what has standing up for gays cost you?

Secretblend said:
You won't understand why cause you don't believe in God and the Bible.
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I have this sort of conversation all the time here:

Why aren't you Muslim?
-Why should I be?
Because Islam is the true religion.
-Why do you believe that?
Because it says so in the Koran.
-And why do you believe that's true?
Because it came directly from God, so it's right!
-And where do you learn that?
From the Koran!
-So why do you believe that that is true?
Because it came directly from God!

You get the point. A conversation with many Christians could be pretty much the same. The whole viewpoint is based on a matter of belief.

The real issue is, the person has never stepped outside the "box" of his belief, has never learned to, and is usually very frightened of doing so. Because it would mean thinking for himself rather than just accepting others' thoughts and being accepted by them.

So you blithely lump us with murderers etc. and also say you have gay friends. What I hear is "I'm concerned about you because I [choose to] believe you are like a murderer, and would like you to be the same as me. Otherwise [I choose to believe] you will go to hell."

Here's a question for you:
How many murderer friends do you have? How many thieves? How many gossips? How many unfriendly people?
Do your "gay friends" really deserve to be classified along with them?

Of course you have the right to believe what you choose (and consciously or not, you DO choose to believe it and always have the option to examine your beliefs).

But you should also be aware that telling a gay person they are not natural and should not be gay, is not much different from telling a Deaf person that they are not natural because normal people hear, and that they should just listen harder.

And I don't know how you can consider that compatible with any concept of "respect" and "friendship."
 
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kipourgos said:
I have this sort of conversation all the time here:

Why aren't you Muslim?
-Why should I be?
Because Islam is the true religion.
-Why do you believe that?
Because it says so in the Koran.
-And why do you believe that's true?
Because it came directly from God, so it's right!
-And where do you learn that?
From the Koran!
-So why do you believe that that is true?
Because it came directly from God!

You get the point. A conversation with many Christians could be pretty much the same. The whole viewpoint is based on a matter of belief.

The real issue is, the person has never stepped outside the "box" of his belief, has never learned to, and is usually very frightened of doing so. Because it would mean thinking for himself rather than just accepting others' thoughts and being accepted by them.

So you blithely lump us with murderers etc. and also say you have gay friends. What I hear is "I'm concerned about you because I [choose to] believe you are like a murderer, and would like you to be the same as me. Otherwise [I choose to believe] you will go to hell."

Here's a question for you:
How many murderer friends do you have? How many thieves? How many gossips? How many unfriendly people?
Do your "gay friends" really deserve to be classified along with them?

Of course you have the right to believe what you choose (and consciously or not, you DO choose to believe it and always have the option to examine your beliefs).

But you should also be aware that telling a gay person they are not natural and should not be gay, is not much different from telling a Deaf person that they are not natural because normal people hear, and that they should just listen harder.

And I don't know how you can consider that compatible with any concept of "respect" and "friendship."
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It is totally different. Being deaf is not a choice. I was born deaf. Most Deaf people didn't get to choose to be deaf or not. However, you and I and everybody do choose who you want to be with and what kind of relationship you want to be in.
 
Secretblend said:
It is totally different. Being deaf is not a choice. I was born deaf. Most Deaf people didn't get to choose to be deaf or not. However, you and I and everybody do choose who you want to be with and what kind of relationship you want to be in.
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Neither is being gay since science has shown that their are smaller parts of the brain that determines one's sexual orientation.

Afterall, why would a person choose to be gay to face people like you that condemns them?
 
Secretblend said:
It is totally different. Being deaf is not a choice. I was born deaf. Most Deaf people didn't get to choose to be deaf or not. However, you and I and everybody do choose who you want to be with and what kind of relationship you want to be in.
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Deaf people can choose to live as hearing people without signing or being part of a deaf community if they want to. It can be a lonely, trying existence trying to be someone you are not. Maybe it will work, but for how long? Just recently I read a post here by someone who was from Kenya talking about how he was denied his right to drive merely because he is deaf. How funny people will deny you your rights just because they dont know squat about what works for you.

It is a choice to have the kind of relationship that is true to who you are. You can also have a relationship that isn't true to who you are, as well.

Lies have a way of making things worse in the long run. No matter how much you may want to make justifications to insist on other people you do not know personally to live a lie, it is still a lie that will blow up in everyone's face eventually, period.

One thing for damn sure, I know homosexuality is real, valid and natural as heterosexuality is. I will always believe that until the day I die, no matter what happens.
 
Liza said:
Deaf people can choose to live as hearing people without signing or being part of a deaf community if they want to. It can be a lonely, trying existence trying to be someone you are not. Maybe it will work, but for how long? Just recently I read a post here by someone who was from Kenya talking about how he was denied his right to drive merely because he is deaf. How funny people will deny you your rights just because they dont know squat about what works for you.

It is a choice to have the kind of relationship that is true to who you are. You can also have a relationship that isn't true to who you are, as well.

Lies have a way of making things worse in the long run. No matter how much you may want to make justifications to insist on other people you do not know personally to live a lie, it is still a lie that will blow up in everyone's face eventually, period.

One thing for damn sure, I know homosexuality is real, valid and natural as heterosexuality is. I will always believe that until the day I die, no matter what happens.
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You may believe that. However, I believe opposite and I will till the day I die.
 
Byrdie714 said:
Neither is being gay since science has shown that their are smaller parts of the brain that determines one's sexual orientation.

Afterall, why would a person choose to be gay to face people like you that condemns them?
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Science is not always correct.
 
Byrdie714 said:
Neither is religion. :)

Religion is just that...a belief.
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That might be true however there is one thing we do know. WE WILL DIE! I rather trust in religion than science cause science will end.. The afterlife does not.
 
Secretblend said:
That might be true however there is one thing we do know. WE WILL DIE! I rather trust in religion than science cause science will end.. The afterlife does not.
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IF afterlife exists. No one has come back from it to prove otherwise.

Now....let's get back to the topic before the topic gets booted to the Religious thread. :)
 
Byrdie714 said:
IF afterlife exists. No one has come back from it to prove otherwise.

Now....let's get back to the topic before the topic gets booted to the Religious thread. :)
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One did come back.

Agreed on getting back to topic. :cool2:
 
Secretblend said:
It is totally different. Being deaf is not a choice. I was born deaf. Most Deaf people didn't get to choose to be deaf or not. However, you and I and everybody do choose who you want to be with and what kind of relationship you want to be in.
Click to expand...

Oh give me a f____ing break. That is the weakest, most tired and dishonest agrument that homophobes come up with. Nobody who looks honestly at the issue could ever believe it. Do you think a straight kid looks at the kid getting the crap beat out of him for being gay and says "oh, he looks like he's having lots of fun, I think I'll go be like him?" That a kid who is attracted to the opposite sex just says "I think I'll forsake women and do it with guys?"

Are you completely unaware of the self-hatred that so many gay people go through? If they hate being gay (for whatever the reason), if their own gayness terrifies them, sometimes to the extent that they enter into marriages to try and hide it, suppress it, or make it go away, then what possible justification can you give for the claim that they "choose" it? The argument is too absurd for words.

You can choose "believe" that gay people choose to be gay as long as you want. I.e. you can choose to ignore the evidence from all sides in favor of what supports your blind faith. But it simply doesn't make it true. All the evidence is to the contrary, and has been for years. The only reason you make that statement is that unless you try and convince yourself of that, the responsiblity for your prejudice lands right in your own lap. And then you can no longer talk about Christian love while refusing to confront the fear and hate you harbor for people who have done you no harm. I know you like the palm of my hand, because I was you for years.

I was gay before I even knew what the word meant. I realized that I was attracted to the same sex, only much later did I realize what it meant. What did I choose, besides being honest with myself? I tried to "change" for 13 years to please "believers," including myself. It didn't work. It might have pleased you and your correligionists if I had married and put on the facade; you might have said "see, he was cured." But it would have been a lie. And people like you would scrambling to believe it, because nobody loves a lie like a person desperate to hide from the truth.
 
Secretblend said:
That might be true however there is one thing we do know. WE WILL DIE! I rather trust in religion than science cause science will end.. The afterlife does not.
__________________
Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
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Methinks you might do well to read, reread, and consider your signature line.
 
Hi. I don't normally come in this room but here I am! Anyway, I just wanted to say that being gay is how someone is born. Nobody choses to be gay, they just are. I didn't need science to tell me that and I don't need religion to tell me otherwise. In my heart of hearts, I already know that being gay is not a choice - - it's just how someone is born. Kind of like being born black, white, indian, chinese, japanese.... No one chose their nationality.

God made people, so God made gays. That's logic for ya, eh? And Jesus loves everyone, I don't need a bible to understand that. I don't and won't ever see that God does not love Gays. I am not your typical christian.
 
hmm

I sure have.

I grew up in the bible belt and thought being gay was a choice, but by jr. because of gay friends and just learning about it in general (dropping religion was also a big facter) I realized that your born gay.

I started standing up, and hanging out with gay friends right in public. I still have to cuss out some of my friends when they call someone a fag.


I've been accused of being gay myself SoooOooo many times. Hell at a party once, one gay guy kept saying I was hitting on him and trying to get a piece.

Now of course he was pretty drunk, and only kidding around with me cause were friends, but you know it didn't make me look to good.

But yeah I was accused of being gay a lot in high school and even after (although i've only been out a few months)

I like to think its cause I defended gays and hung out with them. :lol:


but the sad :roll: truth is, it probably cause my hair came down to my shoulders and I spoke proper English in Tennessee. Oh the eyeliner and the painted fingernails probably didn't help either. :laugh2:
 
Let's please leave God out of this, It's between God and them. He's the judge not us. ;)

I don't like to see any threats, verbal abuse or violence abuse on anyone that's including homosexuals. If anyone doesn't support their lifestyle choices that's within their rights, some are deeply offended by homosexuals that makes them uncomfortable, which I can really understand that. But, there is no needed for the violence on homosexuals. ;)
 
Secretblend said:
I agree with Joanie. It is not natural.
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Perhaps it is not natural for you, but for the homosexual, it is very natural biologically, socially, and psychologically. Abnormal must be viewed in context.
 
Lex Luthor said:
I sure have.

I grew up in the bible belt and thought being gay was a choice, but by jr. because of gay friends and just learning about it in general (dropping religion was also a big facter) I realized that your born gay.

I started standing up, and hanging out with gay friends right in public. I still have to cuss out some of my friends when they call someone a fag.


I've been accused of being gay myself SoooOooo many times. Hell at a party once, one gay guy kept saying I was hitting on him and trying to get a piece.

Now of course he was pretty drunk, and only kidding around with me cause were friends, but you know it didn't make me look to good.

But yeah I was accused of being gay a lot in high school and even after (although i've only been out a few months)

I like to think its cause I defended gays and hung out with them. :lol:


but the sad :roll: truth is, it probably cause my hair came down to my shoulders and I spoke proper English in Tennessee. Oh the eyeliner and the painted fingernails probably didn't help either. :laugh2:
Click to expand...

Exactly. Homosexuality is not a choice, any more that heterosexuality is a choice. People need to get a grip! There are cultures that celebrate the homosexual, and consider them to be closer to God, as they possess equal proportions of the masculine and feminine characteristics.
 
kipourgos said:
Oh give me a f____ing break. That is the weakest, most tired and dishonest agrument that homophobes come up with. Nobody who looks honestly at the issue could ever believe it. Do you think a straight kid looks at the kid getting the crap beat out of him for being gay and says "oh, he looks like he's having lots of fun, I think I'll go be like him?" That a kid who is attracted to the opposite sex just says "I think I'll forsake women and do it with guys?"

Are you completely unaware of the self-hatred that so many gay people go through? If they hate being gay (for whatever the reason), if their own gayness terrifies them, sometimes to the extent that they enter into marriages to try and hide it, suppress it, or make it go away, then what possible justification can you give for the claim that they "choose" it? The argument is too absurd for words.

You can choose "believe" that gay people choose to be gay as long as you want. I.e. you can choose to ignore the evidence from all sides in favor of what supports your blind faith. But it simply doesn't make it true. All the evidence is to the contrary, and has been for years. The only reason you make that statement is that unless you try and convince yourself of that, the responsiblity for your prejudice lands right in your own lap. And then you can no longer talk about Christian love while refusing to confront the fear and hate you harbor for people who have done you no harm. I know you like the palm of my hand, because I was you for years.

I was gay before I even knew what the word meant. I realized that I was attracted to the same sex, only much later did I realize what it meant. What did I choose, besides being honest with myself? I tried to "change" for 13 years to please "believers," including myself. It didn't work. It might have pleased you and your correligionists if I had married and put on the facade; you might have said "see, he was cured." But it would have been a lie. And people like you would scrambling to believe it, because nobody loves a lie like a person desperate to hide from the truth.
Click to expand...

Very well said... i agree with you... Even tho i am very straight but i do have friends who are gay or lesbians.. they are wonderful friends... I respect them..
 
Well to me, being straight (I was talking when I was used to be, not the straight people) I feel there's more consquences than when I finally be open that I was gay because pretending being straight make me feel so down and dishonestly with myself, almost everyone can tell that I was gay and they just make fun of me, and I tend to feel weird when I was around straight guys too often or try out straight guy's stuff because I don't really feel like those are for me, nor having any interest into those, if I act like myself which people can tell I was gay, they will feel weird about me and avoid from me, plus I do felt jealousy of those people who are open gay because I don't know how to be honestly with myself and didn't get the chance like those people that are open gay, till finally I admit to everyone that I was gay, I felt so better since because everyone leave me alone now about my sexual orientation and more more GLBT people are my friends now instead of those who I envy.

Just be honest, you get what you deserve. Dishonest, you get nothing, but intense.
 
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