Should the Deaf Be Considered an Ethnic Group?

[TheOracle]

I was being sarcastic with that comment.

oh.

 

[TheOracle]

I don't understand this. I know adopted Oriental kids who are very much into the heritage of their adoptive parents.

Right. But she has options when it comes to identification. :P Also, when using the terms "ethnic group" in the U.S., you take the criteria I used and add "minority" group.

Hence "ethnic Kurds" in Iraq.

 

[TheOracle]

Race? You just broke six billion people into a couple of racial categories? Uh, no. I disapprove. I disapprove of the idea of races anyway, since it's not biologically sound, but whatever.

Also, since people can convert into Judaism, you just killed your argument.

I'm going to go ahead and add that the scientific community doesn't classify people into racial categories like you just did. It's not medical! Unless you're Mengele.

 

[TheOracle]

Most hearing people have proved themselves to be incapable of making totally indepedent "informed decisions". In reality, it's more a luck and go choice than a real informed decision.

I don't care if that makes you tired to read this, and me an enemy of you, because it's a fact. Else you wouldn't get this tired by chanting "parental decision" to deaf ears that don't get what you are talking about.

The idea that some deaf people in this thread look at hearing people as the enemy is truly paranoid. I feel sorry for you.

that's totally uncalled for. parental rights v. Deaf rights of people on the internet to make decisions about your children, your life, your finances...?

I'm gonna go ahead with, "Whoever shot the kid out of her vagina has the final say."

I'm hearing and am capable of making independent and informed decisions. Thanks.

 

[GrendelQ]

I don't understand this. I know adopted Oriental kids who are very much into the heritage of their adoptive parents.

Yes, i think they become culturally American ( or whatever the adoptive family is) -- sharing common language, food, values, geogaphy, etc. But they can't change or choose their ethnicity. They are and always will be genetically linked to a group with a common heritage. Li is and always will be ethnically Chinese, something we're finding that she's already very attached to culturally, as well, gravitating towards the language, customs, dress, and proudly claiming her Chinese-ness.

 

[naisho]

Help me out, please.

You aren't saying that African, Asian, Spanish, European, and American are races, are you? I just want to be sure.

No, I was refining the old white, black, asian, hispanic concept. Europe was/is controversial because it is predominantly white skinned for the western parts (when someone thinks of europe, that is my impression of the general idea) you take it one step further, and break this into Germans, French, Italian, and so on.

How so? That outcome sounds like it should be "cultural" not "ethnic." All of those actions are things you actively choose, as opposed to an ethnicity, which is something you are born to, based on your heritage, biology and geography. My daughter doesn't live in China, doesn't use Chinese languages as her primary means of communication, doesn't live with a Chinese family, may not marry Chinese (tho' she might), doesn't work in a place focused on Chinese-ness. Yet she's ethnically Chinese.

She is biologically Chinese. Are you sure she is Ethnic Chinese?

She is biologically Chinese, ethnically she can choose to identify herself as Chinese-American, Mandarin-Chinese, or a combination that will more closely align with her true identity.

Wait, sorry, I don't want to be picky, but Jews aren't the only one who get TS. Jews also get a lot of genetic testing and it is on its way to being eradicated from their gene pool now.
Sorry. :/

Second sentence. Part of what I do for a living consists of reading, transcripts, and analysis that focuses on studies pertaining to people who are Jewish.

That's not how we define ethnicity. You wouldn't say a Spaniard and a Mexican are from the same ethnic group. You wouldn't say that people who spoke Latin are from the same ethnic group. It's more than that. I speak English. My neighbor speaks English. Does that make us part of the same ethnic group?

Here's a wiki definition which I like because it's the same one we used in our humanities courses:

Not all deaf are Deaf. A deaf person in Biloxi should know he's part of a certain ethnicity called Deaf. He may not.

Whether capital Deaf/deaf, it is still not an ethnicity. There is zero heritage involved (currently) to deafness unless you are referring about a genetically passed condition that makes someone deaf at birth and has continued in the gene pool from that point on where all offspring were deaf. This aligns more with a "Deaf Power" concept that is not "correct", if you get what I mean.

Race? You just broke six billion people into a couple of racial categories? Uh, no. I disapprove. I disapprove of the idea of races anyway, since it's not biologically sound, but whatever.
Also, since people can convert into Judaism, you just killed your argument.

Read what I said.. I wrote specifically that I was not going to take the time to list all of them out. It was the sentence right after.. Also, pardon my ignorance, but what does Judaism have to do with this topic?

I'm going to go ahead and add that the scientific community doesn't classify people into racial categories like you just did. It's not medical! Unless you're Mengele.

We observe people by racial and ethnic groups. We know there are nucleotide sequences in difference between Chinese, Japanese, Korean have a p-value greater for similarities compared to Chinese and Africans, or Indians and Cubans. We know the protein composition and certain enzymes are secreted more by some races than others.

This is classification determined by biological and genetic science.


We knew Tay-sachs were in Ashkenazi more than any other race. The ratio of carriers and infected in the past were around 4-5% compared to other races, for example, an asian, which I don't know the numbers, but I'm pretty much willing to assume (for this topic sake) it is in decimal percentages for an asian to get Tay-sachs. Therefore, the asian race is not genetically AND racially relevant in tay-sachs.
You get asked on surveys to identify your race and closest ethnicity. On medical studies, you may get asked to identify your ethnicity for reasons I just listed.

Sickle Cell anemia is found frequently in people of Africans, Indians, Middle east folks.

There are a slew of diseases that isolate the occurrence to specific races.. due to the fact they continually reproduce, and are OF that area!

 

[Reba]

I read it as him saying "Somalian, Mexican, Japanese, German..." are races that come from the geographic overarching African, Asian, Spanish, European, American areas.

Somalian, Mexican, Japanese, and German aren't races either. Those are nationalities.

 

[GrendelQ]

that's totally uncalled for. parental rights v. Deaf rights of people on the internet to make decisions about your children, your life, your finances...?

I'm gonna go ahead with, "Whoever shot the kid out of her vagina has the final say."

I'm hearing and am capable of making independent and informed decisions. Thanks.

Hmm, yeah, the first time I came across that "your child belongs to us, we know far better than you how to raise her," I added the Deaf to a growing list of those to whom she belonged and who knew better than us: The Chinese Government and People, Massachusetts social workers, New York State, The Commonwealths of Virginia and Massachusetts, the USCIS and all whose authority we had to buckle to in the process of bringing her home, my parents, my in-laws ...

I'm ok with it, but just haven't been able to get any of those who claim her to kick in for bills and tuition, meet her bus at 4pm or help with the potty training duties.

 

[naisho]

Unless you're Mengele.

For some humor's sake, Mengele wasn't a geneticist. He just did random observational experiments that served zero function and probably never had a knack for sociology if he classified Jews as a different race just following what Hitler did.

Their classification was faulty, because they based it on physical traits. DNA codons are genetically based and used widely in applications today for explaining differences between species or races even. We know blue eyes (Cue Arayan, Nazi Germany) are different from Brown eyes, but a brown carrier can have the allele for blue, which, by this logic it would break the logic behind the holocaust back then.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Okay. I read a whole thread. And... What I understand... disabilities are not ethnicities, yes?

 

[shel90]

One who is deaf doesnt have to consider themselves as part of the Deaf ethnic group. No biggie. However, I still stand by my belief that Deaf people are an ethnic group based on cultural standards. If I am wrong, then I guess I am. It really doesnt matter..important that people are happy with who they are and who they identify themselves.

 

[naisho]

What I have been continually trying to say is, in the medical world, you'll still be seen your real ethnic/national/racial or whichever you prefer, background.

Deaf group does not mold well for a medical view the same reasons as a homosexual group asking to have their spot as a ethnicity.
It can't be ethnic, legally, unless you want to change the definition of what ethnicity is.

Socially, I believe we can continue to identify deaf as its own group. It deserves it. There is no reason not to do so.
But if you want to challenge the definition, you are going against what education has taught us the past few decades or so, when all the racial concepts expanded. It is going against what we're taught.

 

[naisho]

Somalian, Mexican, Japanese, and German aren't races either. Those are nationalities.

Circa 2010 census. I hope this can help you understand better.

 

[naisho]

Trying another approach, it feels tough to teach people on here.. Everyone keeps trying to refute something but not completely understanding what they are saying if they want to be technically correct.
Maybe this will be of help for people who are seriously confused. You should really take a look at this if you are trying to identify what ethnicity you are (legally). Socially, culturally, anything non-legal won't care what you identify yourself as, even if you want to go ahead and say you are ethnically deaf!

Lists of ethnic groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Reba]

Circa 2010 census. I hope this can help you understand better.

Nationalities have nothing to do with race.

Somalian, Mexican, Japanese, and German are nationalities.

The people who live within the boundaries of a nation are one nationality but they could be several races and combination of races. Example: There are white, black, and Asian people living in Germany. If they are citizens of that country, then they are Germans. Their nationality is German. Their races are white, black, and Asian.

White and black people live in South Africa. Their nationality is South African because they live within the borders of that nation. Their races are white (formerly called Caucasian) and black (formerly called Negro).

Every kind of race is represented in the United States. All citizens of the US, regardless of race, are of the American nationality.

People's nationalities can change if the political boundaries of their nations change. People's races can't change. A person born white stays white, and a person born black stays black, regardless of where they live.

The Census form is screwy because they try to accommodate political correctness without somehow messing up demographic statistics.

 

[naisho]

Nationalities have nothing to do with race.

Somalian, Mexican, Japanese, and German are nationalities.

The people who live within the boundaries of a nation are one nationality but they could be several races and combination of races. Example: There are white, black, and Asian people living in Germany. If they are citizens of that country, then they are Germans. Their nationality is German. Their races are white, black, and Asian.

White and black people live in South Africa. Their nationality is South African because they live within the borders of that nation. Their races are white (formerly called Caucasian) and black (formerly called Negro).

Every kind of race is represented in the United States. All citizens of the US, regardless of race, are of the American nationality.

People's nationalities can change if the political boundaries of their nations change. People's races can't change. A person born white stays white, and a person born black stays black, regardless of where they live.

The Census form is screwy because they try to accommodate political correctness without somehow messing up demographic statistics.

From what I understand in your definition, you likely see it primarily consisting of the five distinct colors.

Sociologists disagree with the physical skin definition due it being outdated, there is an incorporation of variations subjective to the group, hence not being under one mold. In other words, being white skinned doesn't constitute all of the people who are white. I branched it out. Nor does being tan skinned constitute all Asians. Asian Indians do not fit under the "race" mold of classification with Africans. They are in itself, Asian Indians.

I tend to take a detailed approach into the definitions I use, I am not trying to focus on political correctness.

I do not believe that the census is screwy. Definitions of race are not in stasis for sociology and can get updated through time. What was defined as race 5 years ago might not be the same as what it was during the 80's. You can see the census of previous years to get this idea across.

 

[naisho]

This race correctness reminds me of a professor at my alma mater spoke of recently in a NPR interview.

I learned what I currently know off there, I can understand why the controversy over classification continues. I think the best approach is to be detailed as possible or incorporate everyone as the same thing.
Answers To Census' Race Question Changes Over Time : NPR

 

[posts from hell]

So, N....

What does it do when I put in the census DEAF as race?

 

[Reba]

From what I understand in your definition, you likely see it primarily consisting of the five distinct colors.

I used the most distinctly identifiable examples but I don't limit them. Note: "The people who live within the boundaries of a nation are one nationality but they could be several races and combination of races."

Sociologists disagree with the physical skin definition due it being outdated, there is an incorporation of variations subjective to the group, hence not being under one mold. In other words, being white skinned doesn't constitute all of the people who are white. I branched it out. Nor does being tan skinned constitute all Asians. Asian Indians do not fit under the "race" mold of classification with Africans. They are in itself, Asian Indians.

I tend to take a detailed approach into the definitions I use, I am not trying to focus on political correctness.

Maybe you don't focus on political correctness but the Census form developers did. They admitted that they had to make some wording changes because some people found some of those names offensive. Not inaccurate but offensive.

I do not believe that the census is screwy. Definitions of race are not in stasis for sociology and can get updated through time. What was defined as race 5 years ago might not be the same as what it was during the 80's. You can see the census of previous years to get this idea across.

If that's the case, then maybe the whole concept and labeling of races should be tossed out.

Do you understand my point about nationalities?

 

[naisho]

So, N....

What does it do when I put in the census DEAF as race?

No clue, I haven't read how the tally process is done behind the last census.
Standard rule of thumb for poll/survey conduction from what I was taught varies depending on what the study is being done for.

Some PI's (Principal investigators) for a study may invalidate your entry if it doesn't pertain to the question.. you eliminate the invalidated, then with the valid entries you move them into the baseline and those are use for the actual studies. In published journals, you see this number as "n", that is the remaining after the initial, removing invalids.

I used the most distinctly identifiable examples but I don't limit them. Note: "The people who live within the boundaries of a nation are one nationality but they could be several races and combination of races."

Maybe you don't focus on political correctness but the Census form developers did. They admitted that they had to make some wording changes because some people found some of those names offensive. Not inaccurate but offensive.


If that's the case, then maybe the whole concept and labeling of races should be tossed out.

Do you understand my point about nationalities?

Completely.
I see what your reference is towards about when you define a nation, as not all inhabitants of a nation are of the same "biological background". I admit I was focused on trying to define primarily the heritage descendants who defined the cultural aspects.