You ever get people who tell you not to use sign language?

[ismi]

Are you limited by your disability, or are you limited by the lack of accommodation to your disability?

The expectations of society are the primary limiting factor for any disabled person; for some, impairments are also a limiting factor (though they are almost always entangled with the fact that society is not entirely accepting of people with disabilities).

My post at 5:51 on 2/12 is the relevant bit here, though - while deaf (and Deaf) people do need to assert that they are full human beings like everyone else, it's not right to do so by pushing other people down, by perpetuating the stigmas surrounding their group.

 

[dreama]

I totally agree with Aleser and ISMI.

ALL disabled people face barriers due to discrimination. Some more so then others.

There is nothing wrong with being Deaf. There is nothing wrong with any other disability either. It seems that some people seem to want to raise themselves by putting down people with other disabilities such as blindness and I wish they wouldn't.

 

[Grummer]

The expectations of society are the primary limiting factor for any disabled person; for some, impairments are also a limiting factor (though they are almost always entangled with the fact that society is not entirely accepting of people with disabilities).

My post at 5:51 on 2/12 is the relevant bit here, though - while deaf (and Deaf) people do need to assert that they are full human beings like everyone else, it's not right to do so by pushing other people down, by perpetuating the stigmas surrounding their group.

The wordings, "People with disabilities" I dont buy it , since HAVING a disability imply it *problems we have* only belongs to us, in other words, its not society's fault but our physical or mental make up's fault.

It is a slick veiled method of using word-doctoring to deny that it is the society whose has own up to some (or majority of) responsibilies in perpentuating the very problem - Disability!

I prefer Disabled people, it is more honest and it is clearer by all means because this is exactly what is happening to us, we are disabled by society! I'm sure Aleser would agree with that.

What exactly do you mean by deaf (especially Deaf) people perpentuating the stigmas. (I do know what perpentuate means, it is 'to carry on')

Could you please to elaborate?

 

[Aleser]

we are disabled by society! I'm sure Aleser would agree with that.

What exactly do you mean by deaf (especially Deaf) people perpentuating the stigmas. (I do know what perpentuate means, it is 'to carry on')

I agree that society can creat conditions that further disable us, but I also feel that we should not -reject- the title 'disabled' but rather work to show the world that being disabled is perfectly respectable trait.

In regards to deaf people and the stigma surrounding other disabilities, I see this all the bloody time, as a deafblind person. As a group, we are quite inclined to believe that we (Deaf people, not deafblind specifically) have the "best" disability and that others are inferior or less functioning. Particularly, those who are blind, psychologically disabled, or those who use a wheelchair are often preceived by deaf people as lesser beings.

I'm not saying we all do it, but I am saying that as a population, we are more likely to do it... when in fact we should never be doing it at all. If disabled people will not fight for the respect and equal treatment of other disabled people... how can we ever expect to have any?

 

[jasin]

You're completely missing the point.

A person who has complete paraplegia cannot walk. However, if they use a wheelchair, they can get any and everywhere they want to, just like people who can walk.

A person who is deaf cannot hear. However, given hearing aids and cochlear implants (or speechreading skills, or ASL), they can communicate with the world anywhere and everywhere, just like people who can hear.

It's no different.

Wrong, absolutely wrong!!! I can communicate!!!!!!!!!!! I can communicate better then even most hearing people.

I do not need hearing to communicate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Byrdie714]

My way is easy. We don't need to sit around and debate this thread.

Just tell people to "F*** OFF!" if they don't want you to use sign language.

 

[jillio]

The expectations of society are the primary limiting factor for any disabled person; for some, impairments are also a limiting factor (though they are almost always entangled with the fact that society is not entirely accepting of people with disabilities).

My post at 5:51 on 2/12 is the relevant bit here, though - while deaf (and Deaf) people do need to assert that they are full human beings like everyone else, it's not right to do so by pushing other people down, by perpetuating the stigmas surrounding their group.

Agreed. And that is exactly the point I was making. Functional limitations are far less disabling that are the societal ones. For any disability.

 

[jillio]

You're completely missing the point.

A person who has complete paraplegia cannot walk. However, if they use a wheelchair, they can get any and everywhere they want to, just like people who can walk.

A person who is deaf cannot hear. However, given hearing aids and cochlear implants (or speechreading skills, or ASL), they can communicate with the world anywhere and everywhere, just like people who can hear.

It's no different.

Exactly. So it is the disability created more by societal limitations than by functional limitations.

 

[Aleser]

Wrong, absolutely wrong!!! I can communicate!!!!!!!!!!! I can communicate better then even most hearing people.

I do not need hearing to communicate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

... which, would be why I included speechreading and ASL as examples of methods of communication. Glad to see that you can read before going off on a rant.

 

[shel90]

Maybe I am just unaware Shel, but the only people I have ever seen discourage anyone from the use of sign language have been so called professionals. I have watched other people watch Deaf people sign in public, and I have never seen anything but fascination. Certainly I have never seen anyone try to discourage a Deaf person from signing. Maybe others have experienced this but maybe things have changed as well. I know in this area the emergency medical personel are taking sign language classes. Maybe when the older profesionals who have perpeptuated this attitude die off, only the new, aware and more informed will be left to deal with the two communities as a whole.

Yes, it is those so-called professionals. The very same oralists that told my mom if I was exposed to sign language, I would never be normal. How terrible is that?

However, what I meant about the general society..they dont understand deafness but by disabling us, they demand us not to use the drive-thrus, refuse to provide us interpreters at places of employments or doctor appts, or treating us like 2nd class citizens who have no intelligence. That's what I mean. I know that there are some people who are very understanding and try to meet our deaf needs but the majority of the general population seem afraid of us.

 

[shel90]

I have seen many instances where people close to the deaf person discourages their use of sign.
For example, my high school ASL teacher used to tutor a deaf boy, whose mother was hearing (He was about 12 years old). He had a cochlear implant, which did nothing because not only was he profoundly deaf, but he received it long after the mother entered him in oralism programs. She thought that he was simply struggling with school and needed a tutor, when in reality, he could not understand what was being said because he had no comprehension of speech, and his mother refused to let him learn ASL. If my teacher merely spoke to him, he couldn't understand her. But if she also used sign (she experimented to see what he knew), he picked it up and understood. He was a whiz in math, but had a harder time with the other subjects because they all required reading. Since his mother was against the use of ASL (and my teacher could not go against what the mother wanted), he became extremely frustrated with the situation and no longer wanted to learn. He also could not fit into neither the Deaf nor hearing worlds. His mother's discouragement of the use of ASL made it much more difficult for him in and outside of school.

As for the older "professionals" having this attitude, it comes in all ages. I have seen it in younger people as well.
And unfortunately, as already stated before by others, that attitude is what is disabling.

Yes, and I see that in my field of teaching too often. Way too often and it is a waste of those children's minds.

 

[shel90]

My way is easy. We don't need to sit around and debate this thread.

Just tell people to "F*** OFF!" if they don't want you to use sign language.

 

[Secretblend]

Yes, it is those so-called professionals. The very same oralists that told my mom if I was exposed to sign language, I would never be normal. How terrible is that?

However, what I meant about the general society..they dont understand deafness but by disabling us, they demand us not to use the drive-thrus, refuse to provide us interpreters at places of employments or doctor appts, or treating us like 2nd class citizens who have no intelligence. That's what I mean. I know that there are some people who are very understanding and try to meet our deaf needs but the majority of the general population seem afraid of us.

maybe we ought to say BOO more often.

 

[Grummer]

Good to see alot of people here agrees that disabilty is a significant factor as a barrier to assert for d/Deaf people's rights. Now it must be asked what can we do to confront the stubborness of the Deaf politics' parochial nature which is overwhelmingly informed (and controlled) by the Cultural model of deafness. (dont get me wrong sign langauge is very important but it can't advance without broadening the interest in the matter of oppression.

 

[jasin]

... which, would be why I included speechreading and ASL as examples of methods of communication. Glad to see that you can read before going off on a rant.

:stupid:

Which most all deaf people can do without hearing, so you are still wrong.

We can communicate just fine and we dont need our hearing to communicate its only your prespective that we do.

 

[Cheri]

Same here.

My father was visiting one time and he turned off the close captioning on my television set as it "bothered him". He set the remote between us and I picked it up and hit the "MUTE" button.

"What did you do that FOR? I'm missing out what's being said!"

I looked at him, smiled and said, "My point."

The captions came back on......

Good one!!

 

[Aleser]

:stupid:

Which most all deaf people can do without hearing, so you are still wrong.

We can communicate just fine and we dont need our hearing to communicate its only your prespective that we do.

Okay, now you're just acting stupid. I said that through hearing aids OR cochlear implants OR speechreading OR ASL, a deaf person can communicate.

Also, I'm a signing deafblind person. But thanks for deciding -my perspective- for -me-.

 

[jasin]

Okay, now you're just acting stupid. I said that through hearing aids OR cochlear implants OR speechreading OR ASL, a deaf person can communicate.

Also, I'm a signing deafblind person. But thanks for deciding -my perspective- for -me-.

Alser, it must be very hard for you being both deaf and blind. I wish you the best in life. I really do. I apologize if I offended you.

You need to understand though, that I am deaf too and I come from my perspective, my own life. I have never needed hearing to communicate I can communicate effectivly with both hearing and deaf people.

 

[jasin]

My way is easy. We don't need to sit around and debate this thread.

Just tell people to "F*** OFF!" if they don't want you to use sign language.

Oh, heck yeah!! I am with you on this one. If people wont respect our right to sign then f*** them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shel90]

Alser, it must be very hard for you being both deaf and blind. I wish you the best in life. I really do. I apologize if I offended you.

You need to understand though, that I am deaf too and I come from my perspective, my own life. I have never needed hearing to communicate I can communicate effectivly with both hearing and deaf people.

Right, it depends on the person. For me, I need my hearing aids to communicate with hearing people but my deaf brother doesnt need them when communicating with hearing people. In fact, he doesnt own one.