Sotomayor's views on guns prompt questions

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Humour me

Ok I openly admit I haven't read any of your posts regarding this subject but can you just humour me for a thread?

the US has the worse gun crime in the civilised countrys, yes you need guns to protect yourselves from allowing guns, and for allowing the junkies etc to be able to get access to so many of them .
the right to bear arms is I'm sorry to say pathetic, your policiy is the only reason you need to bear them, the sporting rights have no bearing in this debate unless the scumbags are using, "hey i got 22 out of 30 check out assisntants last night":hmm:
look at the bigger picture! ban them now and protect your offspring, guns other than real sporting/hunting have no place in our soiciety other than to right a wrong, where some dysfuctional continent have allowed them to be used freely, which no doubt the normal people will regret, ye cant use the," but we need to defend ourseleves" you let the damn guns loose, ban them and protect your future generations and stop being so bloody selfish.
 
I certainly don't expect or want to be a hero. Yes, things can be replaced but life cannot be. So, if an intruder comes into your home with a gun, and says, "I'm going to kill you," you wouldn't be willing to shoot him?


If someone enters your property in a threatening manner then you do have the legal right to defend yourself.

I would rather enjoy freedom too, but I prefer to be alive to enjoy it.

If you wait until someone actually attacks you, then it's too late. If he gets the first shot off to your head or heart, what will you do?

It doesn't matter because either way with a gun or no gun, somebody will get shot--the robber, or the victim or both. I'll may would feel confident enough to use my own abilities to take the robber down even if he has a gun or not. I'm a strong woman and I'm not afraid to defend myself handily. I don't need to feel powerful to have a gun. ;) The last thing I want to be involved in a shooting and guns obviously make it so much easier to kill people and that's a fact. Guns do bring trouble automatically, even drive-by shootings could never occur without guns.
 
Reba already said what I was going to reply with. Alarms do work and scare off intruders. alarms should be in peoples home defense plan. I've always believed in layers of defense.
Alarms, motion dectors and lights in the plan. the outter layer.
deadbolts and dogs the next layer
the last and final layer is a gun.

so now, just going to share an article from www.saami.org the article is called 'Close to Home'
Thanks for the link. :ty:
 
Thanks for the link. :ty:


well Reba, if there are no guns available, they wont be able to shoot you either. there's no pointing going down the silly" they will get them from elsewhere", google up the crime figures form europe, focus on house break ins, see the diff with your gun crime and almost any idiot can buy one.

im sorry but you lot need to see sense and ban them, the actual figures from sporting use dont amount to a debate.

and dont get me wrong, i hunted for years, owned 5 guns, took part in 2 clay pigeons competitions per week for years, im not a greeny, but then my head is also not stuck up my arse, when i stopped competing I realised owning guns posed too high a risk to make it worthwhile so i handed most into the police and sold the rest to other people I knew(and licensed)

the yank own a gun thing is, im sorry to say but almost third world counrty view, it's scary to see, the bloody thirsty hillybillies in full flow.
 
Ok I openly admit I haven't read any of your posts regarding this subject but can you just humour me for a thread?

the US has the worse gun crime in the civilised countrys, yes you need guns to protect yourselves from allowing guns, and for allowing the junkies etc to be able to get access to so many of them .
the right to bear arms is I'm sorry to say pathetic, your policiy is the only reason you need to bear them, the sporting rights have no bearing in this debate unless the scumbags are using, "hey i got 22 out of 30 check out assisntants last night":hmm:
look at the bigger picture! ban them now and protect your offspring, guns other than real sporting/hunting have no place in our soiciety other than to right a wrong, where some dysfuctional continent have allowed them to be used freely, which no doubt the normal people will regret, ye cant use the," but we need to defend ourseleves" you let the damn guns loose, ban them and protect your future generations and stop being so bloody selfish.
The Second Amendment to the Constitution wasn't created for sportsmen or even self defense against criminals. Those are side effects. The Second Amendment was created to prevent take over of the citizenry by a tyrannical government. History has shown us that unarmed citizens are at the mercy of a dictator's power. By our citizens keeping, maintaining, and using their weapons as sportsmen and target shooters they become experienced and better trained if they are ever needed for more serious shooting.

Of course, we hope it never comes to that but if it does we won't be sitting ducks.
 
well Reba, if there are no guns available, they wont be able to shoot you either. there's no pointing going down the silly" they will get them from elsewhere", google up the crime figures form europe, focus on house break ins, see the diff with your gun crime and almost any idiot can buy one.

im sorry but you lot need to see sense and ban them, the actual figures from sporting use dont amount to a debate.

and dont get me wrong, i hunted for years, owned 5 guns, took part in 2 clay pigeons competitions per week for years, im not a greeny, but then my head is also not stuck up my arse, when i stopped competing I realised owning guns posed too high a risk to make it worthwhile so i handed most into the police and sold the rest to other people I knew(and licensed)

the yank own a gun thing is, im sorry to say but almost third world counrty view, it's scary to see, the bloody thirsty hillybillies in full flow.
Are you recommending banning all kinds of guns from private citizens?

How would you collect them from all the criminals?

What risk did owning your guns pose to you?

I just want to be clear about your position (other than just not having your head stuck up your arse, heh, heh). ;)

p.s.
No hillbillies in my area of the Southeast--we don't even have any hills or rocks. Charleston, SC is at sea level. :giggle:
 
Cheri, try this link:

SAAMI | Publications

and then scroll down to #228 "Close to Home" and click on that. Maybe that will work for you.
 
You could read what CCSinned had provided? Cuz I couldn't even open it. :hmm:

from the link:
Close To Home
An Overview Of The Issues Concerning The Use Of Firearms For Home Protection


INTRODUCTION
At times the question is purely academic
– a debate about whether a firearm in the home is more likely to protect or endanger its owner. The question is brought closer to home when robberies or assaults in a community cause people to consider owning a firearm for personal protection. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI) neither advocates nor discourages the use of a firearm for home protection.
We believe it is inappropriate for any organization to make a blanket recommendation that an individual in Maine, Montana or Massachusetts should or should not maintain a firearm for self-protection. This reference is
offered as a responsible examination of the issues that you should consider when making the very serious, very personal decision about the use of a firearm for home protection. In examining whether a firearm in the home is a
risk or a benefit, four issues are at the core of the debate: Is a gun in the home more likely to be used to protect its owner or to be used against a member of the household; how frequently are guns used for self-protection;
how effective are they when they are used; and how safe are guns in the home?

A GUN IN THE HOME IS 43 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE USED
AGAINST YOU — OR IS IT?
One of the most widely quoted statements about guns is that a firearm kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. This comes from a study first published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1986,i following a sixyear review of gunshot deaths in Seattle,
Washington, conducted by Dr. Arthur Kellermann et al. The validity of this study in determining the value and risk of firearms for home protection has been questioned due to its limited focus. The Kellermann study viewed defensive gun uses only as instances in which the criminal intruder was shot and killed.
Instances in which intruders or assailants were wounded or frightened away by the use or display of a firearm were not included. Kellermann admitted that, “Studies such as ours do not include cases in which intruders are wounded or frightened away by the use or display of a firearm. A complete determination of firearm risks versus benefits would require these figures be known.” ii Kellermann’s approach was not unlike measuring the effectiveness of police officers solely on the basis of the number of criminals they kill. Others argue that when people defend themselves with firearms, they are frequently disarmed by criminals and assaulted. According to findings in a National Crime Survey, less than one percent of defensive gun uses result in the offender’s taking the firearm from the victim and then using it against him or her.iii

THE DETERRENT FACTOR —
HOW EFFECTIVE IS A FIREARM IN
DETERRING CRIME IN THE
HOME?
There are occasions when firearms can be used as effective tools for self-defense. There are no precise statistics maintained on how many times a year firearms are used defensively, but there are a number of estimates. Polls
by the Los Angeles Times, Gallup, and Peter Hart Research Associates show that there are at least 760,000, and possibly as many as 3.6 million, defensive uses of guns per year. In 98 percent of the cases, such polls show, people simply brandish the weapon to stop an attack.iv
Professor Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University, indicates there are upward of 2.4 million defensive uses annually.v
Kleck’s research is considered the largest national study on this topic, to date. In a follow- up survey of those who reported the defensive use of a firearm, one in six respondents said they believed their intervention with a
firearm prevented the loss of life.vi This suggests that upward of 400,000 lives are being saved by the use of a firearm annually – a sharp contrast to Dr. Kellermann’s claims.
Some argue that the presence of a gun escalates the level of violence and does little to deter crime. Common sense and statistical evidence
suggest that most criminals will not knowingly attempt a crime against an armed individual. Sociologists James Wright and Peter Rossi surveyed 1,900 convicted felons and concluded that 40 percent decided to forego committing a crime at one time or another because they believed their intended
victims were armed.vii A 1979-1985 National Crime Survey report indicated 50.6 percent of victims who resisted physically were injured, 40.3 percent who resisted with a knife were injured, 34.9 percent who offered little resistance or tried to flee were injured, but only 17.4 percent of victims offering armed resistance were injured.viii
A 1996 study by University of Chicago Law Professor John Lott and University of Chicago economics graduate student David Mustard found that firearms are overwhelmingly effective in deterring crime. The study, which focused on concealed firearms, found that states with concealed weapons laws reduced murders by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent and aggravated assaults by 7 percent.
According to Mr. Lott, “... criminals respond rationally to deterrence threats.”ix
“Hot” burglaries, or burglaries in which the victim is home, account for nearly half of all burglaries in Canada and Britain where gun control laws are tough. Conversely, in America, where gun ownership is prevalent, only 13 percent of all burglaries are “hot.”
Criminals do not behave differently by accident. Studies show that criminals are far more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about the police.


INVITING AN ACCIDENT?
Opponents of firearms for home protection argue that bringing a gun into the home is inviting an accident. Any perceived or actual risk associated with a firearm in the home can be minimized or negated with education and safe handling and storage techniques. The mere presence of a gun in the home does not increase the likelihood that an accident will occur. The number of firearms in American homes has increased approximately 45 percent since 1973,xi while the number of accidental firearms fatalities in the home has steadily decreased from a high of 1,400 in 1974 to 500 in 2002.xii
Often, the incidents of firearms accidents in the home are exaggerated by certain special interest groups to discourage ownership of firearms. The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence (CPHV), for example, used unpublished 1994 data from the National Center for Health Statistics and reported: “Every day, 15 children, age 19 and under, are killed with guns.” Statements like this mask the issue and confuse people who are considering the purchase of a firearm for home protection.
According to data from the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, the actual number of children aged one to 19 who died in firearms-related accidents was 512 in 1994, not the 5,475 claimed by the CPHV. xiv
These, and all accidental deaths, are tragedies best prevented by providing training and education. Even considering the number of young people murdered with firearms, the CPHV statistics are exaggerated. According to the Bureau of Statistics’ Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics (1994), 3,074 young people, aged 19 and under, were murdered with a firearm in 1993, with 2,650 of the victims aged 15-19.xv In both the 14-17 and 18-24 year-old categories, nearly 90 percent of all homicide victims, regardless of how they were killed, died at the hands of someone outside of the family.xvi

Much of the danger lies with firearms not in the home but in the hands of criminals on the streets. The number of young people and adults killed in firearms homicides is a national tragedy. This problem is not one-dimensional
and cannot be attributed solely to the presence of a gun. Mixing the very low number of accidents with the much greater number of intentional killings distorts the facts necessary to make the personal determination regarding firearms ownership. Exaggerating or sensationalizing the problem serves no useful purpose and diverts attention from developing solutions.

SERIOUS CONSIDERATIONS
There are certain factors that argue against keeping a firearm in the home for
self-protection. Firearms ownership requires an honest evaluation of personal circumstances.
Are your security concerns realistic and consistent with local crime rates? Do
other adults in your household support the decision to maintain a gun in the house? If they will have access to the firearm, will they join you in a firearms training and safety program?
What precautions will be practiced to safeguard children? Do risk factors such as drug and alcohol abuse exist within your household? If you are not willing to accept certain basic responsibilities and adhere to important rules of firearms ownership and storage, the members of SAAMI would urge that you not purchase a firearm.

MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT
If you decide to keep a firearm in your home for self-protection, you need to take special safety measures. Keeping a gun to defend your family necessitates strict adherence to safe and responsible firearms storage
and handling techniques. In keepinga firearm for self-protection, create a situation in which the firearm is readily available to you, yet inaccessible or inoperative to others. Quickrelease trigger locks, chamber/cylinder locks or special locked cases that can be instantly opened by authorized individuals are options to consider. Your most important responsibility is ensuring that children cannot encounter loaded firearms. The precautions must be
completely effective. Most fatal home firearms accidents occur when youngsters – often children who do not live in the home – discover firearms that have been left loaded and unsecured.

IN CONCLUSION
The decision to maintain a firearm in the home for self-protection is a serious, personal matter. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute emphasizes that maintaining a firearm for home protection is not appropriate for all homes or all individuals.
We believe that well-informed adults are capable of making decisions that best suit their individual needs and circumstances. SAAMI recognizes that there is no simple “yes” or “no” answer to the question of the use of firearms for home protection.
Unlike passive safety devices, such as alarm systems, firearms used for home protection require significantly more involvement by the owner. Any added safety benefit that may be derived from a firearm depends in large measure on the owner’s commitment to appropriate training and a clear understanding
of safe handling and storage rules. In addition, issues such as individual temperament, reaction to emergency situations and specific family circumstances should also enter into the decision. Free firearms safety information may be obtained directly from

SAAMI at: Sporting Arms and Ammunition
Manufacturers’ Institute, 11 Mile Hill Road,
Newtown, CT 06470-2359.
hope that helps
 
hey reba ;)

yes no private citizens should own guns other than them licensed for hunting or competition use.

the risk of people ownign guns is pretty obvious and hardly needs expalining, it makes it easier for undesirelabes to get access and to use firearms, through theft or bad security.

the hilibilly jibe was intentionally sarcastic as you all act like that, the west cannot understand why the yanks, americans need to fell big and be armed, knowing that when doing so they are also making guns available to the criminals, but do they care? no, not if they can piss further up the wall or shoot bigger holes in the wall.

as for unarming the criminals, well thats a catch 22, one your trigger happy citizens have created by allowing any arsehole to own a gun, and one you will have to suffer from to put right, you have 2 choices, buy more guns and hope you can shoot them all first, or ban guns and let the police do their job, it wont be easy but you will get there in the long run.

your stupid death come easy policy even effetcs the UK, the IRA bought most of their guns from the US, and even raised the money to buy them there, from which the killed numerous kids, mothers and fathers, why? because we dont sell guns here, you might argue you have rules, yes but they are so lenient they are always going to be abused.
yes we have gun deaths, we always will when the criminals can go to the americas and smuggle them over, but look at the figures!! we are alot safe here than in the US.
 
:confused: I didn't say that. You've said my chance of surviving will be slim if I don't own a gun, and that's not true.

And CCSinned--Only a minority of owners actually use their guns for self-protection. Many home-owners nowadays have a burglar alarm system, that's their self-home protection.

And shooting a robber does not necessarily means saving the life of a victim because a victim could get shot too if a robber has a gun and that victim will just going to be a dead gun owner, You cannot just shoot a robber just a moment he/she walks in your home, you have to be the first to be attacked in order to use guns for self-defense. Guns are always supposed to be used as a last resort. You have other options of self-defense tools to use in a self-defense situation, such as pepper spray, stun guns, taser, mace spray, guard dogs, nunchucks, knives, self-defense classes and many more. Everyone has a 50/50 percent of a chance of surviving with a weapon of their choice, not just those who own a gun. :)

Okay. Your post is good enough by then. ;) Well, still, I prefer to have a high survival percents rather than 50-50 percents. So I still disagree. :)

Without guns or guns are illegal...

If you hold a small knife against a person with a long and metallic rod, you would get a less than 50 percents to survive the beating by the metallic rod. Because your knife is much smaller and low defense than the rod. But if you successfully knock out his/her metallic rod and you grab it from the enemy, but your enemy grabs quickly an another weapon.

If you hold a metallic rod against a person with his or her hard wooden chair, you would have about 10% to 30% percents chance to survive the chair. Because the chair is larger enough to knock you down, so your rod is not much any help at all. The escape option is only available for your own life. But if you, again, successfully knock out his/her weapon to get it from him/her. The person would grab another weapon ...

If you hold a hard wooden chair against a person with his saw machine, you would get a less than 20% chance to survive. The saw machine could break your chair and to slice you off.

To me, there is not so many 50-50 chances in any situation. It's depend what you hold a weapon against another person who holds a different weapon. You would get small or high precents to live while the another person have the opposite percents.

With guns or guns are legal...

There is no win-win situation for Person vs. Person if both have a different weapon would like this:

Gun defeats small knife.
Gun defeats metallic rod.
Gun defeats wooden chair.
Gun defeats saw machine.
But guns do save people's lives.

So, I personally prefer to shoot in someone's shoulder that would knock him/her down before I able to call 911... to me, the "killing someone" option is not always good answer.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
But guns do save people's lives.

Guns saves people's lives? :ugh: I don't see how guns saves lives only that it may saves those who are trying to defend themselves but guns do make it so much easier to committed violent crimes, accidental firing of guns, committed suicides, so just exactly how that saves lives?
 
Guns saves people's lives? :ugh: I don't see how guns saves lives only that it may saves those who are trying to defend themselves but guns do make it so much easier to committed violent crimes, accidental firing of guns, committed suicides, so just exactly how that saves lives?

:shock:
*headdesk*

Okay, maybe I made not clear myself. Mmmm...

Okay - - I meant, look at C.C.Sinned's several posts about guns saved people's lives. For example, a man saw some gangs came to his place and all gangs have various weapons but no guns. The man had his gun ready, and told them off to leave the place or shoot them down. They scared and ran away. If not for his own gun, how would the man able to defend himself against five gangs with five weapons?

That is my point.

I hope you get what I mean. ^_^
 
Okay :ty: for a better clarification, The surprising truth is that guns have pluses and minuses.

I've said it once and I'll say it again that I have no problems with gun owners using their guns for a purpose which is to protect themselves from danger. I wouldn't want to put good people's lives in jeopardy. I only had stated that I have a problem with people using guns for all the wrong reasons, and you continuing to fail to see where I'm coming from, with that being said, I'm done. ;)
 
Ah, I said no such thing about guns are being alive. :P I just said guns would save people's lives. So I believe guns do save them in some ways. :)

Ah, okay, I get you now. Good debate for us. ;) So, I'm done for now, too. :cheers:
 
Okay :ty: for a better clarification, The surprising truth is that guns have pluses and minuses.

;)

the only plus side of owning a gun is you can shoot people who oppose the banning of them:lol:

the protection crap is by the gun lobby, it has long been proven that no guns mean less deaths, or at least stricter controls, but try telling an american he's not allowed to shoot someone:shock:im not syaing he's going to buit he just wnats to have the rights to:shock:, be it a small dick or whatever, i have no idea, but it stinks of machoism.
how many of these people have small envoiromently friendly cars? bet 90 odd percent of them have sports or four whell drive gas guzzlers, be honest now, confess? the vast majority of pro gun lobby wont be envoiromentally pro. coincendence? lol i think not, guns to some idiots are extensions to their dicks, and they manage to influence soem naive girls that the world needs guns, when will the girls see through the crap and ask, welll why??>? look at the rest of the worlds records with less deaths, em nope thats too easy I guess.
 
Guns saves people's lives? :ugh: I don't see how guns saves lives only that it may saves those who are trying to defend themselves but guns do make it so much easier to committed violent crimes, accidental firing of guns, committed suicides, so just exactly how that saves lives?

absolutely. Do you know why you and your family and your neighbors and 300 million Americans continue to have freedom and liberty? yep 2nd Amendment :cool2:

It prevents tyranny from taking away our human rights and dignity.
 
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