voters will blame GOP if default

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Banjo said:
It's astonishing how little accountability there is in the congress these days. At the moment, they are way beyond the point of no return. There is no way to undo the damages they have done upon the country by merely suggesting that the government raise the taxes, cut the spending.

It's not that simple. They have to make much, much more difficult decisions that will negatively affect the country in a lot of ways. However, in the end, it's for the greater good. People need to stop thinking about now and start thinking about the future. They need to be more considerate of the future generations because they are going to be paying off the debt.
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netrox said:
Of course it's "manufactured" in a sense that it's an imaginary limit. Other countries (except Denmark but it has very high limit so it doesn't have to worry and don't involve policymaking) don't impose debt ceiling limit.

The debt is 95% of our GDP but again, that doesn't mean much. Norway and Switzerland are considered richest countries in Europe. They have stable economies. They use a mixture of socialism and free markets. Guess what their debt of GDP is? 400% and 229%, respectively. Netherlands? 471%.

List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I'm not talking about the issue of the debt ceiling itself; I'm talking about the fact that the republicans--particularly the Teatard party--hijacked a routine formality (where was the outrage from republicans when Reagan raised the debt ceiling 14 times?) and used it to almost destroy our country, causing huge amounts of unnecessary stress to struggling families, business owners, and anyone else who would be adversely affected by inflated interest rates (everyone except the wealthy, of course).

The worst part about it is that the Tea Party didn't even deny their intent. They blatantly stated that their intentions were to destroy America if they didn't get what they wanted (almost in as many words as that).

This sort of anti-Americanism is absolutely unacceptable. Ideological terrorists like Jim DeMint and Joe Walsh should be impeached, tried for treason, and sent to prison.
 
I certainly don't see any of the conservatives behaving like terrorists.
 
Reba said:
I certainly don't see any of the conservatives behaving like terrorists.
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No? Threatening to destroy our economy as leverage for getting what they want, even when it's absolutely preposterous that they, controlling only one part of the legislature (minority faction, which is often what terrorists are), think their every demand should be met?

Let's just set aside the fact that nobody died. What do you call their actions then?
 
Reba said:
Very insightful, well-thought out, and deep.

Not. :roll:
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Sound like something Joe Biden would say! LOL!!
I am very concerned about this new committee that was formed to see where to make more cuts...
 
TheWriteAlex said:
I hadn't seen/heard about that, but it comes as no surprise. This is how many people feel, and that is exactly how they behaved. They used terrorist tactics. Plain and simple. Absolutely abhorrent.

Care to comment on how you feel about their actions?
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Agreed 110%.
 
Reba said:
I certainly don't see any of the conservatives behaving like terrorists.
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You don't consider the Tea Party to be conservative? Or you don't recognize their terrorist like activities?
 
More hypothetical situations? Dude, you really need to get out of the world of "What if".:lol:
 
darkdog said:
And now, introducing America's newest right-wing terrorist... Paul Krugman!

If I Were In The House - NYTimes.com
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jillio said:
You don't consider the Tea Party to be conservative? Or you don't recognize their terrorist like activities?
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No, they didn't use terrorist-like activities. They used no violence or threat of violence. They didn't use any methods to frighten anyone.

If anything, the Democrats used the fear of no Social Security checks, and the threat of losing our good credit rating to promote their agenda.
 
Reba said:
No, they didn't use terrorist-like activities. They used no violence or threat of violence. They didn't use any methods to frighten anyone.

If anything, the Democrats used the fear of no Social Security checks, and the threat of losing our good credit rating to promote their agenda.
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C'mon, Reba. You are absolutely in denial if this is what you believe. The Tea Party didn't use fear? Really? Threatening to destroy our economy? You are begging the question there.

What do you mean the democrats were using the threat of losing our good credit rating? THAT WAS THE REPUBLICANS.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
C'mon, Reba. You are absolutely in denial if this is what you believe. The Tea Party didn't use fear? Really? Threatening to destroy our economy? You are begging the question there.

What do you mean the democrats were using the threat of losing our good credit rating? THAT WAS THE REPUBLICANS.
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They said that if they didn't raise the debt ceiling that we would default on payments and lose our good credit rating.

Not a conservative or Republican source:

Debt ceiling: What happens if it isn't raised? - Jul. 13, 2011
 
Reba said:
They said that if they didn't raise the debt ceiling that we would default on payments and lose our good credit rating.

Not a conservative or Republican source:

Debt ceiling: What happens if it isn't raised? - Jul. 13, 2011
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What exactly in this article did you find false or misleading or even hyperbolic? It's all absolutely true.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue here. Republicans control only one part of a three-part legislature. And the Tea Party is nothing more than a fringe group (and a short-lived one at that. Make no mistake. This is the end of their little temper tantrum). That gives them little legitimate bargaining power. So they couldn't get everything they wanted using fair compromises. Even the republican leaders admitted this. Under normal circumstances, concessions would have to be made. That's how our government works. But what did the conservatives do instead? They threatened to run our economy into the ground if their demands weren't met. Compromises be damned. WHAT PART OF THIS ARE YOU NOT GETTING?


Just admit it: This was an abhorrent display on the part of republicans, and especially the Tea Party. It's okay, you know, to admit when your party did something wrong. Defending this really makes you look bad.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
What exactly in this article did you find false or misleading or even hyperbolic? It's all absolutely true.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue here. Republicans control only one part of a three-part legislature. And the Tea Party is nothing more than a fringe group (and a short-lived one at that. Make no mistake. This is the end of their little temper tantrum). That gives them little legitimate bargaining power. So they couldn't get everything they wanted using fair compromises. Even the republican leaders admitted this. Under normal circumstances, concessions would have to be made. That's how our government works. But what did the conservatives do instead? They threatened to run our economy into the ground if their demands weren't met. Compromises be damned. WHAT PART OF THIS ARE YOU NOT GETTING?


Just admit it: This was an abhorrent display on the part of republicans, and especially the Tea Party. It's okay, you know, to admit when your party did something wrong. Defending this really makes you look bad.
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:confused:

I'm not trying to argue anything. You asked me questions and I answered. You aren't trolling, are you? ;)
 
TheWriteAlex said:
What exactly in this article did you find false or misleading or even hyperbolic? It's all absolutely true.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue here. Republicans control only one part of a three-part legislature. And the Tea Party is nothing more than a fringe group (and a short-lived one at that. Make no mistake. This is the end of their little temper tantrum). That gives them little legitimate bargaining power. So they couldn't get everything they wanted using fair compromises. Even the republican leaders admitted this. Under normal circumstances, concessions would have to be made. That's how our government works. But what did the conservatives do instead? They threatened to run our economy into the ground if their demands weren't met. Compromises be damned. WHAT PART OF THIS ARE YOU NOT GETTING?


Just admit it: This was an abhorrent display on the part of republicans, and especially the Tea Party. It's okay, you know, to admit when your party did something wrong. Defending this really makes you look bad.
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Then why did the Democrats in the Senate swat down not one, but two bills from the House? Why is it that half of the Democrats in the House voted nay on the final bill on the evening of August 1? It's almost as if they were willing to risk destroying the economy if they couldn't get what they wanted.
 
Reba said:
No, they didn't use terrorist-like activities. They used no violence or threat of violence. They didn't use any methods to frighten anyone.

If anything, the Democrats used the fear of no Social Security checks, and the threat of losing our good credit rating to promote their agenda.
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OOOOkay.
 
Reba said:
:confused:

I'm not trying to argue anything. You asked me questions and I answered. You aren't trolling, are you? ;)
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You said you didn't see any "terrorist activity" on the part of republicans or conservatives. You are referring to a very literal interpretation of terrorism involving killing and maiming. I am referring to terrorism in a more figurative way, but in both instances, the underlying intent and execution are EXACTLY THE SAME.

I'm not trolling at all. I have never been this more pissed off about politics in this country. Usually I just holler a bit, shrug my shoulders, and move on-- because it's business as usual. I dislike just about all politicians, not just those here in Washington, but everywhere. But what just occurred in the past week was a new low for American politics, and definitely a new low for republicans, just when I thought they couldn't go any lower. What we witnessed was a wholesale hijacking of American values.

Two hundred and fifty years ago, George Washington initiated the legislative body as a system of compromises and working together. There have been many spats and feuds since that time, but I can never recall ever witnessing or reading about a time that one party threatened to sabotage the entire country if they did not get what they wanted. That is worse than being un-American. That is treason.
 
darkdog said:
Then why did the Democrats in the Senate swat down not one, but two bills from the House? Why is it that half of the Democrats in the House voted nay on the final bill on the evening of August 1? It's almost as if they were willing to risk destroying the economy if they couldn't get what they wanted.
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Because those latter bills put forth by the republicans were completely lopsided and unrealistic. The earlier bill Boehner and Obama worked on together was a more bipartisan effort, but the teatards shot that out of the water. Why else? Because democrats had already compromised more than the Tea Party deserved. When you control one part of a three-part legislative system, you don't exactly have huge bargaining power. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Let's not forget who initiated this crisis. Raising the debt ceiling is a formality. It is never challenged or thwarted because doing so has catastrophic implications. Don't even try to spin this around on democrats. That's the dirty little trick going around in the conservative camp now, eh? Create a colossal mess, then try and pass it off as the other guy's fault? First Bush and his 8 year disaster, now this? The American public is on to this. You guys won't stand a chance in the next election if you keep this up.
 
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