Start with spoken language or ASL?

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IslandGal said:
Well, for your information, a friend of mine who is deaf and comes from a deaf family has PERFECT literacy skills!
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I know of so many myself. So that generalization the other poster made is incorrect.
 
jillio said:
In my case, I didn't. I moved to another geographical area that provided the support services that would provide the most benefit for my son. However, I realise that this is not always a viable option for all parents. So IMO, we need to increase the availablity of services in all areas. However, when you are talking about one deaf child in perhaps a small rural school district, this can be a difficult situation.
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Yes Jillio, but you also are an individual example, a good example , but we couldn't move every family and deaf kid as you mentioned. Also catering high quality services and education to every deaf kid is also difficult , because after a point this goes beyond being about deaf education and reaches a point where we can question the quality of educational system provided overall (to deaf and hearing and all other kind of kids).

So after 500 messages, I would like to ask, what are the practical suggestions coming out from this thread. Putting who is right and wrong a side, is there a conclusion we reach that can make at least some changes in real life (in terms of improving things)?

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I see that some people made comments about Jillo and I saying the same thing or we agree on everything.

Maybe ask yourselves why is that?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact we have both personal and professional experiences in the Field of Deaf Ed/Language acquisition/both fluent in ASL/both see the constant influx of deaf children with poor literacy skills from the "wait and see" approach/both believe in the holistic approach of deaf children? :hmm:

It is not about being in a clique, not about taking sides, not about winning or losing. Jillo said it best...it is about creating a win-win environment for ALL deaf children so no child is put at risk for language deficients.

Funny..I have never met Jillo and it is amazing how much in common we have and how much we have the same views. Yes, that is rare and I admit I am surprised by that. *shrug*
 
Hermes said:
Yes Jillio, but you also are an individual example, a good example , but we couldn't move every family and deaf kid as you mentioned. Also catering high quality services and education to every deaf kid is also difficult , because after a point this goes beyond being about deaf education and reaches a point where we can question the quality of educational system provided overall (to deaf and hearing and all other kind of kids).

So after 500 messages, I would like to ask, what are the practical suggestions coming out from this thread. Putting who is right and wrong a side, is there a conclusion we reach that can make at least some changes in real life (in terms of improving things)?

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Absolutely. We can make changes in the way that options are presented to hearing parents, in particular, by giving them all of the information availble, accurrate information, that is based on recoreded results over time more than an ethnocentric perpsective of language. We can push for early intervention programs that provide stimuli to the deaf child based on their innate strengths,rather than focusin on their weaknesses. Utilization of their innate strengths gives them a foundation on which to build, and makes overcoming the weaknesses a less arduous task. That would be a beginning on which to build.
 
Hermes said:
Yes Jillio, but you also are an individual example, a good example , but we couldn't move every family and deaf kid as you mentioned. Also catering high quality services and education to every deaf kid is also difficult , because after a point this goes beyond being about deaf education and reaches a point where we can question the quality of educational system provided overall (to deaf and hearing and all other kind of kids).

So after 500 messages, I would like to ask, what are the practical suggestions coming out from this thread. Putting who is right and wrong a side, is there a conclusion we reach that can make at least some changes in real life (in terms of improving things)?

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Yes. Deaf in charge of deaf education. No other input.All others stay out.
 
shel90 said:
I see that some people made comments about Jillo and I saying the same thing or we agree on everything.

Maybe ask yourselves why is that?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact we have both personal and professional experiences in the Field of Deaf Ed/Language acquisition/both fluent in ASL/both see the constant influx of deaf children with poor literacy skills from the "wait and see" approach/both believe in the holistic approach of deaf children? :hmm:

It is not about being in a clique, not about taking sides, not about winning or losing. Jillo said it best...it is about creating a win-win environment for ALL deaf children so no child is put at risk for language deficients.

Funny..I have never met Jillo and it is amazing how much in common we have and how much we have the same views. Yes, that is rare and I admit I am surprised by that. *shrug*
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Hopefully, Shel, as the wheels of deaf education grind on, you will become less and less surprised.
 
Hermes said:
Yes Jillio, but you also are an individual example, a good example , but we couldn't move every family and deaf kid as you mentioned. Also catering high quality services and education to every deaf kid is also difficult , because after a point this goes beyond being about deaf education and reaches a point where we can question the quality of educational system provided overall (to deaf and hearing and all other kind of kids).

So after 500 messages, I would like to ask, what are the practical suggestions coming out from this thread. Putting who is right and wrong a side, is there a conclusion we reach that can make at least some changes in real life (in terms of improving things)?

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First, it starts out with educating people about the importance of ASL and that Deaf children do not need special ed services nor special ed techniques and then eliminate on the myths and misconceptions about ASL/English and literacy skills. After that, I would like go from there but since it has proved to be difficult, improving Deaf education for all deaf children will probably not happen.
 
Daredevel7 said:
The original post was a little more specific than simply choosing a language. I'll post it again here (for those who are like me, "I have to move my mouse alllll the way over there to click to go back, GOSH!"):

"Would they try to teach him/her spoken language first, and if it is too difficult, then try to teach ASL to gain vocabulary? Or would you rather spare the child the difficulty of learning spoken language and go straight to teaching ASL? Assuming parents are both hearing, and willing to do whatever it takes to communicate with their child."

Obviously, there's so much diversity. I thought it would be better to try to examine a more specific case.
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Yes Daredevel, but the thread also went to a direction questioning which one should be kids native language in general. I believe its still a valid and related question and after so many things being said in this thread , I am wondering if anything came out of it , in terms of answering these questions.

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shel90 said:
What do you mean by that? Can u clarify that? Thanks
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I believe and will bet next month's check that she means to tear asunder the ivory tower stacked with hearing people who think they know how to educate the deaf and after having failed for 100 years, it is time to let the deaf do it. I'd make an exception for a few hearing people, though.
 
Tousi said:
I believe and will bet next month's check that she means to tear asunder the ivory tower stacked with hearing people who think they know how to educate the deaf and after having failed for 100 years, it is time to let the deaf do it. I'd make an exception for a few hearing people, though.
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I would most definately agree with that!
 
Tousi said:
I believe and will bet next month's check that she means to tear asunder the ivory tower stacked with hearing people who think they know how to educate the deaf and after having failed for 100 years, it is time to let the deaf do it. I'd make an exception for a few hearing people, though.
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Tousi, that is exactly what I meant, but I said it in fewer words.
 
Tousi said:
I believe and will bet next month's check that she means to tear asunder the ivory tower stacked with hearing people who think they know how to educate the deaf and after having failed for 100 years, it is time to let the deaf do it. I'd make an exception for a few hearing people, though.
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I'm deaf, and they think my opinions and experience matters to none. Oh and you have to be a teacher in deaf education to be allowed do all the talking too. :giggle:
 
Cheri said:
I'm deaf, and they think my opinions and experience matters to none. Oh and you have to be a teacher in deaf education to be allowed do all the talking too. :giggle:
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Would you prefer that we just continue with the last 100 years of failure?

And trust me, when it comes to promotion of bi-bi over TC, we do take your experience into account. You have no idea how often.
 
Cheri said:
I'm deaf, and they think my opinions and experience matters to none. Oh and you have to be a teacher in deaf education to be allowed do all the talking too. :giggle:
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Overlooked deaf unite!
 
Bottesini said:
Yes. Deaf in charge of deaf education. No other input.All others stay out.
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Since majority of hearing people are already stayed out in great part of this thread, there is only Jillio who made the most contribution as a hearing person . But then she brought some good information too..

I believe you do not mean this thread but saying hearing people should stay out in the decision making process in real life. You live together with those hearing people, they are in government, they are at the school boards, some of them are parents of those deaf kids, some of them are specialists etc...

Do you see a way of keeping them really out of this in practice? But then this could be another thread , I do not know if it was discussed in the past. If not maybe somebody can start it. If it was discussed perhaps person who knows the thread can provide a link. I would be interested in reading that.

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Bottesini said:
I would not be possible to be clearer . Those are very blunt statements.
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I wasnt sure if that was meant to be sarcastic or not. Thanks for clarifying!
 
Tousi said:
I believe and will bet next month's check that she means to tear asunder the ivory tower stacked with hearing people who think they know how to educate the deaf and after having failed for 100 years, it is time to let the deaf do it. I'd make an exception for a few hearing people, though.
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Yea, there are a lot of hearing people at my work who listen to deaf people's perspective and do their best to meet their students' needs. I just love them to death cuz they dont try to force their hearing viewpoints on us. Sure, some of them believe in giving every deaf child a chance to learn oral skills.
 
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