AZ Congresswoman...12 others, shot

[sara1981]

Shooting suspect's nihilism rose with isolation
Shooting suspect's nihilism rose with isolation - Yahoo! News

Giffords' campaign chairman: 'We just have to wait and see'
Giffords' campaign chairman: 'We just have to wait and see' - CNN.com

Giffords shooting: Suspect Jared Loughner charged
BBC News - Giffords shooting: Suspect Jared Loughner charged

Gunman linked to white extremists: Loner charged after shooting top politician in the head and killing six
Gunman linked to white extremists: Loner charged after shooting top politician in the head and killing six | Mail Online

Gabrielle Giffords shooting: shot congresswoman 'able to communicate'
Gabrielle Giffords shooting: shot congresswoman 'able to communicate' - Telegraph

Arizona Shooting: Man Charged With Murders
US Shooting In Tucson, Arizona: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Following Simple Commands | World News | Sky News

 

[authentic]

More people use guns as their power. Sad to see things ended up like that.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

I think they are like a lot of parents. They are in denial that their child has serious issues that need to be dealt with. I've heard stories of parents that knew the warning flags were there that their child needs help for a mental disorder or an addiction but the parents were in denial about it as they felt their child 'wasn't that bad' or they were from an affluent or well-respected family and they felt ashamed of it. My mom is like this towards my brother's past drug addiction. Thankfully my brother has been sober for 4 years now.

Yeah , you're right! I watched something on TV about kids being bullies and one woman was in denial about her daughter being a bully , in fact the mother was proud of her daughter being a bully! I wonder if we'll hear form the parents at all. Nothing been said on the news about them. I am so sad about this whole thing. It is really heartbreaking about the 9 years old girl
being killed. To think she was born on the worst day in our country and to dies such a tragic death! My heasrt goes out to her family!

 

[Dixie]

Yeah , you're right! I watched something on TV about kids being bullies and one woman was in denial about her daughter being a bully , in fact the mother was proud of her daughter being a bully! I wonder if we'll hear form the parents at all. Nothing been said on the news about them. I am so sad about this whole thing. It is really heartbreaking about the 9 years old girl
being killed. To think she was born on the worst day in our country and to dies such a tragic death! My heasrt goes out to her family!

My dad was born on 9/11 and I think nothing about it. The two events are separate in my head. Why should one's birthday be considered tragic?

 

[Banjo]

My dad was born on 9/11 and I think nothing about it. The two events are separate in my head. Why should one's birthday be considered tragic?

The girl was born on September 11, 2001 from what I know. I think that's why they are politicizing it.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

My dad was born on 9/11 and I think nothing about it. The two events are separate in my head. Why should one's birthday be considered tragic?

You mean your dad is only 9 years old! I did not say the girl birthday was tragic, I said she was born on a day the tragic for our country! She was one of 50 babies that where in a book about babies of hope. I find it so sad this girl dies a tragic death .

 

[Jiro]

From what I heard on the news the guy had no mental health records .I also heard if the guy lived in my state he never would had been able to get a gun! Az need to change the way people can buy guns! There is not wait period in AZ.

assessing one's mental health as part of eligibility to own a gun is unconstitutional and just plain damn illegal - plus greatly flawed. NJ's law to require gun owner to obtain a firearm purchase ID is unconstitutional too. Such gun registry system is illegal - a first warning sign prior to fascism.

Can't wait for Supreme Court to strike it down as unconstitutional. NJ's day is numbered.

I can never understand this mental health background check. As Jillio said in other thread - one's mental health situation can change at anytime.

First of all - there will always be psycho wherever you go. No law can protect you from getting brutally murdered by psycho. How are you supposed to protect yourself from a psychopathic killer if the law doesn't prevent a psycho from having a weapon illegally?

Please enable a law-abiding citizen to protect oneself by any means against any psychopathic killer.

 

[Jiro]

In Arkansas if you have been diagnosed with a mental disorder and have been institutionalized then you are not allowed to buy a gun of any sort. I'm not sure how this works with the HIPAA laws.

Under HIPAA law - the hospital still cannot report to police about one's unstable mental health unless one expressively wanted to cause harm to oneself and/or to others.

When applying for gun permit, you have to sign a medical consent form to allow LEO to run a mental background check on you. Without consent, it is illegal for hospital to release any medical document on you to anyone else. That would be a serious breach of HIPAA law.

IMO - it is still unconstitutional and illegal on federal level to decide on citizen's eligibility to own a gun based on mental health. In fact - I believe ALL American citizens except convicts should be allowed with unfettered access to own a gun - ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. Sure there are some people who should NOT own a gun because they're not right in the head but so what? Look at drivers. Bad drivers kill more people than bad shooters. Hell... more politicians killed people by car than gun :roll:

 

[TXgolfer]

assessing one's mental health as part of eligibility to own a gun is unconstitutional and just plain damn illegal - plus greatly flawed. NJ's law to require gun owner to obtain a firearm purchase ID is unconstitutional too. Such gun registry system is illegal - a first warning sign prior to fascism.

Can't wait for Supreme Court to strike it down as unconstitutional. NJ's day is numbered.

I can never understand this mental health background check. As Jillio said in other thread - one's mental health situation can change at anytime.

First of all - there will always be psycho wherever you go. No law can protect you from getting brutally murdered by psycho. How are you supposed to protect yourself from a psychopathic killer if the law doesn't prevent a psycho from having a weapon illegally?

Please enable a law-abiding citizen to protect oneself by any means against any psychopathic killer.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

The girl was born on September 11, 2001 from what I know. I think that's why they are politicizing it.

You're right she was born on 9 /11/2001 ,she was one of 50 babie in a book called Faces of Hopes.

Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11 - Google Books

This is why I think it so tragic that she was born on 9 11 and was face of hope and we lose in her in such a senseless horribe crime . We lost hope one of our baby of hope! And something is so wrong about this , how did people allow this to happen!

 

[Jiro]

Congressional leaders promise members security review after shooting

I'm sorry but this article made me :sure:

WASHINGTON (CNN) - House Democrats and Republicans participated in a rare bipartisan conference call Sunday to discuss the condition of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords as well as security concerns for members of Congress.

Republican and Democratic leaders, the chief of the United States Capitol Police, a doctor from the Office of the Attending Physician of Congress, and the Chief of Staff to Rep. Gabrielle Giffords briefed about 800 lawmakers, their spouses and top aides.

"I've been in Congress 22 years and I have never been on a conference call with Democratic and Republican leaders," Rep. Eliot Engel, D-New York, told CNN. He said he was struck by how genuinely bipartisan and impressive all the congressional leaders were who spoke - from Speaker John Boehner to Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

um... why does it take a massacre to get these 2 bickering parties to simply talk to each other? to work with each other? :roll:

do we need another massacre to get them to talk to each other to work on healthcare? :roll:

Smith said only so much can be done. "We are public officials, we can't go out to every public meeting with six or seven armed guards around us," he told CNN.

so enable us law-abiding citizens to carry guns anywhere, anytime. we citizens will do our damnest to protect our civil servants. To you politicians - we are not your enemy... only domestic dissents are. we can help you if you let us.

We law-abiding citizens, not police officers, ended this massacre by tackling this psychopathic killer without guns... at the cost of 6 lives including poor little 9-years old girl. I, without doubt, believe that 9-years old girl would have lived if gun-free zone law is abolished. Where were police officers when the shooting happened???

Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, told CNN he has always has had a concealed weapon license and has often carried a weapon, which is legal in his state, but he said he "may do it more regularly now" in light of the attack on Giffords.

ah!!! Chaffetz is the only one here who makes sense!! Why depend on police as your Amendment 2? What he should do next is to abolish federal law prohibiting firearms in political gathering, school ground, government buildings, and any gun-free zones.

Look back at all previous massacres and you will see that most of horrendous incidents have occurred at gun-free zones.

I apologize for politicizing on this horrendous event but why must we continue to let this happen again and again and again? I can't help it but think how much more lives can be saved if we law-abiding citizens are allowed to stop this psycho.

 

[Dixie]

You mean your dad is only 9 years old! I did not say the girl birthday was tragic, I said she was born on a day the tragic for our country! She was one of 50 babies that where in a book about babies of hope. I find it so sad this girl dies a tragic death .

No, his birthday is on 9/11. I would as a parent keep the two events separate so my child would not grow up constantly attached to a tragic event. The victims and heroes of 9/11 are still remembered and my child's birthday would be celebrated.

It is the same with my dad. We remember the victims and heroes of 9/11 and we celebrate his birthday. Two completely separate events.

 

[deafskeptic]

The guy had no mental health record , did you see the woman that was his class mate on TV? She said she was really worried the guy would do something like this ! It is a damn shame the cops did not pick up on that too!

See post 66. I read about that woman and her concerns about her classmate going off the deep end were quite valid. But now I wonder why no one called in the shrinks or anything like that.

 

[Reba]

From what I heard on the news the guy had no mental health records .I also heard if the guy lived in my state he never would had been able to get a gun! Az need to change the way people can buy guns! There is not wait period in AZ.

If he had no record, then how could they stop him?

How would he be stopped in your state if there was no record of mental health problems?

 

[Dixie]

Under HIPAA law - the hospital still cannot report to police about one's unstable mental health unless one expressively wanted to cause harm to oneself and/or to others.

When applying for gun permit, you have to sign a medical consent form to allow LEO to run a mental background check on you. Without consent, it is illegal for hospital to release any medical document on you to anyone else. That would be a serious breach of HIPAA law.

IMO - it is still unconstitutional and illegal on federal level to decide on citizen's eligibility to own a gun based on mental health. In fact - I believe ALL American citizens except convicts should be allowed with unfettered access to own a gun - ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. Sure there are some people who should NOT own a gun because they're not right in the head but so what? Look at drivers. Bad drivers kill more people than bad shooters. Hell... more politicians killed people by car than gun :roll:

People who are not right in the head cause massacres like these. I am for protecting your privacy in regards to your medical history but at the same time we have believe that past actions are an indication of future actions.

Perhaps you can sign the consent form to do a mental background check but when it comes back it is only flagged for no sale but does not give specific reason. This way the dealer does not know if you were flagged due to felony conviction or for medical reasons. When you are flagged for no sale you receive a letter in the mail that states why you were flagged for no sale. This way one's privacy is protected and firearms are also kept out of hands of felons.

Just a thought, not an actual solution though. I believe in the right to bear arms but we have to consider the safety of the majority.

And yes you are correct more people die each year from auto accidents than by gunfire in the United States. But you also don't hear about people intentionally using their car as weapon as often as you hear about firearms being used as a weapon (probably because it is a weapon). When was the last time you heard about a deranged man driving his car through a crowd of people gathered to hear a politician speak with the intent to kill?

 

[whatdidyousay!]

If he had no record, then how could they stop him?

How would he be stopped in your state if there was no record of mental health problems?

I heard someone say from my state say this I can't recall who the guy was.
My state you have to get a form from the police station to fill out and there waiting period while a background check it done on you. I know some people buy guns illegally and the guy could had try to do that if he fail to get a gun the legal way!

 

[Jiro]

People who are not right in the head cause massacres like these. I am for protecting your privacy in regards to your medical history but at the same time we have believe that past actions are an indication of future actions.

Perhaps you can sign the consent form to do a mental background check but when it comes back it is only flagged for no sale but does not give specific reason. This way the dealer does not know if you were flagged due to felony conviction or for medical reasons. When you are flagged for no sale you receive a letter in the mail that states why you were flagged for no sale. This way one's privacy is protected and firearms are also kept out of hands of felons.

Just a thought, not an actual solution though. I believe in the right to bear arms but we have to consider the safety of the majority.

this whole mental background check is still flawed to a great degree. No amount of regulation or system check or anything whatsoever can do any better. "Mental Health" is highly subjective. If you have no problem eating Bambi for burger, should I, as a modern Yankee, considered you as lowly-educated hilly-billy redneck unsuitable for carrying gun in public simply because I feel that you could be a gun-trigger maniac during road rage?

The only thing it makes sense is to abolish gun-free zones. a deranged person is intelligent enough to understand the fact that anybody among the political crowd can stop him before he massacres more people.

And yes you are correct more people die each year from auto accidents than by gunfire in the United States. But you also don't hear about people intentionally using their car as weapon as often as you hear about firearms being used as a weapon (probably because it is a weapon). When was the last time you heard about a deranged man driving his car through a crowd of people gathered to hear a politician speak with the intent to kill?

well - you don't really hear it often about a deranged man plowing his car thru crowd at political gathering because typically, a deranged person has a very specific agenda - to assassinate a specific political figure. He will not accomplish anything by plowing a car thru crowd.

But the last time a car plowed thru political gathering by accident was back in 2006. A car driven by an elderly man plowed thru in Connecticut where Senator Lieberman was.

Video could uncover clues in Conn. crash - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com

 

[Jiro]

it's too easy to get into gun debate and to say that it should be regulated more or less simply because people were killed by a gun. Let us look back to step one to see how it transpired to this tragic event.

Shooting rampage suspect scheduled to make first court appearance - CNN.com

Laughner "needed psychological help," and McGahee said he was not surprised to hear his former student was the suspect in Saturday's bloodbath.

"This guy was mentally disturbed. He was very isolated," he said.

so the teacher was not surprised about this and he knew beforehand that this guy was a very disturbed individual and he feared that Laughner could bring gun to school...

Months before Saturday's shooting rampage, one of Loughner's former instructors said he saw Loughner as a threat and kicked him out of class.

Loughner was "physically removed" from the Pima Community College algebra course in June -- less than a month after it began -- instructor Ben McGahee told CNN.

McGahee said Loughner sometimes shook, blurted things out in class, and appeared to be under the influence of drugs at times, McGahee said.

"I was scared of what he could do," McGahee said. "I wasn't scared of him physically, but I was scared of him bringing a weapon to class."

The 9mm pistol used in Saturday's shootings was purchased at a gun store in November, FBI Director Robert Mueller told reporters Sunday. And a law enforcement source said the suspect tried to buy ammunition at a Walmart store, but was turned down because of his behavior. Another Walmart store later sold him the ammunition, the source said.

When he tried to enlist in the Army in 2008, the service rejected him for reasons it says it can't disclose due to privacy laws. But an administration official told CNN on Sunday that Loughner had failed a drug test.

In postings on the social media sites YouTube and MySpace, Loughner railed against government "mind control," being surrounded by people he considered illiterate and the illegitimacy of the U.S. government. In class, McGahee said Loughner accused him of violating his free-speech rights: "And of course free speech is limited in the classroom."

One such outburst was "the straw that broke the camel's back," and McGahee -- who had already raised concerns about Laughner with administrators -- had him removed.

Laughner "needed psychological help," and McGahee said he was not surprised to hear his former student was the suspect in Saturday's bloodbath.

"This guy was mentally disturbed. He was very isolated," he said.

In a statement issued Saturday night, Pima Community College said Loughner was suspended after a series of run-ins with campus police between February and September, capped by the discovery of a YouTube video in which he accused the college of operating unconstitutionally. Loughner quit school after the suspension, the college said -- and it warned him that to return, he had to present a doctor's note stating that his presence would not be "a danger to himself or others."

McGahee said the school responded to complaints about Loughner, but, "they didn't do it early enough."

"I think they did the best they can do, but as far as the time frame goes it could have been shortened," he said.

sounds familiar? clues - Seung-Hui Cho. Stephen Kazmierczak.

All above has a history of mental illness and all above were in college where they were aware of their mental status. However - the college is bounded by FERPA Act (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act). Without student's consent, the college is not allowed to divulge information about student's educational background and/or behavior.

Due to 9/11, the Patriot Acts was created. It is considered the most serious and dangerous act which is in direct conflict with the Constitution. Anyone on American soil on the charge of terrorism or suspicion of terrorism can be arrested without warrant and interrogated without lawyer and detained indefinitely at undisclosed location of their choosing. In other word - no one will ever know what happened to you.

So back on the subject - how far should we go to erode more of our privacy rights and Constitutional rights for the sake of public safety despite of the fact that such incident is rare? Should we immediately arrest and lock up people at mental ward if they exhibited disturbing behaviors?

 

[Sosie]

It's awful!

I am so concerned about AZ Congresswoman Giffords's swelling and bleeding and of course, the infection of her brain. I will pray for her recovery but in a long run. I will continue to pray that her recovery goes well.

 

[Jiro]

It's awful!

I am so concerned about AZ Congresswoman Giffords's swelling and bleeding and of course, the infection of her brain. I will pray for her recovery but in a long run. I will continue to pray that her recovery goes well.

it was said that she is able to communicate but yea - brain swelling and clotting remain an issue. It can happen at anytime.

hope she gets out of it.