problem is, they are all wrong. Brutally wrong. There is nothing in the 1845 Constitution that says Texas may leave if dissatisfied. But let's give the chowderheads the benefit of the doubt and assume that on the basis of the preamble* you could (sort of) see where they might have gotten this misguided notion. It would be all well and good if Texas were actually governed under the provisions of the 1845 Constitution. The problem is we're not. After that little war in the 1860s I referred to earlier, Texas had to write a new constitution in 1876, which is the guiding document. And, here's the surprise - it too says nothing about the right to secede. One would think that the governor of Texas would know under which document he governs. But maybe that is expecting too much.

"Mr. Lust is a PhD Candidate in history at the University of Houston." nothing more. nothing less. Article 1, Section 1 & 2 in Texas Constitution...

Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.

Sec. 2. INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT. All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

yep Texas definitely can secede under certain circumstance. So can any state (I hope).
 
is there any CC videos out there when Perry made the speech about secession?
 
the paradox of secession
Do you live in a western society, and do you want to be treated as a crank? Then suggest establishing a new state with a new political system. And preferably, suggest it should be on an artificial island, and write the constitution yourself. On the other hand, if you suggest establishing a new nation state, for an existing but oppressed ethnic group, you will not be treated as a crank. You might be called a traitor, or even executed for treason. But if you survive that phase, you might end your life as president of the new state - with airports, streets, and mountains named after you. And they might even let you write the Constitution.
This is the paradox of secession which deserves attention from political theory. Looking at history, national secessionist movements are relatively successful. Numerically, most of them failed - but the ones that succeeded now run most of this planet. Considering the magnitude of their demands, the vehemence of opposition, and the bloodshed they usually engender, they seem a successful type of political movement. Yet in the same historical perspective, non-national (non-ethnic) secessionist movements are a total flop.

Now, if anyone can secede at any time, that means the end of the state, the government, on the usual definitions. And not just of tyrannies and gulags, but also of 'nice' democratic governments. The explanation might be simply the fear of bloodshed and chaos - anarchy in the most negative sense. This does not explain why national secession has been relatively successful: it is possible to take an ethical position that "all secession is wrong", but evidently very few people do. Distinctions are made, and conditions are set, but some secessions are accepted. So the 'ethics of secession' here means both the claims made about secession, and the question of whether these claims are right (or even consistent). Both are relevant for consideration of the ethical issues.


democracy contra secession
Democracy relies on a prohibition of secession. A democratic regime assumes a 'demos' - a unit of political decision-making which is constant between decisions. If every dissident minority secedes after every opposed decision, then there is no democratic regime. (There would be no political regime at all - at least not for standard political theory).
So democrats have concluded, like President Lincoln in the 1860's, that secession must be suppressed. Since modern democracies are nation states, secession is now treated as an issue of national unity, and national identity: Lincoln was one of the last politicians who had to address secession as a classic political issue.


It presents to the whole family of man the question whether a constitutional republic or democracy -- a Government of the people, by the same people -- can or cannot maintain its territorial integrity against its own domestic foes. It presents the question whether discontented individuals, too few in numbers to control administration, according to organic law, in any case, can always, upon the pretenses made in this case, or on any other pretenses, or arbitrarily without any pretense, break up their Government and thus practically put an end to free government upon the earth. It forces us to ask: "Is there, in all republics, this inherent and fatal weakness?" "Must a government, of necessity, be too strong for the liberties of its own people, or too weak to maintain its own existence?


The ethics of secession
 
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