The CI for children issue (My POV)

double post..
 
expand, don't limit options

I agree with those posters who write about the importance of opening doors and windows to more opportunity for communication, including both Faire Jour and Shel90. I think -- in an ideal world -- every deaf child should have opportunities to develop both sign and spoken language.

But it's not always an easy path to do either and there are downsides to both opportunities:

For access to sign, that may mean the family has to physically move to a new city/town, take new jobs, distance themselves from family to obtain access to a signing community. It may mean sending the child away from their community, apart from friends & neighbors, to a private school in order to provide an ASL rich environment on a daily basis; it may incur significant financial costs for the family or a serious drain on the local public school's budget (it costs upwards of $60K a year to send our 3YO to attend preK at a signing school), or require travel to another state for weeks, months at a time to attend camps and other enriching environments. It may mean losing a day or two a week with your child to take classes so ASL can be a part of your home environment. Could require a whole lot of technology (doorbell / phone flashers, new alarms, TTY/videophones).

For access to sound, it may mean lots of medical activity -- audiograms and ABTs and CAT scans and MRIs, possibly surgery, healing, and rehabilitation; an abundance of technology in your daily life (CIs, HAs, FM systems, wires to your TV, DVD players); speech and language therapy. In our case, costs are negligible as everything is covered by insurance, including the rechargeable batteries, but in some cases SLP and private therapy services can be costly.

So yes, you can focus on the downsides of gaining access to sound through CIs or HAs, or of incorporating ASL into your lives but the upsides to providing more communication options are enormous -- a whole lot more access in general (to people, to information, to education, to community, etc.). And in day to day and very personal terms I've seen the benefits: I've watched my daughter chat with great delight on the phone with her grandmother - who, unfortunately, does not know ASL. She spoke to her grandfather as he lay with eyes closed on his deathbed, and he squeezed her little hand in response. I've watched her hold extended conversations with her teacher -- in ASL. I've seen her interact with ease with classmates and the teacher within a crowded classroom -- in both spoken language and ASL, I've heard her listen as her piano teacher sang a brand new tune and then watched my toddler play it note for note without looking at her sheet music. She's a deaf kid who uses ASL and can hear when aided, and despite a first year with no language input whatsoever, because both ASL and spoken English were instituted relatively early, she is developing as both a native speaker and a native signer.

Every single small instance of access she might not have had without either sound or sign outweighs the downsides: the annoyance of charging her batteries, getting a meningitis vaccination, or strapping her in for the 4 hour a day ride to and from school don't even register on the scale. So from my perspective, I can't imagine not giving my child the opportunity to learn and use ASL right now. I can't imagine not given her the chance to learn and use spoken languages right now.
 
Li Li's mom, you are my hero!

It is a huge deal to give your child ASL. We had to pay thosands of dollars to take classes at our community college. We had to search for people who use the language and find ways to incoorperate them into our lives. We had to change everything about our lives. We have to drive miles to see friends instead of playing with our neighborhood kids. We have to find special babysitters, we had to change churches. We had to look for signing videos, figure out movies that don't rely on speech for understanding, just tons of things, every single day. But we did it because we wanted our child to have access to that language.

For spoekn language there are different sacrifices. We went to JTC this summer. That was a huge sacrifice of money and time, but it was worth it. Miss Kat learned a lot, and so did I. We have to go to weekly therapy, and once every 3 months we drive 2 hours to see the audiologist. But it is giving my child access to spoken language. It is giving her the ability to play with her neighbors, talk on the phone, and understand.

I worked my behind off to give my daughter her first language, ASL. And now I am working, again, to give her my first language, English.

She can, and should have both.
 
For the record.... a CI implantee still need all of that deaf technology during the times they are not wearing their CIs.

Anyone that lived in dorms can testify that you need all of these technology in place because most of the things happen while you're sleeping.
 
I agree with FJ. It's worth the expense and inconvenience to give your child ASL and Deaf/deaf culture. I respect FJ's efforts on behalf of her child. Her daughter will benefit from them. What's more important then your child's needs?
 
She's a deaf kid who uses ASL and can hear when aided, and despite a first year with no language input whatsoever, because both ASL and spoken English were instituted relatively early, she is developing as both a native speaker and a native signer.

Every single small instance of access she might not have had without either sound or sign outweighs the downsides: the annoyance of charging her batteries, getting a meningitis vaccination, or strapping her in for the 4 hour a day ride to and from school don't even register on the scale. So from my perspective, I can't imagine not giving my child the opportunity to learn and use ASL right now. I can't imagine not given her the chance to learn and use spoken languages right now.
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Exactly!!!!!!! Does your kid go to the Learning Center for Deaf Children?
Faire jour......there's no downside to hearing but the fact of the matter is that CIs and hearing aids do not give 100% access to hearing/ the hearing world. . They give a lot of access to hearing/hearing world........but even those people who rave and are superstars with their HA/CI say that they don't 100% feel a part of the hearing world.
 
Buffalo said:
Downside to hearing again via CI: expenses of paying for batteries, parts, etc. and possible death resulted from meningititis. There are more and I am tired of pointing that out for you CI-pro guys over and over.
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Replacement parts for a CI could be considered a downside if you don't have insurance, but if you do, most insurances cover CI equipment/replacement parts, while they do NOT cover hearing aid related equipment.

We have BCBS, and anything related to audiology is excluded. EXCEPT if it's for a CI, and then it is covered. If my daughter had a hearing aid instead of a CI, we'd be paying for everything out of pocket. So for us, in regards to expenses, the CI is a benefit...
 
After the implant, The mapping is covered but for everything else, even an processor upgrade, you are more likely have to pay out of your pocket. I am trying to see if my rechargable battery will be covered by my insurance, but I have a feeling it won't.

Anyway, if your child have implant as a baby, don't be afraid to use ASL (especially if you think he will develop language skills like a hearing baby... baby sign never affected hearing babies at all so I don't see the harm of ASL)
 
Lighthouse77 said:
After the implant, The mapping is covered but for everything else, even an processor upgrade, you are more likely have to pay out of your pocket. I am trying to see if my rechargable battery will be covered by my insurance, but I have a feeling it won't.

Anyway, if your child have implant as a baby, don't be afraid to use ASL (especially if you think he will develop language skills like a hearing baby... baby sign never affected hearing babies at all so I don't see the harm of ASL)
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And this is why I went with AB for my daughter. Why would I want to pay thosands of dollars out of pocket for a cosmetic upgrade? The processing stratagies haven't changed, the technology is exactly the same....why do I want them releasing things that are useless, just to get some more money.

In fact, Cochlear users are still using ACE and SPEAK, which were the very first softwares used in the 80's. They have made ZERO upgrades to the speech processing aspects, in all these years, but the N5 sure is pretty!!

That's why I went for AB. It's about technology. (Clearvoice is supposed to be coming out next year. It is still compatable with the Harmomy, so no price upgrade, just better hearing!!!)
 
If the lines of communication between parent and child are open, and the issue is discussed on a continuing basis as the child grows and changes, there will not be a day that they suddenly come to their parents with questions. The parent will have already answered those questions in the process of raising and communicating with their child. Which is another reason that a parent needs to make the effort to learn the language that is accessable to their child, and not the other way around.
 
jillio said:
If the lines of communication between parent and child are open, and the issue is discussed on a continuing basis as the child grows and changes, there will not be a day that they suddenly come to their parents with questions. The parent will have already answered those questions in the process of raising and communicating with their child. Which is another reason that a parent needs to make the effort to learn the language that is accessable to their child, and not the other way around.
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And give their child the tools to access the world.
 
jillio said:
And those "tools" would be?
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Depends on the kid, but above all, I would say literacy.

Every child needs to learn to read and write affectively. Their entire future, both educationally and in adulthood will be shaped by their ability to understand written language.

For other kids that could include a CI and spoken language, or the ability to use an interpreter effectively.

But above all, I think having a fluent language with which you can communicate your thoughts and feeling, and then literacy in the language of the majority. Those are the two biggest things.
 
faire_jour said:
Depends on the kid, but above all, I would say literacy.

Every child needs to learn to read and write affectively. Their entire future, both educationally and in adulthood will be shaped by their ability to understand written language.

For other kids that could include a CI and spoken language, or the ability to use an interpreter effectively.

But above all, I think having a fluent language with which you can communicate your thoughts and feeling, and then literacy in the language of the majority. Those are the two biggest things.
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Rather vague. Sounds like a cut and paste from JTC propoganda.
 
Yes, I can instruct you. Tell us what "tools" you feel deaf children should be given in order to interact with and access their world. Perhaps you could start by giving us an operational definition of "tool", and then explain, per that operational definition, how that is to be applied.
 
jillio said:
Yes, I can instruct you. Tell us what "tools" you feel deaf children should be given in order to interact with and access their world. Perhaps you could start by giving us an operational definition of "tool", and then explain, per that operational definition, how that is to be applied.
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You really love to play games don't you. You think I should define "tools". I'm not playing...
 
faire_jour said:
You really love to play games don't you. You think I should define "tools". I'm not playing...
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You asked for instructions, and I provided them. No games at all. Very up front and straight forward. Guess you didn't really want instructions after all.
 
jillio said:
You asked for instructions, and I provided them. No games at all. Very up front and straight forward. Guess you didn't really want instructions after all.
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No, I didn't. I was very clear that I thought language and literacy were the two most important things for a deaf child. You didn't accept that answer.
 
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