Totalitarian in Ohio ?

yep!

Tousi said:
Thanks for your honesty. So you got off on a technicality and your'e the one who has to live with the truth. Something tells me, tho, that you couldn't care less. Ok, man; be safe, be sane.
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i must admit that when it comes to riding one of my bikes.. i love to speed. that is not quite true.....i LUST TO SPEED and yes i will out run the cops if i am on bike fast enough..but if i see cop close enough to read my plate,i just pull over.
i can not claim to be a goodie goodie two shoes, not by a long shot, and i almost never carry ID.
but on the flip side... i have only been to jail for beating the hell out of bikers who started fucking with me in the first place. and they NEVER press charges.i am a motorcycle mechanic who knows all the local biker gangs and more than a few in around the country...it seems like there is always asshole in every group...even all deaf.
but i am getting of the point.... the people will tolerate that bull in ohio, and if they do the feds will kick it out .
 
I oppose the bill as well, I don't like Govern Taff and I don't know why the heck I voted for him for? I thought he would listen to us. I felt like we are in control of the govern. What happened to being a citizenship born in the state of Ohio, and not having so many rights? Enough said by me. :pissed:
 
I am amazed at Americans whining about this. When I was living in Europe, it was customary for us to bring our identity papers all the time. It has nothing to do with our freedom, but more for our safety. If we are unconscious, they can locate our identifications and contact the proper person who knows us. Identification cards are required for many things, even bank transactions. It prevents theives and so on.

I fail to see why this can be compared to so-called Gestapo methods.

The Napoleonic Code in France is what the French police follows, which allows them a lot of rights to do whatever they please. It can be an occassional pain in the @$$. In fact, I think France has more freedom than the Americans. So, this proves that even their police is very strict and exacting, the normal everyday life is quite normal and feels more free than in the US. I will never forget the first time my French friend came to visit the US, and how shocked she was to see so many laws and silly rules in place. She commented on how perhaps it was a state of logic in this country, that we have less common sense and need everything to be spelled out to us by these numerous laws.

I think the education plays an important role in aiding one to develop a good common sense, and unfortunately, in the US, I notice that the educational system is sorely lacking in many areas. We produce high school graduates who cannot comprehend beyond grade 6 or 7 level and lack critical thinking skills. So, the government assumes a bigger role to "baby" the population by passing many frivilous laws and telling them what to do.

I think it would serve us better if we developed our educational system to a much better level, and encourage everyone to use critical thinking skills to see what is best for themselves. For the time being, stronger laws are needed to protect dumb people from hurting themselves.
 
kuifje75,

It has something to do with the state not counties, That's a different story here. If I happened to be at a local restaurant and a cop decide to see my id, Why? I wasn't doing anything wrong? Do you think that's right for a cop to come up to me asking for an id, when I'm minding my own business? And if I don't have an id they arrest me. That's bullcrap! I was born in the United states and born in the state of Ohio, and it's nobody damn business who I am, If I don't have to show my ID, Then I don't have to, I don't need someone ordering me around, when I'm not doing anything wrong, It's like this, they're running those people lives like we are bunch of slaves, We are people for heaven sake, Where's the respect of privacy when we are out in public?
 
why?

why no ID.
for one...the only time someone asks ,is to give me a ticket or to verify a credit card.... i pay cash all the time ...and i missspell my name to cops.
 
We do not use the Napoleonic Code. We use the Constitution.
And I agree that our educational system is a shambles, but hey, that is great for a totalitarian system because with enough "dumbing down" the citizens are easier to control and subjugate.
 
Cheri said:
kuifje75,

It has something to do with the state not counties, That's a different story here. If I happened to be at a local restaurant and a cop decide to see my id, Why? I wasn't doing anything wrong? Do you think that's right for a cop to come up to me asking for an id, when I'm minding my own business? And if I don't have an id they arrest me. That's bullcrap! I was born in the United states and born in the state of Ohio, and it's nobody damn business who I am, If I don't have to show my ID, Then I don't have to, I don't need someone ordering me around, when I'm not doing anything wrong, It's like this, they're running those people lives like we are bunch of slaves, We are people for heaven sake, Where's the respect of privacy when we are out in public?
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I imagine that a cop wants to know about you if you are married or not so he asks for your ID so that he can look up the information on the computer. That makes you feel too valuable and unsecure. I am just giving a brainstorm.

kuifje75 - I understand your comment. In America, many police have usually no respect them because they have hurt many people what we have seen on the TV news. Some police have egoism, and especially testosterone because the word "police" makes them feel powerful. One thing that they keep forgotten is our human rights. My former boss told me that he was a cop for 30 years, and enjoyed beating them. No kidding. My assume that your country and mine have different culture. I think that your country is somewhat friendly - I could be wrong...
 
webexplorer said:
In America, many police have usually no respect them because they have hurt many people what we have seen on the TV news. Some police have egoism, and especially testosterone because the word "police" makes them feel powerful. One thing that they keep forgotten is our human rights..
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That is true because, my hearing sister said the same thing about cops. ;)
 
sablescort said:
If Bob Taft signs this bill, he's going to be totally fucked and get a lot of Ohioans pissed at both him and the Legislature for passing this totally fucked up bill.

I hate the thought of this Gestapo-like tactics being spread to other states from Ohio.

Also some ppl may forget to bring their ID's with them, and in case the cops ask for it, the person who simply left the ID at home is just as totally fucked over as the person who brings ID but refuse to reveal to the police. Ask me 'cause I've oftentimes left my house without my wallet containing my ID's, then having to come back to get it once Im halfway down to my destination.

Bush thinks the Constitution is just nothing but fucking toilet paper to him :madfawk: If Bob Taft ever signs this idiotic piece of paper, his great-grandfather, William Howard Taft, the 27th President of the United States (1909-1913) and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, would be rolling over in his grave!

Pardon the rant, but this is one PISSED-OFF American speaking his mind about this totally fucked-up legislation. I hope this gets TOSSED off the court. George Orwell couldnt sure have dreamed up this shit when he wrote "1984".
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That is so sickening to hear if IT ever happens in KENTUCKY i gaurntee ya that HALF of the state will be jailed
 
Cheri said:
That is true because, my hearing sister said the same thing about cops. ;)
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My bro whos a Cop iN charoltte, NC said that many Many cops misabuse thier postion as COP and his cheif wont allow it bec had problems of it lately in Charolette if found that cop misuse thier authority they will be either supsend or kicked out
 
For your information, I live in the United States of America, in the Beehive State (Utah).

I never really had any problems with cops in the States. I think it is because I know how to conduct myself in the public, and always respect the police if they need something from me. If I started to have an attitude and disrespect the police, I wouldn't be surprised if the so-called cocky police would beat me up. I think too many Americans need a lesson in respect, and how to conduct themselves in the public.

If a policeman pulls me over, I pull over immediately, and explain immediately that I am deaf, and the best way for us to communicate is on notepad, etc... I always have done that in a courteous manner, and was always treated with dignity. If police askes me for my ID, I don't mind it at all. That is what ID cards are essentially made for.

Beowulf, we do have the constitution, but our police is becoming more and more like the Napoleonic Code, aren't they? France also has her constitution of the Fifth Republic, which guarantees fraternity, liberty and equality. France also has her share of cops with no morals. The recent riots in Paris and all over in France is a perfect example of what can escalate from these sorts of cops. But again, we had same thing in LA in 1990s, and around the country in the 1960s or 1970s.

Suppose you are an owner of a store, and there is a situation that arises, which provokes your suspicions of that person who is in your store. If the police cannot come and ask what his story is, then you would continue to feel threatened by this person. Call the police and let him ask the customer about his alibi, and resolve any anxiety that might have been unnecessary for you. With the law in place, the customer can effectively refuse to show his identity, and you will feel as if you cannot establish a feeling of security in your store, making it a place where your customers would not feel safe being in. Do you want that?
 
I feel that some folks are missing the point, This bill is not only requirement for airports, government buildings, Train stations, airports, bus stations, or with any credit card, etc. They are talking about any where in public, Even if you are at restaurant, in public restrooms, at a park, anywhere, The lengthy piece of legislation would let police arrest people in public places who will not give their names, address and birth dates, even if they are not doing anything wrong. There are people out in the world had loses their driver license, temporary ID card or state ID, And 'police' are to asked for their ID, don't have it in hand, They don't care, They arrested you just like that, yeah even if you did not do anything wrong. What a laughing matter.

If this bill passes, It'll make a lot of people in Ohio in the Cleveland area angry. You can bet on it.

Now, I have no problem with a bill that is requirement on certain level of securities such as government buildings, airports, train stations to avoid any suspension terrorist, which requirement of proof of ID by everyone. ;)
 
Reba said:
Can you please list for me the points that you want to compare? That is, YOU show ME which points of the two acts that you think are the same, and then I will respond. Please be specific.
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Ok, Reba. You know the history repeated itself, right ? Ok, now remember the German troops ordered all the Jews to show the ID and all brutual against the Jews ? Well, they will do it the same thing to Americans if, the bill pass. It ( the parellel is similiar as Hilter's in 1940's ) I don't see any difference in between them ( USA & Germany ). The "Enablin' Act" & "The Patriot Act" are different names they want to call for their executive orders, but they both are similiar in history - THAT history will always repeat the same.

I am hopin' that this bill DON'T pass to avoid future bloodshed. This is NOT AmeriKa.
 
kuifje75 said:
For your information, I live in the United States of America, in the Beehive State (Utah).

I never really had any problems with cops in the States. I think it is because I know how to conduct myself in the public, and always respect the police if they need something from me. If I started to have an attitude and disrespect the police, I wouldn't be surprised if the so-called cocky police would beat me up. I think too many Americans need a lesson in respect, and how to conduct themselves in the public.

If a policeman pulls me over, I pull over immediately, and explain immediately that I am deaf, and the best way for us to communicate is on notepad, etc... I always have done that in a courteous manner, and was always treated with dignity. If police askes me for my ID, I don't mind it at all. That is what ID cards are essentially made for.

Beowulf, we do have the constitution, but our police is becoming more and more like the Napoleonic Code, aren't they? France also has her constitution of the Fifth Republic, which guarantees fraternity, liberty and equality. France also has her share of cops with no morals. The recent riots in Paris and all over in France is a perfect example of what can escalate from these sorts of cops. But again, we had same thing in LA in 1990s, and around the country in the 1960s or 1970s.

Suppose you are an owner of a store, and there is a situation that arises, which provokes your suspicions of that person who is in your store. If the police cannot come and ask what his story is, then you would continue to feel threatened by this person. Call the police and let him ask the customer about his alibi, and resolve any anxiety that might have been unnecessary for you. With the law in place, the customer can effectively refuse to show his identity, and you will feel as if you cannot establish a feeling of security in your store, making it a place where your customers would not feel safe being in. Do you want that?
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In that scenario, all that needs be done is to enforce the existing laws.
Sighhhh, we are getting off track a bit here, don't you think?
 
MODS -

Please, move this to On-topic Debates. ADers are debatin' their opinions/POV. Hot topic I guess. :lol:

*Smooches* Thanks -
 
I'm sorry so many people have had bad experiences with the police. I'm 54 years old, and I have never had a bad experience with any police, nor have any of my family members or friends.
 
CyberRed said:
Ok, Reba. You know the history repeated itself, right? Ok, now remember the German troops ordered all the Jews to show the ID and all brutual against the Jews? Well, they will do it the same thing to Americans if, the bill pass.
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I know about the Nazis and Jews. Can you please show me where in the national Patriot Act that it would allow similar persecution to anyone?


It (the parellel is similiar as Hilter's in 1940's ) I don't see any difference in between them (USA & Germany).
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Again I ask, can you please show me the exact parts of the two acts to which you are referring? Please show me the parallel legislation.


The "Enablin' Act" & "The Patriot Act" are different names they want to call for their executive orders, but they both are similiar in history - THAT history will always repeat the same.
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Please show me some proof of comparable orders.

So far, I have read opinions, not facts. I am not saying you are wrong. You might be right. But you have not presented any facts to support your opinion. Please show me the proof that convinced you, so I can decide for myself.
 
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