truth - what's the matter?
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Oceanbreeze
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Beowulf said:I have always heard that there are three sides to an argument: your side, my side, and the truth.
Right. Basically, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It's all about interpretation, which differs from person to person. People need to realize that, and adjust accordingly.
Good point, Beowulf.
truthmatters
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Oakley_04 said:
Dovete ottenere un lavoro perché avete troppo tempo sulle vostre mani! Prego smetta di denominarlo e lascilo solo. E ti amo, anche!
_\,,/truthmatters said:Dovete ottenere un lavoro perché avete troppo tempo sulle vostre mani! Prego smetta di denominarlo e lascilo solo. E ti amo, anche!
Translate from Italian to English :-
You must obtain a job because you too much have time on your hands! I
pray stops to only call it and lascilo. And I love to you, also!
To use Beowulf's statement as example; I don't believe that you are hearing... I strongly believe that you are deaf! But your side of the truth indicated that you are hearing. The truth of audiology exam confirmed that you are hearing.Oceanbreeze said:Well, I'm hearing, so you know I don't get it!
As I've said before in other threads, I like a good drama. I won't be a hypocrite and say I don't like a good melodrama once in awhile, but when it comes to people getting hurt, I draw the line. Especially, if that person is my friend!
I know I've done my fair share of adding to the chaos. I admit it. I also admit that it was probably wrong. And, I'm sorry. I really am.
I guess what I've realized that in order for change to occur, one must be apart of the solution and not the problem. That's the problem as I see it. We make ourselves apart of the problem when it's really not that important to begin, or it doesn't involve us. I'm veering off the point here a bit, and I know that this intent of this thread was to talk about real life situations. I'm restricting my comments to just my conduct on the messageboard, though. Because, really, folks... To me, this is just a message board. It's NOT real life. I don't take things seriously, and I really wish others didn't either. Especially when it comes to hurting another's feelings. What purpose is there in that? Does it really make you feel good to know you've bruised an ego alittle bit, or out right hurt someone?
I can honestly say I've done it, and it doesn't make me feel all that great.
Anyway, I'd love to discuss a bit about what you said but it will be derail... I guess I can do it in other times or via PM/IM either way. However you made a good point that this is just a message board but the problem is that we, as humans, have the feelings. In some cases that whatever they said can affect our emotions in that or other way and clouds our logical thinking abilities. I had my bad moments around in here, AD too. I must admit that I regretted what I said to some people but that's life. I made some mistakes and I have to take these into account or I will make myself crazy if I didn't.
Beowulf made a good point with his statement.
Oceanbreeze, we are humans and we should be proud of what and who we are
but I must admit that I sometimes feel like I am losing my faith in humanity when certain situations & incidents come up... well, what else I can do but keep the faith in humanity regardless if it is transparent or not?In fact, Truth is not or never will be on our side.
The Heretic
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Indeed.Magatsu said:
There's no good, solid answer for why people gossip, but the best place to start is studying the dynamics of group behavior, and that is found between sociology and psychology, or social psychology.
If we can establish a relatively plausible sketch of human psychology to describe motivations and hopefully explain them in a social setting, then we are halfway to a good answer why people gossip.
I think it has a lot to do with the deep, stark fascination we have for dirty and rather embarrassing secrets. Most of us enjoy the misfortune of others, even though we already know this is not a praiseworthy feeling.
Just curious
C
Cookie Monster
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truthmatters said:Dovete ottenere un lavoro perché avete troppo tempo sulle vostre mani! Prego smetta di denominarlo e lascilo solo. E ti amo, anche!
A gentle reminder to you because you started this thread, I wanted to share a part of your post with you.
truthmatters said:
IMHO, I feel you have participated in raping your own thread as well by going offtopic and posting in a foreign language.
Good point. I think you just answer our question with that last comment: "just curious".The Heretic said:
Maybe, it is just pure curiousity? To satisfy their curiousity to see how it will affect some people when they are creating some hurtful gossips about other people?
Another few possibilities:
1) They are still stuck in their 'High School' stage. I am sure that all of us know how High School and their gossips are... Maybe, at certain point, they are unable to outgrow that 'stage';
2) They have extremely low self-esteem and they couldn't handle it.. so they inflict their 'low self-esteem' attacks on others through gossips/rumors to enable the ability to feel 'good' about themselves;
3) or as you said, it can be something related to psychology... something 'tick' in their minds and they suddenly became so desperate to make the rumors/gossips about others?
Well, you are right that this "gossip/rumor" situation does warrant the long-term studying to find out why they did that to other people.
C
Cookie Monster
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Magatsu said:
Those are very valid possibilites, have you considered that when people are cornered, they do lash out hence the "fight or flight" syndrome. I have seen this in many messageboards when a very vocal or strong-willed member shares his/her opinions/thoughts, members gangs up on him/her and this member is cornered. Their only way of rebutting back is to lash out.
Good point. I can see what you mean because I saw these situations several times at some communities.Cookie Monster said:
Actually, I think "fight or flight" syndrome is not that bad as rumors/gossips/backstabs but that's just my opinion. We can 'see' or take their "fight or flight" comments into account while we often do not 'see' the rumors/gossips/backstabs that they did to us behind our backs. It is more hurtful in that way. Some of them would say, "that's life"... it is bullshit and they know it. Well, again it is just my opinion. Heh
Offtopic for a minute, is that Socrates in your signature picture? If so, tell her a big hello from me
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Cookie Monster
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Magatsu said:Actually, I think "fight or flight" syndrome is not that bad as rumors/gossips/backstabs but that's just my opinion. We can 'see' or take their "fight or flight" comments into account while we often do not 'see' the rumors/gossips/backstabs that they did to us behind our backs. It is more hurtful in that way. Some of them would say, "that's life"... it is bullshit and they know it. Well, again it is just my opinion. Heh
Offtopic for a minute, is that Socrates in your signature picture? If so, tell her a big hello from me
Granted, you are so correct about the gossipmongers/backstabbers because it is painful what they do behind our backs when we lay the trust in their hands. Like you say, it is fine when they do it in front of us because we can control the situation when gossipmongers/backstabbers twist the stories/lies. We are able to put them back in their places and tell our side(s) if we choose to stoop to their levels. Those who state "Que sera sera, C'est la vie, That's life!" I've no respect for them because they are participating in the story-twisting. I'd rather for a person to state the truth to my face than "flower his/her language", as my good friend poetically states to me.
Off-topicing here.. Socrates says a big hello & hugs backatcha!!
Ditto! I completely agree with you. That's what I rather to face, I mean for others to state the truth to my face than 'parrot' behind my back.Cookie Monster said:
Cookie Monster said:Off-topicing here.. Socrates says a big hello & hugs backatcha!!
hugs back to her. Thank for telling her for me!
K
kuifje75
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Ahh, now that the aim of this thread is clarified, I have to add that rumours and backstabbing is not an exclusively deaf activity. It occurs also in the hearing community as far as I can see, and Magastu has made many valid points here. I know of a person who is continuing to spread stories about me, even though I have not spoken to that person for over a year and half. I chose to not let it bother me, and I am always finding it quite ironic that especially Alldeaf members are still asking me til this day about me and this person. I'm staying out of it and if people want to know who I am, they can find out for themselves. What they wont hear from me is me whining about this person. It is a closed chapter and store away eons ago.
I also have observed many people spreading gossips and rumours. I know I have done it a bit by myself with a few select friends, but we always knew that it was rumours and nothing more than that. If I hear someone saying something, I just ignore and meet the person to know him better. Then I can make my own observations about him.
As for CookieMonster's statements, yes it is better to be blunt than to make efforts to find the right words to flower the language. That's like pacifiying a person. Sometimes when a person is pelleted with accusations out of nowhere with no valid meanings, he or she can lash back. I have experienced that in several forums, and have long since then not participated in these forums. Some people cannot just simply respect simple opinions or feelings of other members.
I also have observed many people spreading gossips and rumours. I know I have done it a bit by myself with a few select friends, but we always knew that it was rumours and nothing more than that. If I hear someone saying something, I just ignore and meet the person to know him better. Then I can make my own observations about him.
As for CookieMonster's statements, yes it is better to be blunt than to make efforts to find the right words to flower the language. That's like pacifiying a person. Sometimes when a person is pelleted with accusations out of nowhere with no valid meanings, he or she can lash back. I have experienced that in several forums, and have long since then not participated in these forums. Some people cannot just simply respect simple opinions or feelings of other members.
The Heretic
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Magatsu said:
Actually i hit the "post reply" button while driving on the freeway prematurely.
I forgot to finish the sentence by adding this: "...has anyone seen the movie, Gossip?
There are two sides of gossip, and most of us are focusing far too much on the negative aspect. the positive side is where you are talking to somebody about a mutual friend, maybe making jokes or funny stories about him in an appreciative way. An article in Psychology Today magazine analyzes the 3 components of gossip: influence, networking and social alliance.
Missus_Philos0phyK
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truth and lies does matter.. we may not which to believe the truth or lies. 
C
Cookie Monster
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Nesmuth said:
I beg to differ on that one, Nesmuth.
I abhor the Crab Theory and would prefer the truth directly to my face even if it hurts me. I tell the truth as it is and I will not embellish the truth. To embellish the truth is to stab one person's back and that's quite despesciable in my opinion. It is quite honourable for a person to admit their feelings to the other person because it frees both people from such negativity.
It is advisable not to make such gross generalisations about the Deaf Community. I know I wouldn't want you to be the AD spokesperson. I would want all of AD members to speak for themselves because I thrive on diversity and truth in a whole. One opinion does not speak for a whole just as much as one whole community does not speak for an individual.
Allrighty.... while I do understand the 3 sides to story (my way, your way, and the truth), I think one who is completely honest narrows that down. I don't lie, actually I hate lies, and I believe if Im included in that 3 sides, 'my side' and 'the truth' end up very close to the same thing.
I also understand that 'fight or flight' thing..... an example: when someone knows the truth, but is scared of it, they may run and do anything they can to avoid that truth. They freak themselves out and then lie. It is very much like relationship I was in recently, she was freaked out by her feelings and didn't know how to react, went to someone else for comfort, and when they manipulated her for their own benefit, she lied to cover it. She felt trapped by her feelings, but didn't want to hurt me by telling me truth that commitment scared her, and so it was 'fight or flight' or kinda both... she lashed out at me when I try and work things out (fight) or she just outright lie to me or not tell me anything (flight). Communication broke down because of this.
Personally, I don't lie because when you lie you have to remember what you said. If you tell the truth, it will always be the same so you don't have to remember what you said. You can tell when someone is lieing because they will lash out at you when they feel they've trapped themselves in their lies.
Also, I would much rather be told the truth about anything because that's the only way you can truly know someone, and because things are much easier or less painful to deal with when you know what's going on instead of trying to guess what's actually happenning and worry about the possibilities. Knowing the truth about something is much easier to deal with than believing a lie in falsely placed trust and finding out the truth later.
For the record, don't think that it's just Deaf that have this problem because it is everywhere. I am a hearing person and so far I see no difference between deaf and hearing in anything except that a deaf person cannot hear. Personality traits and actions are same no matter if deaf or hearing.
While I do not like lieing, I also understand that sometimes it is necessary (like dealing with overzealous police {no offense Taylor or any other officers pls}), but I strongly believe that friends or partners should not lie to each other, as it only causes problems and can negate trust in that person.
K, I think I've rambled long enough..... *goes back to hide in the peanut gallery*
I also understand that 'fight or flight' thing..... an example: when someone knows the truth, but is scared of it, they may run and do anything they can to avoid that truth. They freak themselves out and then lie. It is very much like relationship I was in recently, she was freaked out by her feelings and didn't know how to react, went to someone else for comfort, and when they manipulated her for their own benefit, she lied to cover it. She felt trapped by her feelings, but didn't want to hurt me by telling me truth that commitment scared her, and so it was 'fight or flight' or kinda both... she lashed out at me when I try and work things out (fight) or she just outright lie to me or not tell me anything (flight). Communication broke down because of this.
Personally, I don't lie because when you lie you have to remember what you said. If you tell the truth, it will always be the same so you don't have to remember what you said. You can tell when someone is lieing because they will lash out at you when they feel they've trapped themselves in their lies.
Also, I would much rather be told the truth about anything because that's the only way you can truly know someone, and because things are much easier or less painful to deal with when you know what's going on instead of trying to guess what's actually happenning and worry about the possibilities. Knowing the truth about something is much easier to deal with than believing a lie in falsely placed trust and finding out the truth later.
For the record, don't think that it's just Deaf that have this problem because it is everywhere. I am a hearing person and so far I see no difference between deaf and hearing in anything except that a deaf person cannot hear. Personality traits and actions are same no matter if deaf or hearing.
While I do not like lieing, I also understand that sometimes it is necessary (like dealing with overzealous police {no offense Taylor or any other officers pls}), but I strongly believe that friends or partners should not lie to each other, as it only causes problems and can negate trust in that person.
K, I think I've rambled long enough..... *goes back to hide in the peanut gallery*