Sould hearing people that know ASL use sign all the time if a Deaf person is present?

VamPyroX said:
Think of it this way.

Should a deaf person (who can talk) use his or her own voice in front of hearing people all the time?
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Dont have to cuz if hearing people know sign, they can understand sign language if the deaf person is not using their voice. However, for hearing people who dont know sign and the deaf person has to use his or her voice in front of them..if the deaf person has good speech skills, why not but if the deaf person has no speech skills so no point in making gargling sounds and end up having people think that person has issues.
 
VamPyroX said:
It's the same thing.

If a hearing person can sign and a deaf person is around, should that hearing person sign so that the deaf person can understand what's going on? Well, that would be a burden on the hearing person and everyone who has thought about learning sign language. Expecting that hearing person to sign would be like telling every hearing person that's learning sign language... "If you're learning sign language, be prepared to sign at all times whenever a deaf person is present." That wouldn't be fair. We have our own preferences of communication. If that deaf person is part of the conversation, then signing should be included to help the deaf person understand. If the deaf person isn't part of the conversation, then signing shouldn't be required.

The same thing applies to deaf people who can speak... like myself. If a deaf person is signing to another deaf person and a hearing person is involved with the conversation, then voicing should be included so that the hearing person can understand what is going on.
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Well..sure the heaing people should sign if the deaf person is present cuz in the hearing world, hearing people who arent involved in the conversations have access to them simply by overhearing them but deaf people dont have that abilitity and since the majority of the hearing people dont know sign language, we are used to being left out. However if the hearing people know sign, why not? Maybe the deaf person will be able to relate to the conversation and join. Nice way to meet people anyway..
 
I am in this situation OFTEN as a CSUN student, and now a terp. But as I was taught, and as just seems common sense to me, if a Deaf person is in the room, I sign.
/ Like Interpretrator said, if the Deaf people are not watching and active in the conversation, I let the signing go a little bit, but sign enough that if they looked over they could get the general idea, and it would show that they are WELCOME to join the conversation at any point. I don't interpret the hearing people speaking if a Deaf person isn't watching the conversation, but if they start to watch, and give me any indication that they want to know what the hearing person is saying through me, I will interpret.
/ I don't consider it a burden, I consider communication to be a RIGHT, not a privilege, and it is a RIGHT that many Deaf people are deprived of much of the time. It doesn't matter how pissed I am with Deaf friends, clients, etc, I will sign and I will interpret.
/ Sim-com/intepreting can become a bit of a hassle, but if I ever feel annoyed with it, I honestly feel annoyed with the hearing people because they could learn sign. I don't always interpret for hearing people or feel the need to speak because they have ACCESS to the language. They don't always know what's being said, but they could learn to understand it. I still do interpret the majority of the time, but I don't feel it as much a requirement as a courtesy.

ASLGAL said:
My question is "Why-Not"? I'm not sure I understand the significance of the original question.
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Many, many, MANY, hearing people who know sign will choose, consciously or unconsciously to NOT use it in front of Deaf people. They either forget, consider it a burden, don't care, are pissed at a/the deaf people in the room, or something else...I am in situations like that all the time, and it is EXTREMELY uncomfortable for ME, can't imagine how the Deaf people in the room feel. Sometimes everyone in the room knows sign and still some hearing people, and deaf people who can speak/lipread, will choose not to sign. What do I do??? At that point I really feel it is up to the Deaf person to let other people know they want them to sign. If a Deaf person directly asks me to interpret I do, but that rarely happens. Instead the Deaf person will simply get left out when everyone in the room knows their language. The Deaf person keeps waiting for the other people to sign, or just puts up with being left out cuz they're used to it....I agree, Why not? But theory and practice are not always the same..
 
I think it's complicated. I do try to be respectful enough to sign if there's a deaf person within the area, however sim-comming is not effective in any decent conversation. Also, if the person i'm talking to is hearing and can't sign, the question would turn into do I start interpreting for them, or would the deaf person just be able to see one side of the conversation? I shoudn't have to be in interpreter mode in a casual setting.

For the record, i'm an interpreter, i'm hearing, and i'm a coda.
 
signer16 said:
Many, many, MANY, hearing people who know sign will choose, consciously or unconsciously to NOT use it in front of Deaf people.
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Yeah, I'm reminded of a deaf event I went to once with some classmates from my ITP. At this point we were all more than capable of conversing in sign, yet for some reason I remember at one point a few of them were standing around talking without signing. At a DEAF EVENT! Yes, there were many hearing people there, but I thought it was simply the height of rudeness to go to this event as conversant signers and then stand around talking. My guess is that at a certain point they got into a conversation where it was just easier to talk in English, but to my mind if you absolutely can't or don't want to have the conversation in sign, walk around the corner or something.

At an event where there may be deaf people, or there happens to be one deaf person, it becomes more of a grey area for me. I totally agree with vrsterp, like I said, that one language is always going to suffer in sim-comming, and also that we don't want to have to be interpreters in a casual, non-work situation. But at an event specifically for deaf people to socialize and converse and where they have been nice enough to invite hearing signers? It was so rude.
 
Interpretrator said:
Yeah, I'm reminded of a deaf event I went to once with some classmates from my ITP. At this point we were all more than capable of conversing in sign, yet for some reason I remember at one point a few of them were standing around talking without signing. At a DEAF EVENT! Yes, there were many hearing people there, but I thought it was simply the height of rudeness to go to this event as conversant signers and then stand around talking. My guess is that at a certain point they got into a conversation where it was just easier to talk in English, but to my mind if you absolutely can't or don't want to have the conversation in sign, walk around the corner or something.

At an event where there may be deaf people, or there happens to be one deaf person, it becomes more of a grey area for me. I totally agree with vrsterp, like I said, that one language is always going to suffer in sim-comming, and also that we don't want to have to be interpreters in a casual, non-work situation. But at an event specifically for deaf people to socialize and converse and where they have been nice enough to invite hearing signers? It was so rude.
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Agreed 100%
 
Silentwolfdog said:
That's what I am thinking. Do you ever think it as a burden for you? I am just curious.
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I'll answer this one. Yes, it's a burden, somewhat. Because signing and talking at the same time is difficult. But it just slows me down a bit. If deaf people are near and paying attention, I sign. If not, I don't. Usually my brother is at a party with me and I sign what people say, and if he stops paying attention I wait until he wants me to sign again. Sometimes he's bored by what people say. :)
 
Interpretrator said:
...and also that we don't want to have to be interpreters in a casual, non-work situation.
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Heh. That's the time I AM an interpreter. ;) I'm so used to voicing for my brother that when there's a terps around and we're all just talking, I end up voicing what he's saying sometimes, just because I'm used to doing that around hearies.
 
Absolutely! If hearing people sim-commed around Deaf people, it would make it so much easier. One of my main goals as an interpreter: Equal Access
 
Capmeister said:
Heh. That's the time I AM an interpreter. ;) I'm so used to voicing for my brother that when there's a terps around and we're all just talking, I end up voicing what he's saying sometimes, just because I'm used to doing that around hearies.
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I've caught myself doing that with some of my students when their terp is present. Hard to break the habit!
 
Sheila said:
Absolutely! If hearing people sim-commed around Deaf people, it would make it so much easier. One of my main goals as an interpreter: Equal Access
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How long have you been interpreting?
 
Sheila said:
Absolutely! If hearing people sim-commed around Deaf people, it would make it so much easier. One of my main goals as an interpreter: Equal Access
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How do u sim-com? I tried it..too hard for me cuz my thoughts get to jumbled up and I cant organized them when dealing with 2 languages at the same time. Guess it is just too hard for me.
 
shel90 said:
How do u sim-com? I tried it..too hard for me cuz my thoughts get to jumbled up and I cant organized them when dealing with 2 languages at the same time. Guess it is just too hard for me.
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LOL I'm still working on that one myself. You can't (well you CAN, if you can separate your brain into two which I've seen some people attempt) sign ASL and speak English at the same time... so you try to aim for a PSE-happy-medium.
 
Sheila said:
LOL I'm still working on that one myself. You can't (well you CAN, if you can separate your brain into two which I've seen some people attempt) sign ASL and speak English at the same time... so you try to aim for a PSE-happy-medium.
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I think my issue is that when I am using ASL, I am strong ASL and when I am using English, I am strong English. Dont know how to do PSE. When I start signing, my brian automatically revers to creating pictures in my head so when I tried sim-com...it was like a big war between decoding and images. They get all jumbled up.
 
shel90 said:
I think my issue is that when I am using ASL, I am strong ASL and when I am using English, I am strong English. Dont know how to do PSE. When I start signing, my brian automatically revers to creating pictures in my head so when I tried sim-com...it was like a big war between decoding and images. They get all jumbled up.
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I know what you mean. Every now and then, I will say a grammatically correct sentence and have strong ASL on my hands... this is where I stop, look at them, and pick my jaw up. It takes a while, but for me (when I'm in the zone), I don't have any target language in mind. I have my thoughts being expressed simultaneously in different languages. It happens very rarely, but I know it can happen.

Sim-com, in itself, does wear on the brain a bit.
 
shel90 said:
How do u sim-com? I tried it..too hard for me cuz my thoughts get to jumbled up and I cant organized them when dealing with 2 languages at the same time. Guess it is just too hard for me.
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One language will always suffer when sim-comming. It's next to impossible to be fully effective in both languages for an extended period of time. You sort of have to decide which is more important, the English or the sign and skew your brain that way. Also, it's impossible to fully sign ASL and speak English. Definitely when I'm sim-comming it will happen that ASL will slip in (for example, if I say "give to" I'm not going to sign "GIVE TO," I'll sign "GIVE-TO" with the ASL inflection) but for the most part if you're sim-comming, you're going to be signing English.

Mostly when I sim-com I'm carrying on an English conversation with someone and there are deaf people around, so I let the sign slip a little, the idea being that if someone is "eavesdropping" and can see enough from my signs that the conversation is interesting, they can join in.

Another situation where I use sim-com is with deaf people who use it. I know someone who has a pretty good amount of hearing and uses his voice with hearing people but also signs at the same time, so I do both with him as well. In that case my emphasis is on the sign.

I would never teach a class in sim-com. Maybe there are people out there who can very effectively convey their message speaking and signing at the same time but I am not one of them (and I also suspect many people who think they are, are not). I would teach either entirely in English or entirely in ASL (or English sign depending on the students' needs) and have an interpreter if necessary.
 
Those topics about sim-com make me remember when professor is reading something from the book or paper to the class. The interpreter would sign what the professor said, I could not watch interpreter and read something at the same time. I can't understand two languages at the same time so I have to either give up sign language or English. Of course, I've always chosen to read over listen to the interpreter. Often interpreters were aware of that and they will stop signing to let me finish reading something before they continued.

So I can sort of understand how hard sim-com must be for most people.

It truly shows how different those two languages are.
 
shel90 said:
I think my issue is that when I am using ASL, I am strong ASL and when I am using English, I am strong English. Dont know how to do PSE. When I start signing, my brian automatically revers to creating pictures in my head so when I tried sim-com...it was like a big war between decoding and images. They get all jumbled up.
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lol like patting your head and rub your stomach at the same time lol.. smile
 
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